SGOTM 15 - One Short Straw

Hi guys :)

Unfortunately, I won't be coming back. I've retired from my staff duties recently, and I'm currently just finishing up one pitboss game. Otherwise, the motivation to play Civ has altogether disappeared during my current holiday from it. RL is very intense and I don't think I'll ever have anywhere near the kind of time I committed to this in the past. I only really enjoyed this when I was able to give it a full effort.

Good luck with this game and any future ones. I've really enjoyed being on this team. It was by far the best part of my Civ experience.
 
Thanks for letting us konw, bbp. It's been great playing SGs with you too. Best of luck with all your RL activities!
 
I did a quick estimate of how long befoe Toku will talk when we take Kyoto and I believe it's likely to be 8t or more, so we need to be prepared for various eventualities no matter what.
My point was, it's easier to deal with a Hatty stack at Kyoto+4t than earlyOsaka+8t.
Since they're the ones declaring war; they'll refuse to talk for longer.
One more detail I forgot on when Osaka takes the corn. SInce I assume TOku's going to get BW before we attack him no matter what, if we're lucky he'll get it after teh library is done, but before he gets 10:culture:. That would slow that down by one turn de to his revolt to slavery. So far, I have no problem having 2 axes there on T73, with one axe 3XP, but on T72 I'm still working on. Without the revolt, he gets 10:culture: on T73.

If Toku gets to 10 culture in Osaka, we can forget gifting it back - we lose all tile culture in the 3x3 square around the city, so we won't own the tile next to it for 3-4 turns.
 
I need some help testing this. Could someone figure out a good solution to getting ourChandi library done by T74 or T75 and still getting a reasonable amount of units by then also.

The route with minimal worker-intervention that I can see is:
Send the Marble worker to chop the Chandi-E forest immediately.
When NC hits pop 3, borrow Delhi's hill, and work it for two turns.
On the turn the chop comes in, whip the granary for 1 pop.
When next at size 3, it needs two turns of 2F1H and one of 1F3H from the third citizen to hit size 4 with 60/90 in the Library...
...to whip it for 1 pop on t74, leaving it with 3 citizens already.
 
Thanks for your patience and help, guys. I've now got a reasonably balanced approach, trying to accomplish this:
  • work the corn non-stop till we lose it
  • work all gold and gems mines as much as possible
  • get 2 sci in NC on T74
  • whip Delhi only once more to minimize its unhappiness
  • whip Marble multiple times
  • 6 cats + 8+1 axes asap
  • 2 sci in Delhi asap
The Osaka attack would be later than originally planned. I think that's okay because maintenance costs will be inordinate and we odn't want to bog down. Looking ahead, we have a lot of research to do (Aesthetics, Lit, Poly, MC, CoL, Currency, etc.), so we need to find a nice balance between early warfare, teching, and failed gold accumulation.

------------------

Pre-Play Plan T64-T79

Changes in red
More changes in blue

T64
Delhi: +4f Since Delhi and Marble share food, I'll be notating the MM this way
Marble:+6f

T65
GEL wkr1 chop GEL-NNW
GEL wkr2 farm GEL-S (STOP)
Delhi 2N wkr moves to NC-ENE roads Delhi-1NW (STOP)
Marble-NE wkr farms
Delhi builds a cat
Zlat works the deer camp
Delhi: +8f
Marble: +2f

T66
GEL wkr2 chops GEL-SSW
NC-ENE wkr chops NC-E Delhi-1NW wkr roads NC-ESE (STOP)
Zlat wkr chops Zlat-W
NC works 1f3h I decided to run max hammers (1f3h instead of 2f1h) as much as possible in Delhi. Not really sure if optimal.
Marble City builds a cat
Delhi: +4f
Marble: +6f

T67
NC-ESE wkr chops NC-E
Delhi works 1f3h
GEL works 5f
Delhi: +4f +3f
Marble: +6f

T68
Delhi works 2@1f3h
GEL-NNW wkr roads GEL-E (STOP)
NC 1pops granary + chop
Delhi: +0f
Marble: +8f

T69
GEL-E wkr farms GEL-S
GEL-SSW wkr farms GEL-S
Zlat wkr farms Zlat-S
NC wkr roads NC-NE (keeps chopping)
GEL builds axe
GEL switches from gold mine to 3f1c We get 6f for 3h+7g
Delhi: +3f
Marble: +7f

T70
GEL wkr1 roads GEL-E
GEL wkr2 mines GEL-2W (STOP)
Marble-NE wkr chops Marble-SW
NC wkr chops NC-SW (STOP) NC wkr roads NC-NE
Delhi builds a cat (1-turn prebuild)
GEL builds a cat (1-turn prebuild)
Delhi: +3f (?) My notes are sketchy here and T71 on the Delhi+Marble food allocation.
Marble: max food

T71
GEL-E wkr1 mines GEL-2W (STOP)
GEL-2W wkr2 farms Delhi-SE
NC wkr chops NC-SW (STOP)[/s]
Delhi builds an axe
GEL builds barracks
NC works max food
Marble City 2pops cat
Delhi: +3f
Marble: max food

T72
Research slider to 100%
GEL-2W wkr1 farms Delhi-SE
NC wkr chops NC-S-SW (STOP) (keeps chopping NC-SW
NC works max food
Marble builds a cat
Delhi: +3f
Marble: +7f

T73
NC wkr chops NC-SW
NC works 1f3h
Marble-SW wkr mines Marble-W (STOP)
GEL 2pops barracks
Delhi: +2f
Marble: +9f

T74
Both Delhi-SE wkrs farm Delhi-NE (STOP)
NC wkr chops NC-SSW (STOP)
Marble-W wkr chops Marble-NW
Delhi builds an axe
GEL builds an axe
NC works 2 sci
NC builds a scout warrior (1t) What else to build? Not connected to copper till next turn.
Marble builds an axe
Delhi: +5f
Marble: +5f

T75
Delhi-NE wkr1 chops Delhi-2N
Delhi-NE wkr2 chops Delhi-ENE
NC wkr chops NC-2S (STOP)
Delhi 2pops cat (+chop?)
Gel builds an axe
NC builds an axe

T76
Delhi-2N wkr farms Delhi-NE (STOP)

I stopped taking notes here. Basically, I made sure the hammers lined up to get the rest of the units out as needed. I also forgot to take notes on the Zlat wkr. He farms 1 grass river, then chops one hill, then mines the river hill. I had Zlatorog building a library, because it's going to be wokring the gold mine and a lot of river tiles non-stop.

