Vokarya's Workshop: Wonders

That is unlikely to have any affect. The AI does not compare buildings to wonders or projects, they are selected independently.

I know, my question should have been: what does AI take into consideration when selecting a project to build? It looks like some project are not attractive to AI. But as I said, the problem might be that by the time modern projects can be created AI is already too weak.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;13412236 said:
I know, my question should have been: what does AI take into consideration when selecting a project to build? It looks like some project are not attractive to AI. But as I said, the problem might be that by the time modern projects can be created AI is already too weak.

I checked, the AI will build projects in a city if:

They are not in a landwar or are winning in a landwar AND the city pop is > 3 and the city is one of the top :hammers: cities.
 
What I will do is set my Python wonders (Abu Simbel, Ishtar Gate, Via Appia, Machu Picchu, Golden Spike, Reichstag) to AI Weight 100 and remove the weight from Sun Tzu. I suspect it may have had a Python effect that was never changed.

Do you have any idea why certain buildings have AI Weights? Especially weird is that Fisherman's Hut has an AI Weight of 100. I wouldn't use Python effects for anything short of a National Wonder.
 
What I will do is set my Python wonders (Abu Simbel, Ishtar Gate, Via Appia, Machu Picchu, Golden Spike, Reichstag) to AI Weight 100 and remove the weight from Sun Tzu. I suspect it may have had a Python effect that was never changed.

Yes, Sun Tzu used to be python based, and it was changed to XML by RevDCM folks. That was 2010ish... :p

Do you have any idea why certain buildings have AI Weights? Especially weird is that Fisherman's Hut has an AI Weight of 100. I wouldn't use Python effects for anything short of a National Wonder.

Almost certainly legacy from Zappara. Feel free to remove.
 
East India Company is another helper Wonder. The tech being helped is Corporation. (It also requires Navigation, but that's to avoid it acting too strangely.)

Corporation is in a weird situation right now. I call it a "shadow" one-trick-pony tech because it looks like it has a lot but really does not. The only thing that Corporation can call its own is Wall Street; it also used to have the bonus to Whaling Boats before that was removed. All of the current in-game corporations require at least one Industrial or Modern Era tech, and all of those techs go through Steam Power. I haven't removed Corporation from the corps because I don't want to mess anything up with the Realistic Corporations option. (I did remove Corporation from the Corporate stores once I started pruning redundancies.) I don't really want to use Corporation mechanics on EIC, so it is a regular Wonder.

The difficult thing for me is giving EIC a distinct identity so that it is different from Adam Smith's Trading Company. I don't want to lose Adam Smith, as it is a great fit for Economics (although Economics is a very healthy 5 tricks without Adam) and Renaissance Wonders are hard to come by. So the mechanic that I went with to give EIC its own identity is that it provides free Spices (scaled by world size, like Hit Movies from Hollywood). I'd be interested in anything else anyone wants to suggest; I thought about something related to Vassal States if it was doable in XML. One thing I have at least considered is borrowing the idea of Platyping's Empire State Building and have EIC produce random resources, although I would limit it to a list of luxury tropical resources and leave out all of the animal and strategic resources.

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I mentioned in the Buildings thread that I want to move Grocer from Guilds to Crop Rotation. I was looking at the various guilds for redundancies and I noticed a couple of them could have their additional tech (the one aside from Guilds) changed up a little.

Clerks Guild: Move from Music to Civil Service. This is when Clerks really take off, with the rise of bureaucracy.

Equestrians Guild: Move from Stirrup to Armored Cavalry. Stirrup is an entire era for Guilds; it's not really good to have two prerequisites so far apart that one of them becomes trivial. Armored Cavalry could also use some fleshing out.

Fishmongers Guild: Add Rudder. Fishmongers Guild is the one guild without a secondary requirement. I think Rudder is a good fit here.
 
For me East India Company as a wonder sounds :sad:
It surely sounds to be a corporation.
...but I guess we don't need/want a new one, so IMHO it is not a good idea to add EIC. It just don't feel like a wonder.


Guilds Transplantation:
All sounds good and reasonable to me.
 
I tend to agree with Sogroon on both fronts.
 
I'm only adding where I think we need to flesh out particular techs - I don't want any tech to feel like "filler". I am interested in cutting as I am in adding, and there still a few things that I want to remove but I want to be careful about what is removed so that I don't really screw anything up.
 
I would lean on the side of saying Corporation has enough items and does not need a new wonder. Yes, it does not have much when you ignore the corporate units/buildings, but the fact of the matter is that because it unlocks corporations (or at least, makes it possible to unlock corporations) it is a fairly important enough tech on that alone.
 
East India Company does not seem to me unique enough to be added.
 
