Best alternative to Civ: Fallen Enchantress or Endless Space?

Wrong. FE is a fantastic game and is a hell of a lot better than Civ V IMO. It's everything that WoM should have been and wasn't...I suggest interested parties watch some recent playthrough videos, or read some AAR's like this one:

http://forums.elementalgame.com/437040

I stand by my assertion. If you want a game that does what FE is trying to do, look to Age of Wonders, Master of Magic, Warlords, or even Civ4's own Fall From Heaven mod(they hired Kael on to help fix FE, but didn't really incorporate many of his ideas). They all do " 4x strategy fantasy game" better.

If you want the icing on the cake, Brad Wardell, the CEO of Stardock, is a pretty reprehensible human being. He's currently in court over harassment charges(well documented), and famously wrote a huge public rant partly blaming his own customers for how bad War of Magic's release was(he later deleted and apologized for it). Even now he's trolling his own forums, trying to silence critics. It's sad really.

Seriously though, look elsewhere for your 4x fix, or at the very least wait for a big sale+expansion. It's still a buggy game, with poor combat and poor balance, small maps, and jumbled game design. Maybe they'll get it right eventually, but not right now.
 
If you want the icing on the cake, Brad Wardell, the CEO of Stardock, is a pretty reprehensible human being. He's currently in court over harassment charges(well documented), and famously wrote a huge public rant partly blaming his own customers for how bad War of Magic's release was(he later deleted and apologized for it). Even now he's trolling his own forums, trying to silence critics. It's sad really.

This comment disgusts me. I've never read anything less true than this garbage. I've been a member of Stardocks forums and their customer for many years, and Brad is a great guy, and an amazing CEO. He took full responsibility for WoM in writing, and has made every effort to make it up to his customers. Including giving us all a free copy of Fallen Enchantress. Every developer could learn a lesson from Brad about how to stand behind their products. I've never dealt with a better PC game company. In a day when companies like EA and Ubisoft are doing so much to screw theuir customers, Brad understands that he owes everyting to his customers and it shows in Stardocks customer service and dedication to making their games better.

You clearly don't know about Brad Wardell or Stardock.
 
I think few people mentioned warlock which is quite good game. Also as koolhan mentioned above, there are some older games that r really good. I specifically can recommend age of wonders 2. Which was in my opinion, The best fantasy game I ever played
 
This comment disgusts me. I've never read anything less true than this garbage. I've been a member of Stardocks forums and their customer for many years, and Brad is a great guy, and an amazing CEO. He took full responsibility for WoM in writing, and has made every effort to make it up to his customers. Including giving us all a free copy of Fallen Enchantress. Every developer could learn a lesson from Brad about how to stand behind their products. I've never dealt with a better PC game company. In a day when companies like EA and Ubisoft are doing so much to screw theuir customers, Brad understands that he owes everyting to his customers and it shows in Stardocks customer service and dedication to making their games better.

You clearly don't know about Brad Wardell or Stardock.

First of all, I own a few Stardock games, WoM, SoSE included, and I used to frequent both forums. I don't personally know Wardell, no, but I've seen his posts on the forums, read about him, and seen his public statements. That's as much as most people "know".

Why should it disgust you that I am critical of someone you supposedly don't really know? All of the things I mentioned actually happened, and speak poorly of him. The company(I doubt it was his decision based on how he reacted at first) made FE free to people who ordered WoM in 2010(not people who purchased after the fact), because WoM was released in the most unfinished state of any game in recent memory. It was an unprecedented failure and a massive letdown to all the fans expecting the next Master of Magic. There was a huge PR scandal because of it, and huge backlash from fans(myself included).

Companies providing services because of customer reaction is nothing new(Look at BioWare making a completely different ending/expansion because their original one was obviously a cop out), though they have taken a step further which is a good thing, however..... Stardock released a game that was for all intents and purposes an Alpha, and charged people top dollar for it. Is that the mark of a good company, and good CEO?

If you would like links to all the facts I'd be more than happy to oblige.
 
First of all, I own a few Stardock games, WoM, SoSE included, and I used to frequent both forums. I don't personally know Wardell, no, but I've seen his posts on the forums, read about him, and seen his public statements. That's as much as most people "know".