Please take a look, maybe try it out, and respond asap, if possible. I'd like to play tomorrow to keep things rolling as best as possible.
 

Attachments

  • OSS Test BC-1000 T75 Var 12.CivBeyondSwordSave
    171.6 KB · Views: 25
  • OSS Test BC-0900 T79 Var 12.CivBeyondSwordSave
    177.2 KB · Views: 22
Outstanding questions are
1. WHen to switch research to 100%. T74 when we start wokring 2sci? Wait till Delhi is also working 2 sci?
2. Optimization of 1f3h versus 2f1h in Delhi.
3. Worker turns after about T74.
4. Will we start building cottages anywhere?
 
I studied the Kaku's graphs a bit, to determine whether they Oracled Construction or not. I think not, because I'm pretty sure their culture graph doesn't show a library build between T50 and T60. Looking at their power graph, they then researched Iron Working and are now churning out swordsmen.

THeir power graph went up around the time of their ORacle slingshot enough to account for COnstruction and their current builds could be a mixe of cats and swords, but as noted above, I don't think so.

I think they're going to need 3-4 swords per archer in Kyoto. That's expensive.
 
I stopped taking notes here. Basically, I made sure the hammers lined up to get the rest of the units out as needed. I also forgot to take notes on the Zlat wkr. He farms 1 grass river, then chops one hill, then mines the river hill. I had Zlatorog building a library, because it's going to be wokring the gold mine and a lot of river tiles non-stop.

Please take a look, maybe try it out, and respond asap, if possible. I'd like to play tomorrow to keep things rolling as best as possible.

I don't know what time tomorrow you plan to play.
Looking at the general idea: seems pretty good to me. If there isn't the chance to examine it in detail, then so be it.
I'll have a go at the outstanding questions now, and then look at the detail in 7-8 hours.
 
I don't know what time tomorrow you plan to play.
Looking at the general idea: seems pretty good to me. If there isn't the chance to examine it in detail, then so be it.
I'll have a go at the outstanding questions now, and then look at the detail in 7-8 hours.
I can play any time tomorrow pretty much, so feel free to take some time to look at it, if you have time. This is a pretty important turnset I think, so I'm happy to wait if you or anyone wants me to. Someone might come up with a better way to do any of the pieces in here. I can wait to Wednesday to play as well. Whatever works best for all of us.

EDIT: By asap, I don't mean tonight European time, btw. ;)
 
Outstanding questions are
1. WHen to switch research to 100%. T74 when we start wokring 2sci? Wait till Delhi is also working 2 sci?
2. Optimization of 1f3h versus 2f1h in Delhi.
3. Worker turns after about T74.
4. Will we start building cottages anywhere?

1. I think about T72 is right. We'll get some city capture gold, to push us through the line to Literature.
3. One request is a road to Zlatorog. At some point, we'll need it, possibly sooner rather than later if we do get an effective Hammy dogpile.
4. At this stage, I doubt it. We will have a free revolt to Caste System when the time comes, and I envision merchants en masse working when we need to keep the empire afloat. Captured Pyramids (I'd place a bet on Hammy since he has Stone) would be a handy addition to that.

2. Except where turn-by-turn builds dictate otherwise, my instinct is to go for a 2f1h tile. What Delhi needs most of all is citizens.
 
Four religions have been founded, which means someone has Theology or CoL, most likely Theology. That's really early (2000BC) and I can't see us researching it and building the AP any time soon. To prevent Mahabodhi from winning a AP victory, we may want to keep some AI alive, isolated in a city without Buddhism.
 
Four religions have been founded, which means someone has Theology or CoL, most likely Theology. That's really early (2000BC) and I can't see us researching it and building the AP any time soon. To prevent Mahabodhi from winning a AP victory, we may want to keep some AI alive, isolated in a city without Buddhism.

Aren't they just Buddhism + the three ancient religion techs?
 
Aren't they just Buddhism + the three ancient religion techs?
You're right. I forgot about Buddhism coming for free. Still, I think it's a good idea. Rather than worry too much about getting the AP, we can just isolate an AI of our choosing, rather than killing him off. Preferably one who won't give us too much Motherland unhappiness.
 
You're right. I forgot about Buddhism coming for free. Still, I think it's a good idea. Rather than worry too much about getting the AP, we can just isolate an AI of our choosing, rather than killing him off. Preferably one who won't give us too much Motherland unhappiness.

I suppose that's why "City flipping after conquest" is enabled, to make this harder.
 
Are we forced to accept a flipped city, even if we don't want it and even if it kills off an AI?

We can disband it if we want, but we can't force them to keep it. Even if it kills off an AI.
 
I like your idea of putting the whip anger in Marble, and the food shifting between Delhi and Marble looks spot on for the granary completions.

On t74, I see a couple of options for NC's hammers.
They could go into a warrior (->spearman autoupgrade) to set up a 2-pop whip when it's convenient.
They could go into the Pyramids for a smidgen of failgold.
 
Top Bottom