[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

i would like to comment on another thing as well, and is about difficulty when playing FFH2

i don't know if i'm the only one that feels this way, but i find much easier to win the game when playing FFH2 than when playing vanilla or other mods

it's just a conjecture, but one thing that comes to my mind is that it may be that the different civilizations can be so specialized and different from each other, that as human player, you go directly for the good technologies for your civ, to get the best units and buildings, meanwhile AI plays more balanced and builds and researches a bit of everything

is anyone feeling that way as well? i have no idea if AI can be improved through modding, but at least might be interesting to add at least higher difficulty levels as with some mods from Civ3 or something like that?

cheers

Vicentiko...

What version are you using?

-I agree Vampire specialists seem a little weak in comparison, but only if you manage to put out a couple of specialist enhancing Wonders... otherwise they are an okay general specialist.

- Any spellcasting should prevent the unit from doing anything but move(or sentry, sleep, guard, whatever). Thats true of any unit(at least in .14), and intended... does it make sense that you should be able to cast a spell and go on a physically demanding attack immediately after?

- I haven't seen any wierd mixup in order of diplomatic texts myself... if anyone else has, the team may want to look at it.. dunno.

As far as the challenge goes. I still think FFh2 is tougher than vanilla(though it has been a long time since I played vanilla.. since FFh1 .7 I think came out). I have gotten more familiar with FFH2 so I know that has made it easier, but even so.
I know the Team is working on AI improvements constantly, and I guess this and the spellcasting thing is why I asked about your current version.. it seems to me in the latest release with the tech tree updates the AIs do tend to specialize paths a bit more.. I am sure some refinement could be worked on.. but otherwise things look okay on that end to me.

Cheers!

as far as i know i'm using the last version with civ 1.61 so i don't think it's this kind of problem

of course, you may be right regarding of spell casting and attacking on the same turn may or may not make sense, but that's not my point

but what i mean is it should be the same way with all the units, for example, the unit that replaces axeman with the order of blood (i don't remember the name, emoi or something like that? strengh 4) can get enraged, and afterwards attack (otherwise it would die for nothing), with the vampire, would make sense as well that he can haste and attack afterwards, otherwise, what's the point of hasting

and talking about this 4 strength unit, it is supposed to die ALWAYS after enraging himself? i mean, once, in a stack of units that got the regeneration ability from a vampire, i enraged the unit and killed a couple of poor tasuke horsemen, the turn after, the unit was still alive with 0.0 strength!!!

it's that a bug? means that sometimes the enraged unit just survives by chance? or it's actually that the combination of regeneration with these units are a killer combo?

don't get me wrong, i love the mod, more than vanilla civ, and i cannot stop playing it!!, i just comment on things that i find i don't totally get, maybe just because i still miss some things on this mod

Hi all,

I don't think that FfH2 is easier than vanilla. It rather depends on your level difficulty, on what civs are your opponents, on the civ you are playing,...
For exemple, i never made a cultural victory (even with balseraph or Ethnee ) on FfH2 whereas it was my easiest way of wining in vanilla. Why ? I still don't know, it's probably more militaristic...
When you are playing against Hyborem or Clans, they quickly expand ( they begin at peace with barbs). It may strongly disturb your growth...
If you play with raging barb on Prince+ level (like me) , the challenge is big. A quick expand destroy your economy (and lower your research) and make your empire difficult to protect. On the other hand, you have to expand to take the more ressources, land, strategic key points,...and to earn victory points... So, what is the best way ?

OMI, FfH2 is a totaly different gameplay from vanilla. It's neither easier or difficult, just different.

To conclude, Kael and his disciples are making an impressive job Even if not finished, FfH2 is playable, fun and one of the best mod i ever played (if not the best).
Now i'm waiting for tomorrow....and the next version 0.14.

Just one mistake: no Lizardmen civ....

The Frog.

