UU&UB or UU&UU elimination thread

You know I am suprised that no one voteed up for arabia.

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Me too, Arabia has one of the strongest combinations in the game. If not the strongest. But it depends of each one way to play.

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 17
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 14
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 18
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 16
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 21
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 25
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 21
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 22
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21


Babylon: A moderate upgrade to Archers and better Walls? Their UA is amazing, so I guess it was probably inevitable that their UU/UB would be lackluster or worse.

Ottomans: Probably the best pair of uniques at going off at a particular time in the game. When you hit the Renaissance, you will turn into an unstoppable juggernaut. Period.

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 14
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 16
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 20
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 18
Rome: Ballista, Legion 25
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 21
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21


conquistadors are great mounted melee and segue nicely into tercio armies to maintain your momentum.

slingers are okay, but i dont build many archers to begin with generally, i hate the upgrade cost to composites so generally would rather wait for composites before i build. terrace farms are pretty great... if you get some mountains, which too often you don't, or there'll be an annoying sheep on the perfect hill surrounded by 5 mountains..

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 14
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 16
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 21
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 16
Rome: Ballista, Legion 25
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 21
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

The Iroquois works well while it works. Vast forested lands with an ironless UU to take advantage of those tiles. Even discounting the UU, that's well put together.

Polynesia:

UU1: a warrior that reduces the strength of adjacent enemies...but comes at a time when it's pretty worthless to do so.

UU2: None

UB: None

Rooftrellen said:

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 19
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 14
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 16
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 21
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 16
Rome: Ballista, Legion 25
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 21
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

The Iroquois works well while it works. Vast forested lands with an ironless UU to take advantage of those tiles. Even discounting the UU, that's well put together.

Polynesia:

UU1: a warrior that reduces the strength of adjacent enemies...but comes at a time when it's pretty worthless to do so.

UU2: None

UB: None

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Why don't UI count in this thread?

Princeofnigeria said:

Why don't UI count in this thread?

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Because its for UU&UB or UU&UU, according to the thread title.

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 17
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme 20
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 14
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 16
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 21
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 16
Rome: Ballista, Legion 25
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 21
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Had to fix babylon Drawmeus who voted down babylon brought it down to 17 then woodshadows voted and I seen babylon was at 19 probably writing his vote and the other voted when he was writing.

Could I ask the OP to clear this up? Do UI count for the purpouses of this thread, an if bot, why?

I'd imagine they count because because the OP included them.

Rooftrellen said:

Because its for UU&UB or UU&UU, according to the thread title.

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No, the UI definitely count

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 15
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 20
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 14
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 16
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 21
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 16
Rome: Ballista, Legion 25
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 21
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Babylon: The stronger bowman and stronger walls are all fine and well and I'm not against them by any stretch of the imagination but I've never needed them in a game-changing or strategic sense. To explain that, archer to composite bowman has always done me well as have the regular walls up until the castle.

Carthage: Big fan of the early elephant. The feared elephant bonus is important not just for your army on the defense/attack (mostly defense) but it also makes the simple things so much easier: clearing out barb camps. But the better half of the bonus is definitely the great generals II which stays with your UU through every promotion till the end. Love the GGII. The quinquereme is a little more situational but if you neighbor a coastal city-state or civ that you know you want to take out then you can send troops in both on land and by sea and it's so convenient having that option. On archipelago, they are very, very powerful in the early game if you build a barracks and give it the city capture promotion.

Edit: Corrected spelling for quinquereme on the list above

Princeofnigeria said:

Could I ask the OP to clear this up? Do UI count for the purpouses of this thread, an if bot, why?

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Even if it doesn't count, which it does, why shouldn't it? That gives Netherlands, Inca, Mongolia and Polynesia a disadvantage so why even include them in the list in the first place? I don't think OP needs to clear it up, we should vote with the UI in play - it just makes the most sense, especially considering people up till now have been voting with the UI's in mind

Ummm... Mongolia does not have a UI, instead two UU's.

ork75 said:

Ummm... Mongolia does not have a UI, instead two UU's.

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I know, I just didn't bother specifying Unique Great Person which is also not specified in the title - why I included them on that list

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 15
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 18
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 14
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 16
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 21
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 8
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 21
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 16
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 21
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

+Rome: Legions are one of the best UU. It is versatile and dominates the battlefield. Also, it has the humorous road and fort building ability. Ballista are nice complement and work well with legions.

