El-J 03 ~ Going Rogue, AoI Style
- Thread starter El Justo
- Start date
ChaosArbiter
King
Any of them would be fine by me (Japan would dovetail nicely with my China game, though).
Maimonides
Emperor
Hi, all! I've had the honor of being invited to take the 10th slot. This will be my 1st SG, but it looks like fun & I'm looking forward to it.
Narrowed down to U.S., Japan & Italy, my vote goes for Japan. This is a great scenario for naval action. The U.S. would be my last choice. It's not as challenging. Whatever is decided, this should be interesting.
EDIT: Forgot to mention I'm comfortable at Monarch level. I don't play higher difficulty levels much because they're not as much fun for me. Whatever the team decides on is fine with me.
I brought a drum.
Narrowed down to U.S., Japan & Italy, my vote goes for Japan. This is a great scenario for naval action. The U.S. would be my last choice. It's not as challenging. Whatever is decided, this should be interesting.
EDIT: Forgot to mention I'm comfortable at Monarch level. I don't play higher difficulty levels much because they're not as much fun for me. Whatever the team decides on is fine with me.
I brought a drum.
Tank_Guy#3
Lion of Lehistan
lurker's comment: I'd have thought El J would try to go for a non-colonial civ this time around to see if the "new crew" could achieve the same level of global dominance our crew did achieved as Germany.
ChaosArbiter
King
EDIT: Nevermind, I figured out how to get 7 to show them. Damn Microsoft, it's always something!
El Justo
Deity
i would do Japan if it's believed that the US is too easy (they are, sort of). the US would be a great civ for a Training Game.
also, new files are up and ready. check pg1/post1 in the main AoI thread (see sig).
i would launch tonight but we haven't decided on a civ
no sweat. but we should probably decide on our position soon!
oh and a big welcome to Maimonides. he is our 10th player!! perhaps the largest ever SG?!
also, new files are up and ready. check pg1/post1 in the main AoI thread (see sig).
i would launch tonight but we haven't decided on a civ
no sweat. but we should probably decide on our position soon!oh and a big welcome to Maimonides. he is our 10th player!! perhaps the largest ever SG?!
El Justo
Deity
Updated Roster:
1.) El Justo
2.) easyhasaids
3.) Arexander
4.) Klyden
5.) Adler17
6.) Donkeyman
7.) Whomp
8.) ZeletDude
9.) ChaosArbiter
10.) Maimonides
let's decide on a civ fellas!!
1.) El Justo
2.) easyhasaids
3.) Arexander
4.) Klyden
5.) Adler17
6.) Donkeyman
7.) Whomp
8.) ZeletDude
9.) ChaosArbiter
10.) Maimonides
let's decide on a civ fellas!!
Maimonides
Emperor
I looked back over the thread & here are everyone's most recent preferences:
1.) El Justo: Japan
2.) easyhasaids: Japan or Italy
3.) Arexander: Japan
4.) Klyden: U.S.A.
5.) Adler17: none
6.) Donkeyman: Japan
7.) Whomp: Italy or a powerful civ at a high difficulty level.
8.) ZeletDude: Japan or U.S.A.
9.) ChaosArbiter: Japan
10.) Maimonides: Japan
Japan: 6 votes
Italy: 1.5 votes
U.S.A.: 1.5 votes
Democratically, it's Japan, but whatever you decide, El Justo, is good.
I'd love to see this thing launched today.
EDIT: Arexander xposted me w/ a different preference so I adjusted the standings above.
El Justo
Deity
nice 
Adler will, i'm sure, be ok w/ whatever we choose. he's been busy w/ RL lately.
i say we do no less than what we did for the last AoI SG and that's Sid level (commodore i think in the AoI language). seems daunting, i know. but trust me
if we MM this thing like we did in the first AoI SG, no doubt in my mind that we roll. it's a matter of keeping the proverbial pedal to the metal
Adler will, i'm sure, be ok w/ whatever we choose. he's been busy w/ RL lately.
i say we do no less than what we did for the last AoI SG and that's Sid level (commodore i think in the AoI language). seems daunting, i know. but trust me
if we MM this thing like we did in the first AoI SG, no doubt in my mind that we roll. it's a matter of keeping the proverbial pedal to the metal 
Kibitzer:
AoI II it was Admiral for me was Sid. A Commodore is a 1 star. Admiral is 4. At least in the US Navy as I recall from boot camp.
