[Religion and Revolution]: Wild Animals

I am starting this thread to discuss the implementation of wild animals into Religion and Revolution. These are the aspects of the feature as per the concept in ray's post and the modifications to it discussed in the Mod Development thread:

1. There are different wild animals like Black Bear, Boar, Brown Bear, Cougar, Jaguar, Panther, Polar Bear, Wolf and Humpback Whale.

2. (Re-)Spawning would be done by terrain:

Tundra, Permafrost -> Polar Bear, Wolf
Marsh, Light Green Savannah -> Panther, Boar
Prairie -> Cougar, Bear
Savannah -> Black Bear, Boar, Wolf

3. There is a maximum limit of wild animals to be (Re-)Spawned defined at the mapsizes. (XML)

4. The frequency / chances of respawning will be set at Difficulty. (XML)

5. There will be a game option to turn this feature of.

6. Wild Animals cannot enter a tile next to a city. (These are safe areas)
(Of course they will also not be spawned there)

7. Wild Animals are generally relatively weak and only pose a real threat to non-military units. (Should they only pose a threat to non-military or non-gunpowder units? I personally feel a pre-gunpowder unit should have some difficulty in overpowering a bear)

8. Killing a wild animal will give you a little Fur. (Automatically at the nearest city); killing a Humpback Whale gives a little Food and Whale Blubber to the attacking ship.

9. Some animals are defensive only (such as the Humpback Whale).

What do you think?

I like it. But how do you prevent like polar bear to be roaming the deserts? Can they only move around in tundra or permafrost? Or a cougar being on the permafrost for that matter?

I like very much the idea of "Wild Animals".

Couple years ago I already carried out some experiments with Wild Animals in my "Model: Mortally Dangerous Colonization" mod. Here a new direct link to download. You can use this mod as a very draft example. The source codes of this mod is here.

I tested couple moments in this mod:

1. Wild animals as dangerous creatives attack colonists and kill the treasures (!!!) that free travel on continent and could discover full map (Sorry, but I really hate such behaviour of treasures).
2. Spawning technique for wild animals could be used for the weather conditions (tornado, storms, etc., one of animals was especially exchanged on Tornado).

P.S. As I understand we will have a little different spawning technique in "Religion and Revolution" mod.

Moreover, this spawning technique (or a new one) could be used also for illnesses and diseases creation on some tiles (for instance, swamp/marsh, Amazon basin selva, etc.). Illnesses and diseases were very serious problems in XV-XVIII centures. Each unit on such dangerous tiles will lost some % of HP.

Plus additional element. Some free moving and spawning Bandit/Pirate units (similar to animals) are became available. They create additional dangerous atmosphere for the colonization process.

Gomer_Pyle said:

I like it. But how do you prevent like polar bear to be roaming the deserts? Can they only move around in tundra or permafrost? Or a cougar being on the permafrost for that matter?

Click to expand...

This is very usefull addition, Gomer_Pyle! Really a very strick limit should be implemented for animals based on terrains/features. The case as "Polar bear - on desent or under Palms" should be fully excluded.

KJ Jansson said:

Some free moving and spawning Bandit/Pirate units (similar to animals) are became available. They create additional dangerous atmosphere for the colonization process.

Click to expand...

I would like to have implementation of Pirates (and eventually Bandits) as a separate feature.
(But of course, we could use the code of "Wild Animals" as blueprint then.)

KJ Jansson said:

This is very usefull addition, Gomer_Pyle! Really a very strick limit should be implemented for animals based on terrains/features. The case as "Polar bear - on desent or under Palms" should be fully excluded.

Click to expand...

Please, let us not make the feature too complicated for now.
I suggest we first try the feature without "Certain Animals cannot enter certain Terrains" and see how it feels in game.
If this really is a problem then, we can still think of adding this.

Androrc the Orc said:

I am starting this thread to discuss the implementation of wild animals into Religion and Revolution. These are the aspects of the feature as per the concept in ray's post and the modifications to it discussed in the Mod Development thread:

Click to expand...

Wow! I'm impressed. I love this feature !

Androrc the Orc said:

1. There are different wild animals like Black Bear, Boar, Brown Bear, Cougar, Jaguar, Panther, Polar Bear, Wolf and Humpback Whale.

Click to expand...

You forgot: Orcs, Trolls ... Sorry! That one was too easy

Androrc the Orc said:

2. (Re-)Spawning would be done by terrain:

Tundra, Permafrost -> Polar Bear, Wolf
Marsh, Light Green Savannah -> Panther, Boar
Prairie -> Cougar, Bear
Savannah -> Black Bear, Boar, Wolf

Click to expand...

Great!
Permafrost? What is that?

Androrc the Orc said:

3. There is a maximum limit of wild animals to be (Re-)Spawned defined at the mapsizes. (XML)

Click to expand...

Ok!

Androrc the Orc said:

4. The frequency / chances of respawning will be set at Difficulty. (XML)

Click to expand...

Of course!

Androrc the Orc said:

5. There will be a game option to turn this feature of.

Click to expand...

I agree.
Just an idea, could we also have a second option:
Raging wild animals? (twice as much animals as usual -> same as raging barbarians in Civ4)?

Androrc the Orc said:

6. Wild Animals cannot enter a tile next to a city. (These are safe areas)
(Of course they will also not be spawned there)

Click to expand...

But they could enter player's territory... Ok, why not.

Androrc the Orc said:

7. Wild Animals are generally relatively weak and only pose a real threat to non-military units. (Should they only pose a threat to non-military or non-gunpowder units? I personally feel a pre-gunpowder unit should have some difficulty in overpowering a bear)

Click to expand...

