Never-Before-Seen Civilizations

I’ve recently revised my list of “Civ-worthy,” never-before seen Civ candidates and wanted to get some feedback. Which of these do you consider worthy to include in a Civ game, and why? If you voted “Other,” please specify. Given Firaxis' proclivity for including new civilizations in each iteration of the Civilization franchise, I think we can expect to see at least one or two of these new faces in the upcoming months.

Note: As this is a serious discussion, please do your best to keep the conversation civil.

Here’s a more detailed list of the candidates and the reasons why they were selected.

The Assyrians
Leader: Ashurbanipal (685-627 BC)
One of the greatest powers of the ancient world. The Assyrian Empire preceded the Babylonian and Persian Empires in its total domination of the Near East. In addition to their military achievements, the Assyrians were renowned for the highly refined culture, including their literature and astronomy, sculptures, gardens and vast libraries.

The Hebrews
Leader: Solomon (c. 1011-931 BC)
The forefathers of three great world religions, the Hebrews’ legacy is unending. After their conquest of Canaan, the Hebrews created an empire under David and Solomon that stretched from the Euphrates to the Arabian Desert. Though subjugated by numerous enemies throughout their long history, Hebrew culture even survived a long Diaspora, producing some of history’s greatest scientists and philosophers.

The Indonesians
Leader: Hayam Wuruk (AD 1334-1389) or Gajah Mada (d. AD 1364)
One of the world’s most populous countries, Indonesia has a long and diverse history. Indonesia has been home to many empires throughout the centuries, including the Sailendra, Srivijaya and Majapahit. Each of these great maritime dynasties proved in its turn to be powerful in every sense: culturally, economically, and militarily. Indonesia is even home to a true wonder of the world, the immense Buddhist monument of Borobudur.

The Minoans
Leader: Minos (c. 1800 BC?)
Europe’s earliest known civilization, the Minoans flourished for other a thousand years. From their island home on Crete, Minoan culture spread across the Mediterranean world. Their technology was shockingly advanced for their time, including running water and sewers, and amazing palatial architecture. Their demise has made them even more famous than their former glory, for the Minoans may have even given birth to the myth of Atlantis.

The Moors
Leader: Yaqub al-Mansur (AD 1160-1199)
Moorish civilization is a conglomeration of Berber, Arabic and Subsaharan African elements, culminating in some of the most powerful medieval empires: the Almoravids and Almohads. Moorish art and architecture is legendary and continues to be emulated in the present day. At their pinnacle, Moorish domains stretched from northern Spain all the way to Mali.

The Nubians
Leader: Taharqa (c. 725-664 BC)
Nubia is perhaps one of the most underappreciated world civilizations, the home to the ancient kingdoms of Napata, Kerma, Meroë, and most famously, Kush. Long admirers of their Egyptian neighbors, Nubian kings built their own unique pyramids and eventually came to conquer Egypt itself and challenge Assyria for domination of the Near East.

The Phoenicians
Leader: Pygmalion (c. 845-785 BC)
Phoenician civilization was arguably the greatest maritime culture of the ancient world. Originating among the early Canaanite peoples of the Levant, the Phoenicians grew to financially dominate the Mediterranean world. Their monopoly on Lebanese cedar and murex dye made them pivotal traders. The Phoenicians founded hundreds of colonies, stretching all the way to Spain. They also created one of the earliest alphabets, an ancestor of modern Latin script.

The Tibetans
Leader: Songtsän Gampo (c. AD 605-649)
The unique culture of Tibet has thrived in the Hamalyan mountains for centuries. In their heyday, the Tibetan Empire rivaled imperial China. Despite their remote location, the Tibetans thrived and built monumental architecture, such as the epic Potala Palace of Lhasa. The remarkable Buddhist culture they nurtured continues to be influential in the present day, not to mention inspiring the mystical legend of Shangri-La.