AoI II it was Admiral for me was Sid. A Commodore is a 1 star. Admiral is 4. At least in the US Navy as I recall from boot camp.
Looks like Japan it is.
Warning: spoiler alert for Japan.
Some pointers for the overall strategy of Japan:
First, we have a couple of long term conquest goals to consider:
1. Asiatic Russia. This area starts out pretty remote from the rest of Russia. With the exception of the city guards, the Japanese have the advantage in terms of quality. Russia can be fairly slow to develop this area, so we have some time to work on building up for a campaign. Advantages to Japan are the addition of more industrial production centers and the removal of our most immediate threat. There are also two VP locations in the immediate area and some of the tiles around Port Arthur and and Mukden are of the bonus variety, so they will be good producers. Finally, the only inland city in the area is Mukden. We can use our navy to good effect for gunfire support since Japanese artillery is pretty bad early in the game. IF we go this way, I would say we look to nab not only Port Arthur, Mukden and of course, Vladivostok, but also snag the other coastal cities and Sahkalin Island. Petropavlosk is a particular juicy item because with it, we will be able to build the diamond wonder later on.
Some issues are the Russians are big. Don't expect them not to go down without a fight. This is a major campaign, no question. The other thing is the Russian fleet is fairly powerful to start with here and should not be dismissed out of hand.
2. Probably the Spanish. Delay while we build up and then basically go around capturing just about everything Spanish in the Pacific with the exception of Manila. This will net several colonies that will produce VPs for us and give a base of operations for other campaigns. This will allow us to use our good firepower from the navy and dump troops at each island to overwhelm the garrisons there in piecemeal fashion since the Spanish navy is usually out of the area after several turns. This is not really that close to home and also gives a fair area to try to defend in the future by tying down a fair number of troops since there are no "safe" areas generated, but does have the side effect of eventually granting a good number of colonial workers down the road and at the end of the second era, their production will be fair as well, but not really before then.
This is probably easier than the Russian campaign simply because the enemy is weaker and there is no navy to show down with. Unfortunately, going this route if the Russians are still around also means you have to leave a sizeable garrison close to home just in case.
3. Chinese. Base stuff out of Taipei, take Fuchou and then go from there. I really don't like early Chinese campaigns because I think they over extend you and there isn't a ton of "meat" there unless you are ready to dive into a full scale invasion and shove a ton of troops in there. You also have to worry about the Brits and to a lesser extent, the Germans. In addition, you already have a worker issue as it is and taking China early in the game just adds to it. I just included it here to round things out.
Early Japanese strategy:
One of the first things that has to be fixed is resource hook ups. There is no source of iron in the home islands to start the game (you have to build the road) and there is no source of coal in Korea. This means no rail improvements (which also have culture and bump your production). Japanese workers are at a premium and we need a sound strategy, especially early.
El Justo knows first hand I can build an economy pretty well from all the play test reports I have done and other games we have been in. One of the things I do is get "mine happy" to up shield production and while it cuts down on population, being able to produce a lot of "stuff" is what is going to get the win in a game like this. Japanese money wise are ok, so they don't really need a ton of roads built early beyond getting their resources into the net. The area around Tokyo needs to be turned over to mines as quickly as possible since capitals are so critical in the game. Other areas need to follow, especially the site of the second major production center (probably Kagoshima).
To help the Japanese worker issue, Taipei needs special attention in terms of rushed improvements in order to get up to speed to provide the colonial workers that will help whip the rest of the empire into shape (and also get newly conquested lands into shape as well). Other focus points that need to have attention is to hammer cultural improvements in Hamhung, Sapporo, and Kurii Islands along with Seoul and Kagoshima.
