[Speculation] Indonesia/Majapahit/Srivijaya

And maybe Bhayangkara should be Longswordsmen, as Kerises require high smithing skills.

@Aessa, that map really says it all. People tend to forget that it was Majapahit - not Khmer, not Siam - that was the largest empire in Southeast Asian history

The idea of an Indonesian based civ has been growing on me for a while now. I'm to the point where I'll be a bit disappointed if they don't make the cut. It seems to me that they'd fit this expansion perfectly and would also fill a huge geographic gap.

ferretbacon said:

The idea of an Indonesian based civ has been growing on me for a while now. I'm to the point where I'll be a bit disappointed if they don't make the cut. It seems to me that they'd fit this expansion perfectly and would also fill a huge geographic gap.

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A lot of people certainly feel that way. I know the more I've learned about Indonesia, the more I think the developers would have to be insane to miss putting them into the game.

I dreamed about civ today... I was checking Arioch's Civilization Analyst website and found out that Indonesia was shown at PAX East with 3 other civs... I remember seeing their icon, it was Ethiopia Green Backgrund and Siam Yellow Icon. Doesn't make any sense, as the symbol was 4 tiny "+" in a "square", as in:

+ +
+ +

Really weird. Just wanted to share my Indonesian dream with you guys, I hope they get in!

Petiscator said:

I dreamed about civ today... I was checking Arioch's Civilization Analyst website and found out that Indonesia was shown at PAX East with 3 other civs... I remember seeing their icon, it was Ethiopia Green Backgrund and Siam Yellow Icon. Doesn't make any sense, as the symbol was 4 tiny "+" in a "square", as in:

+ +
+ +

Really weird. Just wanted to share my Indonesian dream with you guys, I hope they get in!

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You made me think it was real for a moment.

But maybe it will be real. Who knows.

steveg700 said:

@AessaSH, that's a lot of really great info. I wish you (and others) would participate in the Ideas & Suggestions forum to help put together ideas for new civ's.

Here's an idea I posted over in the "Civ's/Leaders Wanted" thread.
...

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Thanks..
Actually, I've already post my ideas in the "Civ's/Leaders Wanted" thread.. Right now, I'm restraining myself to post there until all of new civs has been revealed..

BTW, nice concepts..
Because of the new BNW mechanics.., IMO, Indonesian civ is more likely to get an UA revolving around naval trade route, to simulate them as the controller of Malacca Strait.. Maybe they will get gold bonus if a naval cargo from the other civ entering their territory..?

Nirosi said:

....And in times of war everyone had carried 3 Kerises.
...

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Ah, I'd read about it somewhere.. When Javanese are going to the battlefield, they will carry 3 krises.. First kris is their own, second is their father possession, and I'm forgot about the third one..
Am I right?

Petiscator said:

I dreamed about civ today... I was checking Arioch's Civilization Analyst website and found out that Indonesia was shown at PAX East with 3 other civs... I remember seeing their icon, it was Ethiopia Green Backgrund and Siam Yellow Icon. Doesn't make any sense, as the symbol was 4 tiny "+" in a "square", as in:

+ +
+ +

Really weird. Just wanted to share my Indonesian dream with you guys, I hope they get in!

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No no no..!!
That is not a dream.., but a prophecy..

===
Now, let's talk about their architecture for the candidate of their UB/UI..
Example :

Javanese (Central of Majapahit Empire - Java Island)

- Candi :
The Hindu and Buddhist temples and sanctuaries of Indonesia, mostly built during the 8th to 15th centuries. However, ancient non-religious structures such as gates, urban ruins, and pool and bathing places are often also called "candi".

Spoiler Picture :

- Pendopo :
A Pendopo or Pendapa is a fundamental element of Javanese architecture; a large pavilion-like structure built on columns. Pendopo are common ritual spaces primarily intended for ceremony, and also for a variety of purposes such as receiving guests in the compounds of wealthy Javanese, held a wayang puppet performance, and even as cottage industry work spaces. They once sheltered the institutions of ancient Javanese kingdoms, such as law courts, clergy, palaces, and for public appearances of the king and his ministers.

Spoiler Picture :

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Sasak (under direct rule of the Majapahit prime Minister, patih Gajah Mada - Lesser Sunda Islands)

- Lumbung :
Pile-built, bonnet-rice barns known as lumbung are the pride of Sasak vernacular architecture. They are built in rows along the easier lower paths of a village. The structures have only one opening, which is a high window into which rice is loaded twice a year.

Spoiler Picture :

Click to expand...