The Vietnamese
Leader: Le Loi (c. AD 1384-1433)
Although dominated by their northern Chinese neighbors for part of their history, Vietnam has continued to flourish. The medieval kingdom of Dai Viet ushered in Vietnam’s golden age, producing great works of art and culture. They are a great example of an historical underdog that not only succeeded in rebelling against a greater power, but actually thrived.

Honorable Mention: The Congolese
Leader: Lukena lua Nimi (c. AD 1380-1420)
I remain uncertain on the inclusion of the Congolese, but they nevertheless possess a fascinating history and culture. The medieval Kongo Empire governed a huge territory in central Africa, resisting European domination for centuries.

Honorable Mention: The Olmecs
Leader: ???
The Olmec civilization definitely deserves a place in the game, however we know so little about them that their inclusion is not likely. The Olmecs created the first known written language in the New World, as well as fabulous art and architecture. They were the progenitors of the famous Mesoamerican ball game, and the creators of iconic giant stone heads.

Assyria and Poland

i went with the hebrews, indonesians and other. hebrews would probably be best for a city-state called jerusalem, but i wouldn't mind them being in as a full civilization. indonesia's fairly unique and same with kongo, my pick for other. i'd also make an honorable mention for zimbabwe because even though they're not as famous as the zulu, they were actually a regional power when they were powerful.

I voted other, mainly because I think it is high time that civ does a Brazilian civ. Brazil is an ex-colonial state, just like America, and is developing to be the main South American nation. I think that it's high time South America gets a civ that reached the modern era.

Mississippi -- Greatest culture in early North America

Mississippians still have problem in that much of their history is lost to time. We know of no leader or city or really much of their history.

Assyrians, Hebrews/Israelites/Judeans, Indonesia/Majahapit, Moors/Almohavids.

For other:
Venice
Hopi

Civ 5 could definitely use some Polish.

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oh god I crack me up

Mercenary82: Still haven't made up my mind about Poland.

awesome: I mostly agree with you. The only problem with Great Zimbabwe is that we just don't know enough about them. We need a well-known leader, a city list, and a unique unit. As it is, they're basically city-state material.

D712: I partially agree. I do think Latin America is worthy of representation, but I have yet to see a satisfactory suggestion on exactly how to incorporate them. It doesn't seem fair to single out any one Latin American nation as more worthy than the others, considering the relative newness of their shared culture on the global scene, and a conglomerate "Latin American" civ just sounds icky.

seasnake: Same problem with the Mississippian mound-builders as with Zimbabwe as mentioned above. Not enough info for a leader and unit, unfortunately. I've been to Cahokia before and was quite awestruck. Wish there was a way to incorporate them.

Louis XXIV: Mostly agree. Good point on the Mississippians. Venice seems more like city-state material to me, unless part of a greater "Italian" civ (but then there would be lots of Roman overlap). The Hopi/Puebloans/(and Anasazi?) could be feasible. I'd be interested in seeing a more detailed proposal for them.

baldfalk: Yeah, mixed feelings on Poland.

Also, I'd just like to remind everybody that you can vote for more than one option on this poll.

baldfalk said:

Civ 5 could definitely use some Polish.

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oh god I crack me up

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i see what you did there.

Aussie Aussie Aussie, oy oy oy

Alezander01 said:

Louis XXIV: Mostly agree. Good point on the Mississippians. Venice seems more like city-state material to me, unless part of a greater "Italian" civ (but then there would be lots of Roman overlap).

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I picked Venice for a couple of reasons. One, it's the most unique from Rome. It wasn't really a noteworthy city at all during the Roman Empire. It rose to prominence as part of the Eastern (Byzantine) Empire, but it was almost always essentially independent. It had a Mediterranean empire along the Adriatic Coast, into parts of Greece, and Crete. In other words, it was far more than something like Florence, which controlled a portion of mainland Italy and that's it. Venice also was extraordinarily wealthy and had a powerful navy. When it came to Renaissance powers, it competed with France, Spain, and the Ottoman Empire. Its focus was abroad, not mainland Italy and City-State squabbles.

The Hopi/Puebloans/(and Anasazi?) could be feasible. I'd be interested in seeing a more detailed proposal for them.