Tokyo needs to be the primary production center of the empire to start with and a secondary location needs to be developed with an eye towards being able to crank out the science wonders that will help not only with the science race, but also with extra production. I usually like using Kagoshima for this task, although I have used Osaka before. Sapporo should probably be prepped for either Worlds Fair or Olympics. I think Worlds Fair is easier to put in because the Stadium can be an expensive early game improvement to put in, although a Stadium will be on Sapporo's to do list since they are interested in building culture. The other one probably needs to go in say Seoul. Care must be taken on what you plan on going where since Seoul is the only city we have on the mainland that has the industrial resource and that has to be in the city limits in order to be able to build a lot of these improvements.
Early military posture: We don't have much in the way of ground forces and I think we leave it that way for awhile and concentrate on infrastructure and perhaps some naval builds here and there. I think we do NOT block the Russians from exiting their ports if they want to. Typically, they might get into trouble and someone else sinks them for us.
Early scientific stuff: I think we get colonial worker fairly early, but maybe not right off the bat. We should concentrate more on the "industrial" side of the tech tree since we don't have much of a colonial empire to worry about and we would also like the ability to build improved ship classes for our navy.
I would also suggest we pay off whoever demands tribute for awhile. Reminder that even if someone like Austria Hungary demands, you should pay because they can get to you through Russia and it is a big headache. Now if someone like the Boers demands, we can tell them to go fish without too many issues I think.
Sorry for the wall of text, but just trying to get everyone on the same page.
Some basic questions:
1. Do we look at a Russian campaign or go after some Spanish islands to start with?
2. Do we lay back a bit, build and improve up before launching a war? (have to build up more with the Russians I think) or do we look to try to do something within the first 2 years of game time? (this will have a major impact on building strategy and infrastructure and I recommend against, but I am just 1 of the players and will go with what the team decides).
Warning: spoiler alert for Japan.
Some pointers for the overall strategy of Japan:
First, we have a couple of long term conquest goals to consider:
1. Asiatic Russia. This area starts out pretty remote from the rest of Russia. With the exception of the city guards, the Japanese have the advantage in terms of quality. Russia can be fairly slow to develop this area, so we have some time to work on building up for a campaign. Advantages to Japan are the addition of more industrial production centers and the removal of our most immediate threat. There are also two VP locations in the immediate area and some of the tiles around Port Arthur and and Mukden are of the bonus variety, so they will be good producers. Finally, the only inland city in the area is Mukden. We can use our navy to good effect for gunfire support since Japanese artillery is pretty bad early in the game. IF we go this way, I would say we look to nab not only Port Arthur, Mukden and of course, Vladivostok, but also snag the other coastal cities and Sahkalin Island. Petropavlosk is a particular juicy item because with it, we will be able to build the diamond wonder later on.
Some issues are the Russians are big. Don't expect them not to go down without a fight. This is a major campaign, no question. The other thing is the Russian fleet is fairly powerful to start with here and should not be dismissed out of hand.
2. Probably the Spanish. Delay while we build up and then basically go around capturing just about everything Spanish in the Pacific with the exception of Manila. This will net several colonies that will produce VPs for us and give a base of operations for other campaigns. This will allow us to use our good firepower from the navy and dump troops at each island to overwhelm the garrisons there in piecemeal fashion since the Spanish navy is usually out of the area after several turns. This is not really that close to home and also gives a fair area to try to defend in the future by tying down a fair number of troops since there are no "safe" areas generated, but does have the side effect of eventually granting a good number of colonial workers down the road and at the end of the second era, their production will be fair as well, but not really before then.
This is probably easier than the Russian campaign simply because the enemy is weaker and there is no navy to show down with. Unfortunately, going this route if the Russians are still around also means you have to leave a sizeable garrison close to home just in case.
3. Chinese. Base stuff out of Taipei, take Fuchou and then go from there. I really don't like early Chinese campaigns because I think they over extend you and there isn't a ton of "meat" there unless you are ready to dive into a full scale invasion and shove a ton of troops in there. You also have to worry about the Brits and to a lesser extent, the Germans. In addition, you already have a worker issue as it is and taking China early in the game just adds to it. I just included it here to round things out.
Early Japanese strategy:
One of the first things that has to be fixed is resource hook ups. There is no source of iron in the home islands to start the game (you have to build the road) and there is no source of coal in Korea. This means no rail improvements (which also have culture and bump your production). Japanese workers are at a premium and we need a sound strategy, especially early.