I think what we really should do is move the Corporation tech. The tech is mid-Renaissance, but anything that really benefits from it is Industrial Era or later. That's telling me that the placement of the technology is off. So what I think we should do is this:

  • Corporation's prerequisites change to Constitution + Economics (which is exactly what its prerequisites are in regular BTS). Corporation becomes an Industrial-1 tech, right next to Steam Power (in BTS, it is still Renaissance, but very late).
  • Corporation would then lead to Marxism.

Then Corporation is totally non-redundant on several of the early corporations (Mining Inc, Standard Ethanol, Sid's Sushi) and there is no need for the EIC at all.

Is this workable?
 
I think what we really should do is move the Corporation tech. The tech is mid-Renaissance, but anything that really benefits from it is Industrial Era or later. That's telling me that the placement of the technology is off. So what I think we should do is this:

Corporation's prerequisites change to Constitution + Economics (which is exactly what its prerequisites are in regular BTS). Corporation becomes an Industrial-1 tech, right next to Steam Power (in BTS, it is still Renaissance, but very late).
Corporation would then lead to Marxism.


Then Corporation is totally non-redundant on several of the early corporations (Mining Inc, Standard Ethanol, Sid's Sushi) and there is no need for the EIC at all.

Is this workable?

I totally disagree. Corporations became a large part of global commerce in the Renaissance era. It's perfect where it is at. Please don't move it. I'm too much for realism.

EDIT: You did say you would leave it Renaissance. I missed that. Sorry!

East India Company does not seem to me unique enough to be added.

I disagree with this also. The East India Companies in Europe had a huge global impact. They were truly the beginning of Globalism and Corporations. But one thing I would suggest is for the EIC to require Mercantilism instead of Navigation. Mercantilism is the driving force that motivated governments to allow these companies to operate on such a massive scale.
 
Corporations move:
I think it's an excellent solution. THX Vokarya :goodjob:

I disagree with this also. The East India Companies in Europe had a huge global impact. They were truly the beginning of Globalism and Corporations. But one thing I would suggest is for the EIC to require Mercantilism instead of Navigation. Mercantilism is the driving force that motivated governments to allow these companies to operate on such a massive scale.

EIC is not enough unique as a wonder.
It rather sounds as a corporation, but we don't need any more of them.
IIRC some mods have EIC as a civilisation which is a bit nonsense.

Maybe, m a y b e it could be a project unlocking a building for all civs and giving a free one of that building in every city for the builder civ when completed.
 
Yes, I meant EIC did not stand up on its own with its gameplay effects, not because of its concept or historical role.

Moving Corporation a bit later makes sense, but I'd still leave it marked as Reneissance era, rather than Industrial.
 
EIC is not enough unique as a wonder.
It rather sounds as a corporation, but we don't need any more of them.
IIRC some mods have EIC as a civilisation which is a bit nonsense.

I disagree. I see no problem with this as a national wonder. It's impactful enough to be a national wonder and every civ should have the option to build one. Historically speaking there was more than one.
 
Yes, I meant EIC did not stand up on its own with its gameplay effects, not because of its concept or historical role.

Do you have any ideas that might work? I'm probably going to save this for a later modmod, but I'd be interested in anything else. EIC is going to stay a World Wonder in whatever version I do. Yes, there were others, but I'm trying to capture the British EIC without tying it to a particular civ. That is extremely bad form as far as I'm concerned.

I have come to the conclusion that Corporation is absolutely going to be very early Industrial Era. One of the things that I am going to try and avoid -- and I will propose a few tech cuts to alleviate this -- is slicing a broad field into too many techs in the same era. For example, I thought there were too many computer technologies in the late Modern Era, and as Neural Networks was probably never going to meet the content-viability threshold, it was a prime target to cut. Likewise, one reason I cut Mounted Archery was that we had 3 techs almost solely related to horses in the Classical Era (Horse Breeding, Mounted Archery, Stirrup). I don't think that's a good thing. In this case, there is maybe a little too much concentration in the economic field in the Renaissance. The early chartered corporations are a better fit for Mercantilism. Independent corporations are part of the Industrial Era.
 
Do you have any ideas that might work? I'm probably going to save this for a later modmod, but I'd be interested in anything else. EIC is going to stay a World Wonder in whatever version I do. Yes, there were others, but I'm trying to capture the British EIC without tying it to a particular civ. That is extremely bad form as far as I'm concerned.

Just a suggestion, since it looks like there was a debate on whether this should be a corporation how about effects along the lines of:
+ :) from spices, + :commerce: from all plantations, and -xx% cost to spread corporation, and/or reduced corporation maintenance?

That could make it a wonder with heavy corporation focus.
 
Just a suggestion, since it looks like there was a debate on whether this should be a corporation how about effects along the lines of:
+ :) from spices, + :commerce: from all plantations, and -xx% cost to spread corporation, and/or reduced corporation maintenance?

That could make it a wonder with heavy corporation focus.

Those bonuses actually make more sense to me as a wonder :lol:
 
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