Ideologies are good for 3/4 Victory Types

Are there machines generating all these incorrect-info articles about BNW? Is that what happens?
Machine writing programs are tested out on gamers expecting a new release to tell if we can distinguish the terrible grammar and collage of known info from a legit Human author?

Why are there so many bad incorrect articles out there on this game?

Because gaming journalism is one of the biggest jokes in modern history. They get paid to advertise and cover big titles like CoD, Halo, BF etc.
 
It looks like some of the Tenets are quite valuable. Does that mean (since you have expend culture) you basically stop working on all of the nine Trees and save/spend on Tenets once you get there?
 
i wonder what kind of tenets they'll use for Autocracy-Culture....they have to be careful, so much of the Fascist Culture (which can be seen with Neo Nazis and White Supremacists) is inherently tied up with Anti-Semitism and Ubermensch and Herrenvolk etc....

Order and Freedom dont really have those kind of touchy subjects they have to skirt around:
Order can use the Comintern-esque Tenets for the Diplomacy, the only dodgy one may be the atrocities on the Eastern Front that they may brush up against for Domination
Freedom as an idea and Ideology is kind pure, regardless of the conduct of some Liberal Democracies in reality, so that should be fine...
 
Of course as you point out, all of the nations associated with Freedom (a complete abstraction, like Order) weren't really simply about "Freedom" and plenty of Liberal Democracies, including America, their prime example, have committed atrocities and been at one point white supremacist nations, so I think they'll be okay with creating a "cleaner" version of Autocracy if they can BS with Freedom as they are.
 
so, what do we think each Ideology gets? there is a bit of arithmetic involved.....

Easier to express in terms of what type they WON'T help with.

My best guess is that:

Autocracy: Won't help towards a Diplomatic victory.

Liberty: Won't help towards a Domination victory.

Order: Won't help towards a Culture victory.
 
Easier to express in terms of what type they WON'T help with.

My best guess is that:

Autocracy: Won't help towards a Diplomatic victory.

Liberty: Won't help towards a Domination victory.

Order: Won't help towards a Culture victory.

we already know Autocracy doesnt help with Science....from the new video
 
Yeah I think that although in real life "Freedom civs" have been militaristic, you cant deny that Autocratic and Order Civs have been even more. Think about Soviet Union, North-Korea or National Socialist Germany. They put most of their resources to Army. When you compare Soviet Union and United States, Soviets spends much bigger part of their resources to their Army.

Foreign Legion played big part in defending French interests in countries that were conquered earlier, for example in Algeria. In Civ terms these were French territory.

The USA spend more on the military than everyone else in total
 
The USA spend more on the military than everyone else in total

Sure, now we do.

But it's true, back when the soviet union was around, even then gross I think they spent less than us. But their economy was so much worse that they spent far more percentage of their budget on military. Similarly with North Korea, and the autocratic nations (although its kind of hard to compare WW2 germany with modern day anything, due to everything being so different).
 
Of course as you point out, all of the nations associated with Freedom (a complete abstraction, like Order) weren't really simply about "Freedom" and plenty of Liberal Democracies, including America, their prime example, have committed atrocities and been at one point white supremacist nations, so I think they'll be okay with creating a "cleaner" version of Autocracy if they can BS with Freedom as they are.

:agree:

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i wonder what kind of tenets they'll use for Autocracy-Culture....they have to be careful, so much of the Fascist Culture (which can be seen with Neo Nazis and White Supremacists) is inherently tied up with Anti-Semitism and Ubermensch and Herrenvolk etc....

Order and Freedom dont really have those kind of touchy subjects they have to skirt around:
Order can use the Comintern-esque Tenets for the Diplomacy, the only dodgy one may be the atrocities on the Eastern Front that they may brush up against for Domination
Freedom as an idea and Ideology is kind pure, regardless of the conduct of some Liberal Democracies in reality, so that should be fine...

They're not really stuck to Nazi-Germany for inspiration. There's also Mussolini and Franco, WWII Japan (which they already got Kamikaze from), some minor fascist dictators in intra bellum Europe, plus a bunch of right-wing dictators and general nut jobs around the world like Pinochet, Idi Amin, the last Shah of Iran, etc. One of the tenets that could do for Autocracy for example is to make Missionaries, Inquisitors and Religious pressure stronger in your own territory.
 
Dennis Shirk: "If I choose say, Order, and you’re Freedom, and I’m generating all this Tourism, my influence is going to start pressing on your empire and your people are going to start getting unhappy. If you let it go on too long, you basically have to either declare war on me or switch to my ideology. Your cities might start flipping to my civilization if they riot too much."

I think this quote kinda implies that you will not be locked out of a particular win condition. He refers to Order producing Tourism which most here have agreed Order would probably be lackluster in terms of Culture production. It would be pointless to let Order utilize city flipping mechanics and Tourism in general if they had no use for it in officially winning other than maybe taking a few cities.