El Justo knows first hand I can build an economy pretty well from all the play test reports I have done and other games we have been in. One of the things I do is get "mine happy" to up shield production and while it cuts down on population, being able to produce a lot of "stuff" is what is going to get the win in a game like this. Japanese money wise are ok, so they don't really need a ton of roads built early beyond getting their resources into the net. The area around Tokyo needs to be turned over to mines as quickly as possible since capitals are so critical in the game. Other areas need to follow, especially the site of the second major production center (probably Kagoshima).
To help the Japanese worker issue, Taipei needs special attention in terms of rushed improvements in order to get up to speed to provide the colonial workers that will help whip the rest of the empire into shape (and also get newly conquested lands into shape as well). Other focus points that need to have attention is to hammer cultural improvements in Hamhung, Sapporo, and Kurii Islands along with Seoul and Kagoshima.
Tokyo needs to be the primary production center of the empire to start with and a secondary location needs to be developed with an eye towards being able to crank out the science wonders that will help not only with the science race, but also with extra production. I usually like using Kagoshima for this task, although I have used Osaka before. Sapporo should probably be prepped for either Worlds Fair or Olympics. I think Worlds Fair is easier to put in because the Stadium can be an expensive early game improvement to put in, although a Stadium will be on Sapporo's to do list since they are interested in building culture. The other one probably needs to go in say Seoul. Care must be taken on what you plan on going where since Seoul is the only city we have on the mainland that has the industrial resource and that has to be in the city limits in order to be able to build a lot of these improvements.
Early military posture: We don't have much in the way of ground forces and I think we leave it that way for awhile and concentrate on infrastructure and perhaps some naval builds here and there. I think we do NOT block the Russians from exiting their ports if they want to. Typically, they might get into trouble and someone else sinks them for us.
Early scientific stuff: I think we get colonial worker fairly early, but maybe not right off the bat. We should concentrate more on the "industrial" side of the tech tree since we don't have much of a colonial empire to worry about and we would also like the ability to build improved ship classes for our navy.
I would also suggest we pay off whoever demands tribute for awhile. Reminder that even if someone like Austria Hungary demands, you should pay because they can get to you through Russia and it is a big headache. Now if someone like the Boers demands, we can tell them to go fish without too many issues I think.
Sorry for the wall of text, but just trying to get everyone on the same page.
Some basic questions:
1. Do we look at a Russian campaign or go after some Spanish islands to start with?
2. Do we lay back a bit, build and improve up before launching a war? (have to build up more with the Russians I think) or do we look to try to do something within the first 2 years of game time? (this will have a major impact on building strategy and infrastructure and I recommend against, but I am just 1 of the players and will go with what the team decides).
ChaosArbiter
King
My two coppers: I say we build up for at least two years. Whether we go against the Russians or the Spanish I think depends on whether we want to create a Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere or we want to gather Raw Materials by the truckload. Kicking Russia out gives us more Industrial and VP Locations, going for Spain lets us start working on Raw Materials earlier.
I agree on holding off on China - while we won't have to deal with Britains Indian hordes until someone slags Tibet, China's just not going to be fun to build up, especially if the British or French decide to get nosy.
I agree on holding off on China - while we won't have to deal with Britains Indian hordes until someone slags Tibet, China's just not going to be fun to build up, especially if the British or French decide to get nosy.
Personally, I think we should actually go for the Chinese first- those cities can be extremely productive in the long term (so many hills and mountains to mine...), they have one of the worst militaries in the game, and we can build workers over there to develop it and to ship to the home islands/korea if needed. It also opens up a road to Tibet, and if we take control of that we can basically neutralize British India by forcing them to attack us in that mountain fortress instead of launching amphibious attacks everywhere like they tend to do.
Maimonides
Emperor
Whatever. We all know you're going to spend your turns building nothing but Sports Stadiums & Financial Institutions.
Seriously, I'll take the lead of others. Sid level...
Launch this ship El, Justo! The Emperor is watching us & honor demands that we don't disappoint him!