Why should it disgust you that I am critical of someone you supposedly don't really know? All of the things I mentioned actually happened, and speak poorly of him. The company(I doubt it was his decision based on how he reacted at first) made FE free to people who ordered WoM in 2010(not people who purchased after the fact), because WoM was released in the most unfinished state of any game in recent memory. It was an unprecedented failure and a massive letdown to all the fans expecting the next Master of Magic. There was a huge PR scandal because of it, and huge backlash from fans(myself included).

Companies providing services because of customer reaction is nothing new(Look at BioWare making a completely different ending/expansion because their original one was obviously a cop out), though they have taken a step further which is a good thing, however..... Stardock released a game that was for all intents and purposes an Alpha, and charged people top dollar for it. Is that the mark of a good company, and good CEO?

If you would like links to all the facts I'd be more than happy to oblige.

I base my opinion of Stardock and Brad Wardell on my experiences with them as a customer and a forum member for many years, and a better software company I have never seen. They tirelessly work to improve their games, and right any wrongs that may have been done to their customers. Brad is a respected, active member of the forums, more so than any other CEO I can think of. He will do whatever it takes to make sure their games are the best they can be. I've never dealt with a company that cared so much about what it's customers thought of it's products, and I've certainly never before seen a CEO that was so open and direct in dealing with his customers.

How about you like to something that supports your claim that he's a reprehensible human being?
 
Koolhan: i pretty much agree with you. brad hasn't handled the whole WoM debacle well and in a way did blame the fanbase for it failing. at least at one point. i think now he has come to terms with it though and is really trying to make up for it.

i still think FE is average at best though and still a buggy mess but i believe the development support is and will be there to turn it into something great.
 
this is why im never an early adopter of games anymore. i wait on pretty much every game to be out for at least 6-months before getting it just for the buggy mess reasons. and even then some games take well over a year to really be in their 'final' incarnation. because companies know they can release problem-laden games early and people will still buy it means they dont feel a compunction to actually make the game shelf-ready. the assumption should be that the market would correct that with buyers saying they wont buy from you anymore but it doesnt. the biggest name properties from the biggest name publishers all have many bugs at launch. the smaller publishers/developers are only slightly more vulnerable to markets actually responding to them. and first-time publishers are the most at risk but they still do it too.

on a side note, it's also very affordable to stay a year behind the curve in the gaming world. not just for steam sales but for price reductions on pc parts. current best graphics cards are so expensive. i wait til they hit ~$150-$200 before i get one which is usually a year or so after it comes out. they are still decent for the games that are a year old and now sub-$20. it's about to be 2013 and i have a computer that I custom built in Jan. 2012 for early 2011 prices, for the most part. the motherboard is really the part worth paying extra for because in 2013 I can upgrade to 2012 quality parts cheaply to play those 2012 games i can get for cheap. it shouldn't be til 2015 til I build a whole new rig.
 
brad hasn't handled the whole WoM debacle well and in a way did blame the fanbase for it

Show me. Put your money where your mouth is and post a link to where he blamed the fans. Brad handled the WoM situation with class. I bought WoM at launch knowing it was garbage, but I bought it anyway, because I knew from previous experience that SD will do what it takes to make it into a great game. And they didn't disappoint, FE is a fantastic TBS 4X game.
 
Brad is a respected, active member of the forums, more so than any other CEO I can think of. He will do whatever it takes to make sure their games are the best they can be.

Sure. As long as you're willing to pay full price for the game and then wait two years for a remake of it! How could you possibly say such a thing when E:WoM happened?

How about you like to something that supports your claim that he's a reprehensible human being?

Here's an article that describes how he harassed his employee, insisted that he had the right to do so, and then blamed her for Elemental's horribleness.

http://kotaku.com/5940401/pc-gaming...after-she-sued-the-boss-for-sexual-harassment

But, this is all way off topic. We should stop.
 
GalCiv2 (classic in my book), Endless Space (lovely UI hopefully combat gets more love in expansion) , Fallen Enchantress, Distant Worlds (plus 2 expansions and they are all on sale now also I would recommend this the most) are all good choices. You can watch MadDjinn Lp's on Endless and Fallen, Good stuff.
 
Yeah, the best reason not to get Fallen Enchantress is because you have to give money to that slime to get it.

