End of Empires - N3S III

I disagree that this is *always* true. Look at the conversion of Persia from Zoroastrianism to Islam, for example. It has been true more often than not but is not necessarily the case. Especially when the domestic religion itself has experienced significant setbacks in recent decades, like the traditional Dulama religion (abandonment of the religion by the Dulama Empire, even well before its loss of its original territories, repeated defeat of religiously motivated revolts by Dula, etc.)

thus the word "almost" in my post.

Just to clarify though, my line of thought goes along the lines that that the Vithanana have now been separated from their core homelands, and so unlike say the Caliphate its very much a tiny isolated group in the midst of a vast and ancient culture. This is a natural situation where cultural assimilation is likely. As to your point on the Dulama religion, you are of course right that it was ditched by the old Empire, but the fact still remains that the part of the Empire that the Vithana conquered happens to be the greater whole of the part where the old religion was kept. Also, I must note Machaianism is present (along with Iralliam and Aitahism, although these two are, like Ardavan, tiny minorities) and strong in the Vithanana, and connected to a powerful heartland, if not Dulama religion there is a good chance they could end up following that faith.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, the fall of the Dulama Empire could actually be a force for renewal for the traditional Dulama religion, since the blame for the diminution of Empire could fall on its rejection of the Dulama faith. At the same time the traditional Dulama religion could also serve as a powerful legitimising force for the new overlords, doubly so if the occasion strengthens the Dulama faith, which could encourage a similar phenomenon as we saw in the Kothari Exatai.
 
All this dialogue is teaching me a lot about this NES faiths, which is very good, since I've always been "vague" in this matter, and I have not given deserved attention to this matter. About that refers to Jipha, this land is part of the rest of the continent, but it is right at the tip, ie, as is the case of the Balkans: Greece is Jipha, which is different from the nations to the north, as the Holy Moti Empire, culturally, from what I know. We have a close, but we have differences. But a new religious fervor from the church would not be unjustified. It is as if there were pagans under the nose of the Patriarch. However, I find it all exciting.
 
Hightower said:
No violent schism, anyway, of the sort that birthed the Catholic-Protestant or Sunni-Shia splits. But the drift apart between Catholicism and Orthodoxy was also slow and steady (and much less extreme in a purely doctrinal sense), and the same for Mahayana and Theravada.
Hi,

Please stop telling me how what the fictional faith, I created, ought to work. Furthermore, stop making comparisons between Aitahism and real world religions. If NK and I can't find a good analogue, I don't see how you can either. :)
 
Hi,

Please stop telling me how what the fictional faith, I created, ought to work. Furthermore, stop making comparisons between Aitahism and real world religions. If NK and I can't find a good analogue, I don't see how you can either. :)

Eh, he wasn't questioning how Aitahism ought to work, he was commenting on how one might define the nature of the separation between the various branches of Aitahism, an entirely peripheral matter. (The Theravada/Mahayana reference actually seems apt to me, going from what you said about doctrinal difference in the absence of ecclesiastical structures, but then again perhaps you would like to enlighten us about this matter relating to the faith you created to put to bed the speculation instead of merely stating the non-existence of certain states of being [which I accept, afterall Im not the aitahist authority here] and telling Hightower to refrain from commentary)

If you want to see some real questioning of how a fictional religion ought to work, you only need to go back a page or two.
 
Hi,

Please stop telling me how what the fictional faith, I created, ought to work. Furthermore, stop making comparisons between Aitahism and real world religions. If NK and I can't find a good analogue, I don't see how you can either. :)

I didn't say anything about how the faith ought to work. Stop being nasty, overly protective and unnecessarily hostile.

My point was that Aitahism has had a clear divergence in dogma between different groups (NK himself even calls Eastern Aitahism closer to Maninism than Orthodox Aitahism), and that such divergences resulting in clearly separate sects can also arise naturally, organically and slowly within religions rather than through violent, one-time schisms, as they did between Mahayana and Theravada and between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. You can't contest either of those points at all.
 