Bright day
Vicentiko- the difficulty level in FfH is very tied to barbarians as there is no limit on experience you can get from them, and on the other hand few giants, spiders, bears and Orthus and the game can be restarted. So if you survive the first 200-300 turns I find it easier than vanilla, but those truns are harder.

not sure if this was already noted, but I found a neat trick (error) with the "charm" mind spell. If you take only two "adepts" or civ equivalent with a large stack of troops, first cast the spell with one adept that's seperate from the herd, and then have all others selected while the adept's spell/unit is in view, and you can cast the "charm" spell infinetely, ONTOP of that, it will also 'cause the units of the city (or any location) to simply disappear. If not done like this, the spell fades out and you can't use it until next turn, and/or, it was resisted or simply done "correctly" meaning the unit is now charmed and won't attack. This little clitch has made it very easy in attacking cities, and the AI appears unaware of the ability. So, I make sure I build mind mana immediately Will this be corrected in .14? if not that's ok, still makes raiding the cities easy

@Gladi

that makes sense to me, i'm playing at immortal level, usually on small maps with 8 civs, so there's no much space for barbs (i've never seen orthus yet, and the red dragon just a couple of times) i always build up a nice army at the beginning and i focus on attacking neighbours rather that taking care of barbs (AI does it better than me) , and although i'm always more or less equal on technologies with the AI, conquering AI cities it's pretty easy

Gladi said:

Bright day
Vicentiko- the difficulty level in FfH is very tied to barbarians as there is no limit on experience you can get from them,

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I think you can only get 100 experience points from fighting barbarians IIRC.

Bad Player said:

I think you can only get 100 experience points from fighting barbarians IIRC.

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Right, and you are reaching that all the time.

lamotti said:

not sure if this was already noted, but I found a neat trick (error) with the "charm" mind spell. If you take only two "adepts" or civ equivalent with a large stack of troops, first cast the spell with one adept that's seperate from the herd, and then have all others selected while the adept's spell/unit is in view, and you can cast the "charm" spell infinetely, ONTOP of that, it will also 'cause the units of the city (or any location) to simply disappear. If not done like this, the spell fades out and you can't use it until next turn, and/or, it was resisted or simply done "correctly" meaning the unit is now charmed and won't attack. This little clitch has made it very easy in attacking cities, and the AI appears unaware of the ability. So, I make sure I build mind mana immediately Will this be corrected in .14? if not that's ok, still makes raiding the cities easy

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Its definitly not intended and I dont know if it will be addessed in 0.14 or not (Talchas changed some spell code but I dont know if it will effect this).

If it still happens in 0.14 we will try to get it addressed so you dont accidently kill enemy units. If you want to do it intentionally the worldbuilder is an easier way to do it.

Wow. Simply wow. I've never played Fall from Heaven before, but now I'm glad I downloaded it. The graphics and units are so beautifully done, and the features are absolutely genius. Even when I lose battles I'm proud that I could lose so gloriously. My Dwarf Army wandered into an ancient forest and an Ent came out and killed them all. Also, I thought Michael Jackson's picture representing Freak Show was a nice touch.

Amazing mod! I really enjoyed it. This is going to renew my Civ addiction manyfold.

puglover said:

Wow. Simply wow. I've never played Fall from Heaven before, but now I'm glad I downloaded it. The graphics and units are so beautifully done, and the features are absolutely genius. Even when I lose battles I'm proud that I could lose so gloriously. My Dwarf Army wandered into an ancient forest and an Ent came out and killed them all. Also, I thought Michael Jackson's picture representing Freak Show was a nice touch.

Amazing mod! I really enjoyed it. This is going to renew my Civ addiction manyfold.

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I agree, 100%.

The new version (0.14) is up a day early. Have fun!

Kael said:

The new version (0.14) is up a day early. Have fun!

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Holy..!
Christmas come early. Hip hip huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah!

*downloads!*

Cheers!

When a building says + 1 happiness from X does that mean X has to be in the city radius or a resource of the empire?

When you build building that give + 50% to trade, does a resource have to be in the city radius and does that resource have to be traded on the diplomacy screen?

When a building says + 1 happiness from X does that mean X has to be in the city radius or a resource of the empire?

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Resource of the empire

When you build building that give + 50% to trade, does a resource have to be in the city radius and does that resource have to be traded on the diplomacy screen?