Balinese (under direct rule of the Majapahit prime Minister, patih Gajah Mada - Bali Island)

- Pura :
A pura is a Balinese Hindu temple and the place of worship for the adherents of Balinese Hinduism in Indonesia. There is also have Pura Tirta, "water pura", a type of pura that other than religious function, also have water management function as part of Subak irrigation system. The priests in these temples have authority to manage the water allocation among rice paddies in the villages surrounds the temple.
Subak is the name of water management (irrigation) system for paddy fields on Bali island. On June 2012, Subak has eventually been enlisted as a UNESCO world heritage site.

Spoiler Water Pura and Subak :

Click to expand...

Minangkabau (Pagaruyung Kingdom. Founded by Adityawarman, the cousin of Jayanegara (second king of Majapahit) - Sumatra Island)

- Rumah Gadang :
Rumah gadang (Minangkabau: "big house") are the traditional homes of the Minangkabau, Sumatra. A rumah gadang serves as a residence, a hall for family meetings, and for ceremonial activities. A Minangkabau traditional council hall, appears similar to a rumah gadang. This type of building is used by clan leaders as a meeting place, and it is not enclosed by walls.

Spoiler Picture :

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And many more..
Seriously.., we need more than 1 civ to represent 300+ ethnics with distinct feature from each other..
Well.., it's time to learn how to create a mod..

I'm not Indonesian but Wikipedia says:
1st Keris is your own
2nd the family Keris
and 3rd the Keris of the family of your father-in-law.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Крис

Nirosi said:

steveg700:Good ideas, but I for myself wuld like some mix of trade/culture/religion better.
I like your silat swordasman idea, but maybe it should be Bhayangkara Guard(with the same boni) Cause the used Kerises too.And in times of war everyone had carried 3 Kerises.

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Yeah, the special ability was to reflect the kris blade's vicious wounds.

Nirosi said:

And maybe Bhayangkara should be Longswordsmen, as Kerises require high smithing skills.

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That's a possibility. I made them swordsmen because silat's a pretty old fighting style.

AessaSH said:

Thanks..
Actually, I've already post my ideas in the "Civ's/Leaders Wanted" thread.. Right now, I'm restraining myself to post there until all of new civs has been revealed..

BTW, nice concepts..
Because of the new BNW mechanics.., IMO, Indonesian civ is more likely to get an UA revolving around naval trade route, to simulate them as the controller of Malacca Strait.. Maybe they will get gold bonus if a naval cargo from the other civ entering their territory..?

Click to expand...

Firaxis could've given you some work-for-hire designing this civ. You can take my "wayang theatre" out and repalce it with a pendopo.

I'll be interested to see what they do with trade, and if it's married to Majapahit in some fashion.

Nirosi said:

I'm not Indonesian but Wikipedia says:
1st Keris is your own
2nd the family Keris
and 3rd the Keris of the family of your father-in-law.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Крис

Click to expand...

Ah right.., Wikipedia..

steveg700 said:

Firaxis could've given you some work-for-hire designing this civ. You can take my "wayang theatre" out and repalce it with a pendopo.

I'll be interested to see what they do with trade, and if it's married to Majapahit in some fashion.

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Nah.., better if they hire the one who already in America..
For the example is.., Obama.. He was once living in Indonesia..

===
The next theme is about Maritime SEA's characteristic for their UA (either for UA's name or effect)..

- Bhinneka Tunggal Ika - Unity in Diversity

Bhinneka Tunggal Ika is the official national motto of Indonesia. The phrase is Old Javanese translated as "Unity in Diversity,", articulates the diversity that shapes the country.
It is a quotation from an Old Javanese poem Kakawin Sutasoma, written by Mpu Tantular during the reign of the Majapahit empire. This poem is notable as it promotes tolerance and syncretism between Hindus (Shivaites) and Buddhists.

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- Nusantara - Archipelago | Malay World

Nusantara is an Indonesian word for the Indonesian archipelago. It is originated from Old Javanese and literally means "archipelago". In Malay, Nusantara bears the meaning of Malay World.
The word Nusantara was taken from an oath by Gajah Mada in 1336, as written on an old Javanese manuscript Pararaton and Negarakertagama. Gajah Mada delivered an oath called Palapa Oath, in which he vowed not to eat any food containing spices until he had conquered all of Nusantara under the glory of Majapahit.

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- Mandala - Circle

Mandala is a Sanskrit word that means "circle". The mandala is a model for describing the patterns of diffuse political power distributed among principalities in early Southeast Asian history, when local power was more important.
Southeast Asian polities not conform to Chinese and European views of a territorially defined state with fixed borders and a bureaucratic apparatus, but they diverged considerably in the opposite direction: the polity was defined by its centre rather than its boundaries, and it could be composed of numerous other tributary polities without undergoing administrative integration.

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- Strait of Malacca

Dominating the Malacca and Sunda straits, Srivijaya controlled both the spice route traffic and local trade, charging a toll on passing ships. Serving as an entrepôt for Chinese, Malay, and Indian markets, the port of Palembang, accessible from the coast by way of a river, accumulated great wealth. Envoys travelled to and from China frequently.