A Song of Únnáhá


A story may bring light upon
the sea and beast that guide you on:
The crow and fowl,
sky-goat and cow.
They took from she, Moráná sea.

Spirits sprung from earth do flow to
all things that you see before you.
Though each does get
apportionment
they took from she, Moráná sea.

Moráná took unending share,
the creatures saw it nigh unfair.
A plot, a scheme,
each took a stream;
they took from she, Moráná sea.

Each beast indulged to full delight
which dried each stream within the night.
Beasts now fattened,
land made barren,
they took from she, Moráná sea.

With power now the beasts took flight;
and guided men into the night.
Upon the prow,
they were endowed.
They took from she, Moráná sea.
 
It's a pretty straightforward process, but I'm going to update before I go recommending things to new players. There's roughly four people (justokre, Tsoate, Ophorian, and Tambien) interested right now? But there should be enough open spots next turn to accommodate; just wait for the update (hopefully tomorrow), and see which countries you might like. :)
 
Spoiler I got a back up plan to the back up plan to back up the back up plan :
EoE (N3S)

Castani (adj. Castanian)
http://i.imgur.com/F9NTDe6.jpg (live inside red circle)
Society: Theocratic society. The main religious figures rule the nation, with wealth dividing those not in religious positions.
Lineage: Patriarchy
Values: Religion and family are valued above everything. Whatever nation the people belong to comes third, as religion and nation are tied directly. The Castani are taught from a young age to put the family before themselves.
Religion: The dominant religion among the Castani is Ca'anoi, a polytheistic religion with three sects. The three sects-Islander, Coastal, and Mainland, vary among their mythology, although they share gods.
Language: Casta'lai (the language of the Castani). There are small variations among nations and regions, but the language is practically the same.
Mythos:
-Masoku: the sect of predominant in the small islands. The creation myth is based upon the god of the sea, Makai, who was alone in the world with only his fish as his company. He created people in his likeness and land for them to be on, thereby creating the world.
-Tasamu: the mainland sect of Ca'anoi. Tasamu has a similar story, but claims that all the world was once only land, trees, water, and sky. The god of all gods, Tasa'i, was lonely, and crafted a family out of the sand for himself. This family came to life, and became his fellow gods and goddesses. The gods then created people, animals, and many more things to show their appreciation for the world.
-Pala'ui: the sect of Ca'anoi that dominates the coastal region. This sect takes a different approach. The godess of the sky, Pawali, and Makai were clashing over who was rightfully the owner of the land, which was caught between them. In this process, they destroyed a large swath of land along the edge, which became the coastline. In reparation for this, Tasa'i forced the two gods to declare the land as sacred to neither of them, and create people to populate the land.
Economic Base: Fishing and trade are the bases of the economy.
Nation Names : Stato'i, Mani'ao, Cavâtai
Person Names: Tasa'ui, Minai, Hiajo, Viasta, Saca'i
Place Names:
-Maka'ina: largest island in the Maka'ini chain
-Maka'ini: island chain between northern and southern landmasses within the range of the Castani
-Tasa'i'ina: northern landmass in the range of the Castani
- Casta'ina: southern landmass in the range of he Castani

Notes on language:
Apostrophes denote words describing each other (e.g. Maka'ina=Makai+aina=Land of Makai). Names are the exception to this (e.g. Tasa'i).

Specific words:
Aina=land (apostrophe form: 'ina)

Alphabet:
A C E F H I J L M N O P R S T U V
Accented letters (e.g. Ê) used on occasion to denote he sound (e.g. E as in very, Ê as in seed); adjectives and nouns can be compounded with apostrophes; apostrophes used in names on occasion. Word endings do not denote gender, and certain names are both genders.
 
So, Im looking at taking over the Dulama Empire if I can get in. Can someone near there explain the situation to me? I'm looking through the various documents, and Im seeing references to vassal states, but Im not sure which ones are and which aren't... Also, it appears that multiple invasions are under way. Is this reflective of a state of war, or is it just normal population movement?
 
