Civilzations of the East and West

I just was wondering what everyones opinions is, from around the world, Europe, Americas, Africa, Asia, and Australia, on their respective civilizations. Throughout history, either the West has been at the top or the East, in terms of science and progress. So i was thinking, maybe the time has finally come when both civs can live peacefully and equally, possible by the end of this century? Or is the West going to start a slow decline? Look at population charts and you realize that Europe is going to lose 144 million people by 2100, and America is becoming more and more of a melting pots. While in the rest of the non-western world, populations are just exploding.

It's certainly arguable that the West is already in decline, and has been for some time.

Unfortunately for the East, their rise seems rather dependent on the West at the moment.

well, thats not entirelly true- during the middle ages, with few exceptions, the technology lost from Rome set europe back hundreds of years- and sent the orental nations up...

anyway, I would argue that the US IS the west- after its culture that counts, ant what the people are, and the US is most certainlly western in that resepect

My prediction is that the east particuluary China and India will increase in power significantly in the next century. Imagine if a country the size of India or China has an economy similar to Japan or South Korea! I see the USA in a very slow decline and Europe I can see going either way, either declining in power or gaining more power. I think the fate of Europe depends on their ability to come together. Latin America, Middle East and Africa I see in a position of continueing to work out their fundamental problems. I don't see them gaining much power, but I do see the financial/power gap between them and the rest of the world getting smaller.

I see it somewhat likely that by the end of this century the world's power is concentrated more in the East then the West.

Why will Europe lose 144 mil.?

I think that the West has it all over the East... for now. America is terribly powerful at the moment and surpasses many other countries. However, China is starting to come into its own, and I could really see it become a super power. Sadly, many European countries aren't as powerful as they once were. The population in Italy is VERY down. This is due to grown men still living with their mothers and not going out and getting married. (I'm serious, I read it in the NY Times)

Originally posted by Amenhotep7
Why will Europe lose 144 mil.?

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Probably less and less people are having children. Alot of countries already have negative population growth, and this will only increase.

About the original question though: I wouldn't say the West is in a decline, but I'd say that its close to it. Its so hard to be objective about these kind of things...

And I think China could definetely become a powerhouse if they're modernize their society a little more. After all, having over 1 billion people will make you a economic powerhouse no matter what, and with a free market (which could come soon) and urbanization they could definetely be up there.

If they gain a free market while we are losing ours, they will definately be on the move.

I hope America isn't shoved off the superpower stage anytime soon, since I'm and American. I think American power could last for a couple 100 more years...The balance of power would most likely shift to another "Westernized" country before it shifts into an Eastern country.

I don't see the occident declining any time soon. China and India will come into it's own, but China will have to lose territory in order to be cohesive enough to have a proper Western Economy. Same with India. East and South Asia will soon look like Europe, and then there will be competition. Therefore, I don't see a massive nation with as powerful an economy as European or North American nations.

Even when Europe was in the "Dark Ages" it was still powerful, it was constantly invaded from all sides bar the Atlantic and religious stagnancy didn't help.

If the rate of technology continues to grow, then eventually the backwards nations may only be severals years behind the advanced one. I guess you can call that an equilibrium of progress. But then again, if that does happen, a country might be considered underdeveloped if its several months behind. So I don't think that there'll be a scientific equilibrium.
However I do believe people can live peacefully together

i think that eventually China will become more powerful than the USA. the EU may become a confederation of highly autonomous provinces(the former countries). i doubt the Arabs would unite, but i think they would have if it had not been for the Europeans annexing them, when they promised to give them freedom from the Ottoman Empire. If they had, i doubt bin Laden would have had much support, as most Middle-Easterners would say, "But the West freed us." The Mid-East would be a unified country today had this happened, and they may have been a descisive factor in the Cold War; i believe they would have sided with the West. had we sent troops to China when the Nationalists invaded Manchuria(Communists) then China would now be an ally.

the US is behind the rest of the West. the rest of the non-US West is behind the Netherlands and the other countries who have legalized gay marriage. the USA is the only country that remains Imperialist.

Originally posted by sims2789
the US is behind the rest of the West. the rest of the non-US West is behind the Netherlands and the other countries who have legalized gay marriage. the USA is the only country that remains Imperialist.

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Neither has India or China. What does this have to do with the thread topic?



Just because there is a population decline does not mean the West is falling. The rest of the world is slowly catching up, so you get this impression that west is in decline, but in reality it is still going strong.

Well the good thing about being half Indian and half American is that if America goes to hell, I can go to India!

I think Sims was referring to advancement in social policy. That is probably too subjective for this thread. I would argue that the most advanced western nations all around are Switzerland, The Netherlands, and I suppose Finland. Switzerland may be very "traditional" in some areas, but their level of advancement in democracy and economic development is astounding.

In terms of bulk influence, however, nothing can argue with America.

The declining birthrates in the West are just one factor in the future supremacy of the East. Asia is getting its act together regardless of Western birthrates however.

The declining birthrates in the West are just one factor in the future supremacy of the East. Asia is getting its act together regardless of Western birthrates however.

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Ya and with our people killing half there kids before they are even born, the east is just gonna get bigger.

The west is not in decline, the natural balence is just being restored. For almost all of civilized history there have been multiple centers of power. Only recently has it been dominated by one group. This group is the U.S., Europe, and the anglo-colonies. The east and the south are finally regaining their place as equals to the west.

After all, having over 1 billion people will make you a economic powerhouse no matter what,

Or it could become a major liability. India in many ways is far better connected economically, especially in the technology sector, but its mass population and the fairly extreme poverty among that population are dragging India's economy down. Qing China was seriously destabilized by its out-of-control population growth in the 18th century, as living standards among China's rural population plummitted from 1750 to 1900 because the imperial system was overwhelmed by the population. Think of that; one of the planet's most wealthy and bureaucratized states in the 18th century, seen in the 17th and early 18th centuries by visiting Europeans as a model of state organization, drowned in its own humanity.

There are few certainties in projecting political history. Both China and India have the possibility to become truly great states and world powers in their own right, but they both also carry within them great weaknesses and liabilities that can undermine the immense economic progress each has made, probably moreso than most other states. India's challenge will be to resolve the extreme nature of the economc chasm that exists within, and its ability to rectify the very extreme diversity - social, ethnic, religious - that is very connected to the economic and social inequities. China's main challenge will be to develop a modern form of government that facilitates the kind of economy and society China is developing, at least along its coastal provinces, while at the same time juggling the growing inequalities in terms of living standard and economic opportunity arising between different parts of the country. And did someone mention that there are a billion Chinese as well...?

I think the East/West divide is superficial. While that's not to claim that it is non-existant, I think a basic common ground has been found as to what is desirable for states and what is acceptable. Don't get me wrong; there's still plenty to disagree on, but while our disagreements are still often couched in the language of east vs. West, in reality the underlying motivations ae often very similar and mutually-understandable, if not wholly agreed.

Originally posted by h4ppy
The west is not in decline, the natural balence is just being restored. For almost all of civilized history there have been multiple centers of power. Only recently has it been dominated by one group. This group is the U.S., Europe, and the anglo-colonies. The east and the south are finally regaining their place as equals to the west.

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This is true, Europe is pretty saturated with people, and the fact that India and China are going to add hundreds of millions that they CANNOT support, it does not mean that Europe (and America) should keep an unhealthfully large population.