Click to expand...

- Spice Islands

The great prosperity of Majapahit was probably due to two factors. Firstly, the northeast lowlands of Java were suitable for rice cultivation, and during Majapahit's prime numerous irrigation projects were undertaken, some with government assistance.
Secondly, Majapahit's ports on the north coast were probably significant stations along the route to obtain the spices of Maluku, and as the spices passed through Java they would have provided an important source of income for Majapahit.

Click to expand...

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So, we are already talked about Indonesian colors, symbol, leader, UU/UGP, UB/UI, and UU..
If Firaxis was unable to create any civ from Maritime SEA because lack of material.., then I will cry on my moms lap..

Louis XXIV said:

Tribhuwana would be a good choice - especially since they want female leaders.

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i agree. She's probably going to be in if Indonesia gets picked.

anyways my guess is pretty much the same as everyone else. Indoneisa seems likely because they are frequently requested and fit the theme of this expansion. If anything they should get a bonus for trade and be much better at spreading culture and religion through trade routes.

How about a UA that reflects Indonesia as really good at being colonized ?

Scaramanga said:

How about a UA that reflects Indonesia as really good at being colonized ?

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"Should your city be captured, that enemy will gain a huge amount of golds."
If that the case.. Then I will love to build my capital beside them..

But seriously.., it's sounded like Indonesian civs is not worth being added in the game bcoz they are have been colonized..

Many nations were colonized by Europe:India,Burma,Cambodia,Vietnam.
Indonesia was overrun by Europe because they were divided in many kingdoms at that time, if the Majapahit Empire was still around by that time, they would have repelled any colonization attempt.
They definitely deserve to be a full fledged civilization in this game.

the keris is a dagger, not sword. So why not give them a unique scout instead, which can fight well and embark. It will surely give them an edge at water maps. Maybe even can be upgraded to swordsman as well

Syailendra said:

the keris is a dagger, not sword. So why not give them a unique scout instead, which can fight well and embark. It will surely give them an edge at water maps. Maybe even can be upgraded to swordsman as well

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Well.. Many UUs is tend to reflecting the power of their civ's golden era..
So.., I'm not be suprised if someone else treat the kris user equal to swordsman (Classical Srivijaya) or Longswordsman (Medieval Majapahit).., and also know that kris is not a sword..

But, having a scout who can kill a barbarian brute is also acceptable and might be fun too..

There were actually very long Kerises too( 70cm )And Kerises were "invented" in 12-3 century, so it's more Majapahit than Srivijaya.

Nirosi said:

There were actually very long Kerises too( 70cm )And Kerises were "invented" in 12-3 century, so it's more Majapahit than Srivijaya.

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But, but.., they have a proto-kris depicted on Srivijayan Borobudur bas-relief..

Although.., yeah you right, nowadays krises is heritage of Majapahit era..

as an Indonesian i prefer Majapahit as the civ not "Indonesia" since it's the best dynasty on top of all others that we had. Based on history I've learned in school Majapahit reach the Golden Ages when it was ruled by King Hayam Wuruk with Gajah Mada as the prime minister and mentor (search Hayam Wuruk in google for more). From what i learned Gajah Mada were the one that leads Majapahit into the golden age (he did all the job mostly). Although he is not the king but he has major political power in Majapahit monarch, as he is the part of it. The fact Majapahit grew big because they conquer the strategic island for trade route from malaysia-sumatra-java, most naval traveler from east to west or west to east had to cross our border to reach others, same like Singapore nowadays being international port so.... actually in my opinion

Leader: Prime Minister Majapahit
UU's : (related to naval trade routes) maybe extra bonus on naval cargo or gain gold for open border
UB's : Candi (actually it just ordinary temple if u guys want to know, just like a Buddhist temple except we have exotic touch add inside) so + tourist attraction meanwhile generate faith + gold if possibly

and..

I don't think any UA atm, idk why but in history i found out our military damn sucks. In history we fought dutch muskets with bamboo spearman gosh.... epic fail, leads to 350 years of colonization. (we should've invest more in military tech)

As for "Kris", it's just an artifact. It's a dagger imbued with magic incantation, even now some locals still believe there's a power so idk how to put this into CIV gameplay maybe firaxis could add magic strength or smthn lol...

But seriously Majapahit actually more like combination of Carthage n Celts with lesser military power. It's like religious maritime nation.

It should be a religious+commerce naval civ... since we have kamehameha as cultural-naval civ

Last thing, we have hundreds of ethnics across county, multicultural yet we live as one.. so the best suit theme is Bhinneka Tunggal Ika same as E Pluribus Unum.