Also, it does make sense that no civ should be locked out of bonuses pertaining to diplo (WC) due to everyone being forcibly part of it regardless. It plays a big part in making diplo more prominent in the expansion.

(Been lurking the forums unregistered while waiting for the release but finally had to cave and join the discussion. Was never a history buff at all when i was younger but am now becoming more and more of a history buff the more i get involved with civ games. 25 and wishing i would have had more creative history teachers in school so i would have gotten interested at a younger age. Never too late to start learning though, and im really enjoying it.)
 
Yeah, that does make sense. Since tourism is linked to culture and it needs to be available to everyone so that the 'ideology' fight can occur, every ideology needs some advantages to tourism. Which then basically means that the other three victories are not present in one of the ideologies, so Autocracy: No Science Victory, and Freedom and Order with no Domination or Diplomatic advantages.
 
Yeah, that does make sense. Since tourism is linked to culture and it needs to be available to everyone so that the 'ideology' fight can occur, every ideology needs some advantages to tourism. Which then basically means that the other three victories are not present in one of the ideologies, so Autocracy: No Science Victory, and Freedom and Order with no Domination or Diplomatic advantages.

I am on the side of the argument that says Order will not have culture bonuses. Diplomatic seems more like the linked victory condition among all civs due to the nature of the WC and UN forcing everyone to be involved.

Technically the Ideal struggle can be somewhat lessened by taking the path of least resistance when you first choose one based on which ideal is already strongly present in the world. Sure this hinders you somewhat but i find it hard to believe they would reduce Domination victory bonuses down to only 1 tree. Its possible, we will see when more info is released.
 
This rumor that Ideologies will lock out win conditions seems questionable at best. It wouldn't make for good gameplay, it seems arbitrary, and it's not in the style of Civ5 (where opportunity cost and soft limits reign supreme).

The exact quote from Ed Beach: "The different victory types are, um ... allied with Ideologies. So, each Ideology is good at three out of the four victory types. And so if I'm going for a space race for instance, I have to go either Freedom or Order. [...] So that helps sort of steer you toward a certain direction with which Ideology you're choosing."

I guess the confusion is where he said you "have to go either Freedom or Order" - I think he said this with an implied "if I want to be efficient". His tone throughout, as well as the first, second and fourth sentences all strongly imply that Autocracy will simply not get strong science bonuses to me. Nothing here about locking out victory conditions.
 
This rumor that Ideologies will lock out win conditions seems questionable at best. It wouldn't make for good gameplay, it seems arbitrary, and it's not in the style of Civ5 (where opportunity cost and soft limits reign supreme).

The exact quote from Ed Beach: "The different victory types are, um ... allied with Ideologies. So, each Ideology is good at three out of the four victory types. And so if I'm going for a space race for instance, I have to go either Freedom or Order. [...] So that helps sort of steer you toward a certain direction with which Ideology you're choosing."

I guess the confusion is where he said you "have to go either Freedom or Order" - I think he said this with an implied "if I want to be efficient". His tone throughout, as well as the first, second and fourth sentences all strongly imply that Autocracy will simply not get strong science bonuses to me. Nothing here about locking out victory conditions.

The confusion came from an article written in response to the newest video but it did not come from any official dev source. The logic that a Freedom Civ locked out of a military victory could simply conquer all capitals and change to Autocracy and instantly win i think speaks to how pointless it would be to lock victory conditions. Even if they had to wait through the few turns of Anarchy before it registered it would seem pretty random overall. It goes against the freedom civ games promote as well as human nature to be able to change from an RP standpoint.
 
Was the article written in response to the video or just released the same time?
 
The article is just some dude like us watching the video, but because gaming journalism is kind of a joke he doesn't actually acknowledge that as straightforwardly as he should. I'm pretty certain that the "lock" thing is not true, and we've kind gone over it at greater length than it deserves.
 
That's semantics guys. I think everybody agrees now that it doesn't mean locked out, but "no tenets that help you achieve this victory". And since Tourism is so interlinked with Ideologies (i.e. unhappiness, city switching), it makes sense that every ideology has tourism benefits*. And because culture victory is tied into tourism, every ideology will be good for a culture victory, right? (but I can guess that they won't harmonize as much with the Aesthetics or Patronage or any other tree you've chosen before).


*I'd argue that Autocracy would be the one where tourism doens't make the most sense, Order with its talk of Egality and a World revolution would be something that advocates the 'tourism' that BNW wants to emulate the most. That works as well for the 'Free World', but it doesn't seem to make sense for Autocracy whose main argument is that their own nation is the better ;) (dictators band together, but not because of and underlieing ideology)
 
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