I agree with KJ. The most important thing is that they will destroy unprotected treasures.

Androrc the Orc said:

8. Killing a wild animal will give you a little Fur. (Automatically at the nearest city); killing a Humpback Whale gives a little Food and Whale Blubber to the attacking ship.

Click to expand...

Some Fur. Great. We will need some... since Winter is coming

Androrc the Orc said:

9. Some animals are defensive only (such as the Humpback Whale).
What do you think?

Click to expand...

Of course.

KJ Jansson said:

I like very much the idea of "Wild Animals".

Couple years ago I already carried out some experiments with Wild Animals in my "Model: Mortally Dangerous Colonization" mod. Here a new direct link to download. You can use this mod as a very draft example. The source codes of this mod is here.

Click to expand...

Sounds great. I'll have a look...

KJ Jansson said:

I tested couple moments in this mod:

1. Wild animals as dangerous creatives attack colonists and kill the treasures (!!!) that free travel on continent and could discover full map (Sorry, but I really hate such behaviour of treasures).
2. Spawning technique for wild animals could be used for the weather conditions (tornado, storms, etc., one of animals was especially exchanged on Tornado).

Click to expand...

1. Hurray!
2. Interesting...

KJ Jansson said:

Moreover, this spawning technique (or a new one) could be used also for illnesses and diseases creation on some tiles (for instance, swamp/marsh, Amazon basin selva, etc.). Illnesses and diseases were very serious problems in XV-XVIII centures. Each unit on such dangerous tiles will lost some % of HP.

Plus additional element. Some free moving and spawning Bandit/Pirate units (similar to animals) are became available. They create additional dangerous atmosphere for the colonization process.

Click to expand...

One thing is certain... Our mod will only work if all the features bond one another. I agree with you KJ...

KJ Jansson said:

This is very usefull addition, Gomer_Pyle! Really a very strick limit should be implemented for animals based on terrains/features. The case as "Polar bear - on desent or under Palms" should be fully excluded.

Click to expand...

Well this time I disagree. I mean not exactly. Statistically, if the animals are weak, they would probably get killed way before they reach inappropriate lands, no?

Robert Surcouf said:

Well this time I disagree. I mean not exactly. Statistically, if the animals are weak, they would probably get killed way before they reach inappropriate lands, no?

Click to expand...

OK, let's image that wild animals are weak. But how will kill them?
Natives? Maybe.
European colonists. Yes, of course.

However, what's happen if natives and colonists are absent on the way of, for instance, polar bear?
Theoretically this polar bear can reach equatorial regions.

But how often someone from us meet polar bears in deserts? NEVER.

Thus, maybe not now, but in future such limit should be added.

KJ Jansson said:

Thus, maybe not now, but in future such limit should be added.

Click to expand...

First, let us try without.
If our tests show, that this is needed, we can still add it.

Let us get a "Version 1" of this feature that is not too complicated.

Agree ?

I agree with KJ on such limit; eventually a few polar bears will not be killed and get to inappropriate areas.

Anyhow, making the animals move only through their native terrains and features should be fairly easy to code. If it is agreed on, I can start working on that.

Androrc the Orc said:

I agree with KJ on such limit; eventually a few polar bears will not be killed and get to inappropriate areas.
Anyhow, making the animals move only through their native terrains and features should be fairly easy to code.

Click to expand...

Ok, you're the implementer.

Androrc the Orc said:

If it is agreed on, I can start working on that.

Click to expand...

Sure, go ahead.

raystuttgart said:

First, let us try without.
If our tests show, that this is needed, we can still add it.

Let us get a "Version 1" of this feature that is not too complicated.

Agree ?

Click to expand...

I think, considering this feature is basically similar to the one in JAnimals, which KJ's Mortally Dangerous Colonization mod has also used, that there has already been enough testing of this feature.

The polar bear is an extreme example, but it is also prevalent among other animals, such as brown bears being in jungles, and jaguars being in tundra. The result is that we have more or less the same animals throughout the whole map, rather than them being restricted to their respective environments.

raystuttgart said:

Sure, go ahead.

Click to expand...

Ok

It's OK then for me.
What about the "Raging animals" option idea. Do you like it or not?
And what is permafrost?

Robert Surcouf said:

And what is permafrost?

Click to expand...

"Permafrost" is a new Terrain introduced in TAC.
(You can take a look in Preview with Worldbuilder.)

I am not too sure about raging animals option. Raging feel too aggresive to me. It feels that they are only there to hunt colonists and not actually being part of "Nature" as they should be.

Robert Surcouf said:

What about the "Raging animals" option idea.

Click to expand...

Gomer_Pyle said:

Raging feel too aggresive to me. It feels that they are only there to hunt colonists and not actually being part of "Nature" as they should be.

Click to expand...

I would also rather leave that out.

Guys, do you know where in the code the "waking" of units when there is an enemy nearby is set?

Considering animals will never enter tiles adjacent to cities, there is no reason for pioneers and other such units to "awake" when animals are nearby if they are in these kinds of tiles.

Androrc the Orc said:

Guys, do you know where in the code the "waking" of units when there is an enemy nearby is set?

Click to expand...

I guess, it should be programmed in the corresponding UnitAIs.

Natives could hunt animals to get stronger (exp), in hopes to be a greater danger - while europeans hunting natives denies them something they need. this is something they could compete for without being at war?

thadian said:

Natives could hunt animals to get stronger (exp), in hopes to be a greater danger - while europeans hunting natives denies them something they need. this is something they could compete for without being at war?

Click to expand...

Both, Europeans and Natives will "hunt" Wild Animals wandering around the map.
They will give a little XP and probably also a little Fur and Food to the next city.

The feature will probably be implemented in Release 2.