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No. It only affects the generic gold-traderoutes, no resources are involved.

Hello-

I've downloaded .14 & started a game as Keelyn. In addition to my sincere request for a white flag fix for .14 (the other apparently only works for .13), I am sad to report a CTD on my 2nd turn. Having read the posts in the in the changelog I see another has had the same problem. I love the sound of the changes & would love to play them. I am a patient man & will gladly continue playing .13 in the mean time.

Thanks,
Seamus

BUG: When playing .14, i got the Mind Stapling for slavery, and when my unit won the fight , it says and shows a picture of a captured slave, BUT nothing is there, just the unit of mine that won??

EDIT: Also when i overtook a barbarian town with workers in it, none of them were left there, just the empty town?

Hello-
Me again. During my very long absence from CIV IV, and sadly FfH, I gave quite a bit of thought to the rather static religious foundations in the game. And with the greater development of religions in FfH2 I'd like to give what I think to be a rather novel (and hopefully employable) alternate option for the specific sect foundations.

Since the MOD is based upon the religions and the ultimate goal of the game (as I have perceived it to be) is the supremacy of one or the other it is my belief that religion should be a gift sought out be the player and in turn gifted to them. Instead of racing toward a specific religion via tech research I think each of the religions should be given a set of goals that the player must attain in order to found that particular religion.

Here's my thoughts:

OCTOPUS OVERLORDS
Instead of merely reseraching Message from the Deep to attain the holy city & found the Octopus Overlords - a player should have to actively explore the seas & eventually encounter a great Kraken of some sort, defeat it & return the resulting GP to a coastal city. My thinking behind this is two fold:
1. If you want the perks of the O.O. than go out & immerse yourself in the realm of the O.O. - control the seas!
2. How can one's mind be corrupted by the sea-dwelling overlords if the cities are not anywhere near the sea?

FELLOWSHIP of LEAVES & RUNES of KILMORPH
As the Fellowship of Leaves is framed in the imagery, and general feeling of the Elves, and the Runes of Kilmorph equally steeped in a Dwarven feel, than they should only be able to be founded by an Elven civ or Dwarven civ respectively. But it isn't merely good enough to be Elven or Dwarven. You must prove that your piety & religiousity is great enough to be worthy of the gifts of the particular religions. Perhaps make it so the first Elven civ who builds a certain number of pagan temples will found the Fellowship, or perhaps the first Dwarven civ to create a great prophet will found the Runes.

ASHEN VEIL & THE ORDER
Okay these religions are not race specific, but are however very much alignment specific. The Veil should only be attainable to Evil civs or Neutral civs(foundation of course would convert them completely to the dark side) - conversely The Order should only be available to Good or Neutral civs(converting them to good after foundation). Since these are late game religions their foundation would have to come about via a demonstration of specific proclivities (AV-science/TO-culture) rather than by exploration of some kind. Perhaps set a requirement that a certain number of Great Academies need to be built or a certain level of culture must be met - with building requirements of some kind. Again my idea is that it makes sense that if the Veil values scientific research (and if contact with Demons was made through the Void during such activity) than a civ should have to actually live by the values of the religion before it can be founded. If the Order is based on dogmatic persuasion & conversion than a civ should have to act accordingly.

THE CULT...
This one throws me. I don't know too much about it, and the fact that only two civs can found it -ehh I just don't know.

My ideas are based on a desire to avoid the static introduction of religions into the game. There is a definate flow and order to the foundations that I think after a few dozen games begins to loose something. Reworking the foundations as stated would allow for variety in chronology as well as quantity. After all say no one demonstrates the scientific or cultural requirement for the Veil or Order than there is no Veil or Order in the game. Say a barb ship defeats the Great Kraken - than there is no Overlords.
It just seems odd to be playing as the Elohim and, because I got there first, to found the Ashen Veil.

In closing I have to say if you decide these ideas are crap - thats cool the MOD still kicks ass as is! I'm just throwing out some thoughts here.

Thanks,
Seamus

Gladi said:

Right, and you are reaching that all the time.

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I play against raging barbs so yes I do!