You do realize that there's two sides to every story. You or I don't have any idea what did or didn't happen in that scenario. Brad and SD have been great to me as a customer for years, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. She was pretty horrible too, and stole a laptop containing vital Elemental content, right before it went to market. What I didn't like was Brad's response to her email. It was unprofessional at best, although he admitted that.
 
Suggest moving off the topic about one person in the company. There are many good people working in that company and it is an excellent game (I play it and really enjoy it as well as loving G&K).

Try not to make character assassination normal in every day life, even if you see it in politics all the time, and it has become normalized in that arena.

Cheers
 
You do realize that there's two sides to every story. You or I don't have any idea what did or didn't happen in that scenario. Brad and SD have been great to me as a customer for years, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. She was pretty horrible too, and stole a laptop containing vital Elemental content, right before it went to market. What I didn't like was Brad's response to her email. It was unprofessional at best, although he admitted that.

I love how you say you don't know what happened and that you'll give him the benefit of the doubt, then in the very next sentence you say for definite that she's a thief. If he's bad it's a "maybe he did, I don't know, I'll let him off" but if she's bad it's definite and she's "horrible".

Let's see some emails.

Email from Brad Wardell's employee to him:

Please never touch my hair or any of my body parts; not even jokingly.
Please do not talk about my private life or about my boyfriend/future husband in any terms especially negative terms.
Please be careful with your "jokes" which are at many times inappropriate, sexist, vulgar and very embarrassing not only to me, but everyone present.
Please keep your negative personal opinions of others (including family members and/or coworkers) not present at the time of your comments, to yourself. I feel, at times, it puts me in a very uncomfortable position.

With the above few behavioral changes, I'm hoping our previously friendly and professional relationship can be reestablished.


Reply from Brad Wardell:

[Wardell's reply began cordially, "Thank you for bringing these up to me as I certainly do not want you to feel uncomfortable at work." He promised to be more careful in the future regarding items one and two, but then continued:]

#3, however is not acceptable to me. I am an inappropriate, sexist, vulgar and embarrassing person and I'm not inclined to change my behavior. If this is a problem, you need to find another job.

#4, Again, I am not willing to adapt my behavior to suit others. If you find my behavior problematic, I recommend finding another job.

I'm not some manager or coworker of yours. I own the company. It, and your job there, exist to suit my purposes, not vice versa. The company is not an end unto itself, it is a means to an end which is to further the objectives of its shareholders (in this case, me).


The man is human excrement, and the fact that people defend him or advocate actually giving him money blows my mind.

Here's a legal analysis of the cases between him and his employee and how well it's likely to go for him. TL;DR - Not very well at all.
 
I love how you say you don't know what happened and that you'll give him the benefit of the doubt, then in the very next sentence you say for definite that she's a thief. If he's bad it's a "maybe he did, I don't know, I'll let him off" but if she's bad it's definite and she's "horrible".

Let's see some emails.

Email from Brad Wardell's employee to him:

Please never touch my hair or any of my body parts; not even jokingly.
Please do not talk about my private life or about my boyfriend/future husband in any terms especially negative terms.
Please be careful with your "jokes" which are at many times inappropriate, sexist, vulgar and very embarrassing not only to me, but everyone present.
Please keep your negative personal opinions of others (including family members and/or coworkers) not present at the time of your comments, to yourself. I feel, at times, it puts me in a very uncomfortable position.

With the above few behavioral changes, I'm hoping our previously friendly and professional relationship can be reestablished.


Reply from Brad Wardell:

[Wardell's reply began cordially, "Thank you for bringing these up to me as I certainly do not want you to feel uncomfortable at work." He promised to be more careful in the future regarding items one and two, but then continued:]

#3, however is not acceptable to me. I am an inappropriate, sexist, vulgar and embarrassing person and I'm not inclined to change my behavior. If this is a problem, you need to find another job.

#4, Again, I am not willing to adapt my behavior to suit others. If you find my behavior problematic, I recommend finding another job.

I'm not some manager or coworker of yours. I own the company. It, and your job there, exist to suit my purposes, not vice versa. The company is not an end unto itself, it is a means to an end which is to further the objectives of its shareholders (in this case, me).