Well, the Dulama Empire is in pretty dire straits right now- I don't think that anyone at this point could still be considered to be a Dulama vassal. :p
 
So, Im looking at taking over the Dulama Empire if I can get in. Can someone near there explain the situation to me? I'm looking through the various documents, and Im seeing references to vassal states, but Im not sure which ones are and which aren't... Also, it appears that multiple invasions are under way. Is this reflective of a state of war, or is it just normal population movement?

The Dulama are at war with Naran, Nounnaha and Ther to the west. Basically, when the earlier, stronger Dulama Empire descended into a four-way civil war a few decades ago, Ther and Naran tried to take advantage and seize control of territory in the west. Despite their civil war and the Vithana invasion, the Dulama were able to fight Naran to a standstill and nearly destroy Ther, but they've been unable to finish the job, and Nounnaha recently joined the war on Naran's side.

The Dulama are sort of at war with the Vithana. The Vithanama Empire is ruled by the Hai Vithana, a steppe people who invaded during the earlier Dulama civil war and crushed the Dulama forces in the eastern part of the former Dulama Empire, forming their own empire. They signed an uneasy peace with the Dulama remnant but have recently begun raiding. The Vithana are also loosely allied with Paitlo, an indepedent pirate-king who has declared himself emperor in the port city of Saigh, which also used to be part of the Dulama Empire. The Dulama Empire has fought Paitlo before but is currently in an uneasy peace with him as well (and, unlike the Vithana, he is not raiding the Dulama Empire's fringes).

There are also the forces of the Empire of Dula, a small traditionalist breakaway of the Dulama Empire in the civil war that survived early Dulama attempts to crush the rebellion and was then cut off from the rest of the empire by the Vithana invasion. They also do not hold the Dulama Empire in high regard, but they're at war with the Vithanama Empire and distant from the modern Dulama. The current Dulama Empire of course traces its origins to the city of Dula, even though Dula is no longer within the empire.

So, yeah, almost all of the nearby nations are enemies of the Dulama Empire to one degree or another, except my own nation (the Empire of Trahana) and our smaller neighbors in Dehr. There's also Sechm, which was a Dulama vassal at one point but broke free during the Dulama civil war.

Oh, and I suppose the Dulama are sort of still at war with the Laitra Empire, which did invade the Dulama Empire at the beginning of the civil war but hasn't had any real interaction with the Dulama since the Vithana invasion, as they are now leagues apart.


Not that the Dulama don't have a lot of potential. They're still at the very least one of the three strongest nations in the west (along with the Vithanama and Trahana), and they have a great deal of history and tradition behind them. They've just been fighting a lot of wars and lost their previously utterly dominant position recently.
 
Hightower said:
I didn't say anything about how the faith ought to work. Stop being nasty, overly protective and unnecessarily hostile.
It isn't our fault you have zero idea what your talking about :(

Hightower said:
My point was that Aitahism has had a clear divergence in dogma between different groups (NK himself even calls Eastern Aitahism closer to Maninism than Orthodox Aitahism), and that such divergences resulting in clearly separate sects can also arise naturally, organically and slowly within religions rather than through violent, one-time schisms, as they did between Mahayana and Theravada and between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. You can't contest either of those points at all.

Wrong and wrong.

Jehoshua said:
If you want to see some real questioning of how a fictional religion ought to work, you only need to go back a page or two.
You'll note that I didn't get involved.

Jehoshua said:
perhaps you would like to enlighten us about this matter relating to the faith you created to put to bed the speculation instead of merely stating the non-existence of certain states of being

Spoilers. Besides, Luckymoose and I have covered the topic already.
 
Thank you! Do you know what the state religion of Dulama is, or even of it has one? Traditional beliefs? Machaianism?

Machaianism. The emperors converted from the traditional religion back when the empire was still undivided. There aren't many traditional Dulama believers in the current empire; they're mostly in the east.
 
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