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Anasazi has the same problem as the Mississippians. Architecturally interesting, but not a lot of concrete info. Their descendants are the modern Pueblo Peoples, though.

Pueblo could work instead of Hopi (Hopi was one of many Pueblo tribes, although I think there were language/ethnic differences that I probably should know the distinction between before I start talking like I know things).

How about this:
Puebloans
Leader: Popé (1630-1688) - leader of the Pueblo revolt
This isn't a comprehensive argument, but the Pueblo have a unique culture and style when it comes to Native Tribes. They had complex, organized societies centered around essentially strongly fortified villages (Mesas). They were the first native tribe to successfully revolt against European colonists, driving the Spanish away for 12 years. Even after Spanish reconquest, Spanish rule was met by constant resistance and they were granted a great deal of autonomy. If I'm not mistaken, their reservation today is in the same area.

Poland
Led by Casimir
UU: Uhlan (Replaces Lancer, has +4 Strength)
UB: Folwark (Replace Folwark, stores 60% Food)

Austria
Led by Franz Joseph
UU: Grenzer (Replaces Rifleman, +2 Strength, Can traverse Hills as if they were Grasslands)
UU: Hussar (Replaces Lancer, +2 Strength, +1 Move)

The Manchus
Led by Kangxi
UU: Manchu Horseman (Replaces Knight, +2 Strength)
UU: Qing Rifleman (Replace Rifleman, +3 Strength)

Cuba
Led by Jose Marti
UU: Mambise (Replaces Cavalry, Can traverse Jungle and Hills as if they were Grassland)
UB: Club Tropicana (Replaces Opera House, -2 Maintenance, +1 Happy)

snoochems: I don't think Australia would work. Comes across more as a modern nation state, and we already have two English-speaking civs as it is.

Louis XXIV: A Pueblo/Hopi/Anasazi seems like a possibility. I'll have to give it some more thought. I'm still unconvinced on Venice, though I understand your reasons for suggesting them. They were an important political entity for quite a while.

Dumanios: Where to begin? I'm still unsure on Poland. Austria fits in under the German civ, which is meant to represent all the major Germanic permutations, not just the Second Reich. (Maria Theresa was even a leader for the German civ in Civ2.) I think the Manchus fit more under China, since they only came to prominence after conquering them. Not a big Cuba fan for civ.

Gaels
Leader: Brian Boru
UU: Gureilla Soldier
UU: Pict
UA: Underdog: Bonus when fighting Civ with larger army.

The Phoenicians would be my first choice, even over Korea and the Netherlands. After all, they controlled what would be Carthage and were the first to span the Mediterranean with colonies, settling on three continents.

I think the Assyrians would be a better choice than the Babylonians, so I put them down- they conquered more land. Although, I don't think they both should be in.

The Nubians have been another strong choice of mine. However, I have three other African civs I'd want before that- Carthage (except if Phonecia's in), Zulu, and Ethiopia.

Skwink Caesar: The Gaels definitely fit in under the Celts.

Save Ferris: Carthage, Zulus and Ethiopia have all already been in Civ and very likely will be again. So not too worried about them. The point of this thread was to focus on those civs that have yet to make it in.

I'm not sure what's the point of the Moors, with the major overlap with the Arabian Empire. Yes, they were a pretty important entity, but eh, I still couldn't see the justification for it.

I do think that the Hebrews, and the Poles require some representation. It'd be a nice addition

commanderkai: The point of the Moors is the inclusion of another African civ, one that had a huge empire (see here), and epic art and architecture. They may be similar to the Arabs because of shared religion, but I view that more as a similarity than an exact copy--more like Greece and Rome really.

bulgaria could be interesting as a civilization, but they'd probably be better just in a scenario.
and i'd really like to say inuits should be in the game, but the only person i can really think of to be the leader head is paul okalik, who has the two disadvantages of being still alive and unknown to the point where i had to google "famous inuits" to even get a name.

awesome: Right, those would probably be too obscure.