-Denmark: berserkers are good but not great in G&K and Ski Infantry is just a joke. Amphibious promotion and +1 move from berserkers isn't spectacular enough to cover the weakness of SI. Just consider Denmark having 1 UU, no UB and no UI.

woodshadows said:

havent had a chance to use this yet in G&K, i remember playing once an earth map as spain on vanilla and i tried bringing a couple conquistadors from asia over to south america.. they barely arrived the amount of barb ships around attacking them (shouldnt be as much a problem in G&K now that they are extra buffed up while embarked), by the time i got to south america and built two cities well.. it was post astronomy so relatively late in the game and i ended up with two pretty crappy jungle cities.. didnt really contribute positively to my game maybe theyd be better on archipelago or terra though. or maybe ill get an earth map where north america isnt settled.

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In my last game, I was playing Spain, standard map, continents. I beelined to chivalry and built/bought several conquistadors to conquer Babylon that was pretty close to me. After that, conquistadors had nothing to do so I just let them wait on shore to prepare for colonization. When I got astronomy, conquistadors were sent out. They could easily see huge tracts of lands and settled in all nice coastal lands immediately. Those lands included 2 barrier reefs and each providing 4 , 2 , 2 , 4 . It was really great!

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 15
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 20
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 18
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 14
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 16
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 16
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 21
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 6 (-2)
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 22 (+1)
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 16
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 21
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21

Korea - scouting unit, that cannot really scout and siege unit, that cannot really siege. Could the choice be any more obvious?

Maya - most likely the best UB in the game, vialible for all strategy types. UU not much different but also an improvement from the original.

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 15
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 18
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 18
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 14
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 17
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 16
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 21
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 6
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 22
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 16
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 21
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21


Assuming we are counting UI:

Inca: the slinger is a very good barb hunter and scout, and upgrading it keeps it's streangths and eliminates its weakness. Terrace farms are VERY powerful, even without a mountain you'll still make a tile +2 food and +2 production, and have a few mountains and your city will grow rapidly and have great production.

Celts: having no horse killer and an offensive unit up until the medieval era makes the celts VERY vulnerable to horse attacks. The ciedith is good, but not really incredible and comes at an era when happiness is no longer really a problem.

Yeah, I have trouble posting these as I don't really HATE any UU/UB/UI combo. They all have a point and make sense, and taking out the UA makes it harder since I can't say "doesn't combo with the ability well".

Princeofnigeria said:

America: B17, Minuteman 21
Arabia: Camel Archer, Bazaar 20
Austria: Hussar, Coffee House 18
Aztecs: Jaguar, Floating Gardens 21
Babylon: Bowman, Walls of Babylon 15
Byzantium: Cataphract, Dromon 20
Carthage: African Forest Elephant, Quinquereme 21
Celts: Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall 18
China: Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker 21
Denmark: Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry 18
Egypt: War Chariot, Burial Tomb 14
England: Longbowman, Ship of the Line 21
Ethiopia: Mehal Sefari, Stele 22
France: Foreign Legion, Musketeer 20
Germany: Landsknecht, Panzer 18
Greece: Companion Cavalry, Hoplite 16
Huns: Horse Archer, Battering Ram 20
Inca: Slinger, Terrace Farm 17
India: War Elephant, Mughal Fort 16
Iroquois: Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse 21
Japan: Samurai, Zero 12
Korea: Turtle Ship, Hwach'a 6
Maya: Atlatlist, Pyramid 22
Mongolia: Keshik, Khan 21
Netherlands: Sea Beggar, Polder 21
Ottomans: Janissary, Sipahi 20
Persia: Immortal, Satrap's Court 21
Polynesia: Maori Warrior, Moai 16
Rome: Ballista, Legion 26
Russia: Cossack, Krepost 21
Siam: Naresuan’s Elephant, Wat 17
Songhai: Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque 21
Spain: Tercio, Conquistador 23
Sweden: Hakkapeliitta, Carolean 21


Assuming we are counting UI:

Inca: the slinger is a very good barb hunter and scout, and upgrading it keeps it's streangths and eliminates its weakness. Terrace farms are VERY powerful, even without a mountain you'll still make a tile +2 food and +2 production, and have a few mountains and your city will grow rapidly and have great production.

Celts: having no horse killer and an offensive unit up until the medieval era makes the celts VERY vulnerable to horse attacks. The ciedith is good, but not really incredible and comes at an era when happiness is no longer really a problem.

Yeah, I have trouble posting these as I don't really HATE any UU/UB/UI combo. They all have a point and make sense, and taking out the UA makes it harder since I can't say "doesn't combo with the ability well".

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pictish doesnt get mounted bonus?

None. It has no horse bonus to make up for the foreign lands bonus and the faith attacks.