The man is human excrement, and the fact that people defend him or advocate actually giving him money blows my mind.

Here's a legal analysis of the cases between him and his employee and how well it's likely to go for him. TL;DR - Not very well at all.

Like I said, I didn't like his response to her e-mail.
 
Like I said, I didn't like his response to her e-mail.

How did you like this?

Court records from the lawsuit show several troubling messages from Wardell to Miseta, as well as allegations of problematic in-person behavior. E-mail messages included in the records go back as far as March, 2008, and include a link to a sexually explicit YouTube video, a comment that Miseta was chosen to go to a conference "not just because you're 'hot'," and a 100-question "purity test" that he asked her to take and then send him her score from. The purity test includes questions like, "Have you engaged in group sex?," "Have you engaged in intercourse with an unconscious person, while conscious?," and, "Have you had anal intercourse?"

Witness depositions included in the case documents refer to multiple comments from Wardell to female employees about their breast and bra sizes, and one incident where he asked Miseta to attend a media tour because "[her] nipples look better on TV." They also describe a time on a media tour when Wardell's visit to the hotel room Miseta and another female colleague were sharing made Miseta feel uncomfortable.
 
Brad's clearly made a few mistakes. Who among us hasn't?
 
Hey guys,

I know this is a bit off-topic, but I've been growing slightly tired of Civ. I still plan on playing a lot more, but I've logged 450 hours and would like an alternative. So would you guys recommend Endless Space or Elemental: Fallen Enchantress?

Both are on sale on Steam now, so quick replies are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Haven't tried Fallen Enchantress, but based on admittedly cursory experience I'd steer clear of Endless Space. It's generic, low-difficulty, with abysmal AI, overly simplified resource management, a poor Facebook-style 'rock-paper-scissors' card game to determine combat results which makes the AI very predictable and easy to beat in combat, and tech progression so rapid that it hardly seems to make any difference which order you follow the initially complex-looking tech tree. I keep meaning to give it more of a fair shot to see if it gets better, but merely opening the program reminds me just how boring the experience was.

Be warned, also, if you're coming to it having heard comparisons with games like Master of Orion 2, as it pays only superficial lip service to these. You can 'design' your ships after a fashion, but in a very limited fashion with constrained weapon and system slots which are basically just variants of +1 damage/armour, and the mechanics of the combat system mean there is no payoff for advanced weapons that makes them feel any different - in MOO, your ship designs manifestly changed how the game played, and allowed for oddities like black hole generators that did something unique, but ES allows nothing of the kind.

I always got a feel for the different races of the MOO games, for all that they cheerfully ripped off other franchises for the names and fit fairly standard alien archetypes, but the ES are standard stereotypes that do nothing to inspire (and who wants "Good/Evil" alliegances in a sci-fi game?).

Diplomacy doesn't seem necessary or useful, which is a shame since there's a system for researching different diplomacy options.

Galaxy sizes are too small to be interesting, and the artefacts you can occasionally turn up are, again, generic "+1 production of X" effects, and make no attempts to disguise that fact (while Natives in MOO2 were effectively just a food bonus, you got native worker icons on your planet, and the native workers could be killed, making it feel more like a unique type of bonus).

Overall, it's more like a turn-based version of Sins of a Solar Empire (a space RTS) without any of the combat detail than a true space TBS.

Forget Endless space get Distant worlds it is much better than Endless space.

This is very true, but Distant Worlds is daunting, overpriced (with expansions - it's on sale now until January, but still expensive) and with a poor interface; the first expansion is essentially an interface patch which you have to pay for. Also not turn-based, although it's the only real-time game out there that matches or exceeds the complexity of turn-based strategy options.

I used to be rather down on Sins of a Solar Empire, but having given it another try I have to say that this is a good and interestingly unique game, but again real-time. And like a more traditional RTS, it ultimately boils down to "who has the bigger economy = who has the bigger fleet = who wins" largely regardless of fleet composition and grand strategy; it just takes a lot longer to play to that stage than, say, Starcraft. And while adding diplomacy to an RTS is a nice idea, since diplomacy just serves as a way to get extra combat bonuses it produces some conceptually bizarre outcomes (such as "Armor Pacts" and the like where a diplomatic agreement with another faction improves your ships' armour, weapons etc.).
 
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