So, owning this...

would you say its worth picking up CIV IV?

I dont really enjoy pc games, i tend to enjoy just kicking back on the console, but i really do like this game, its addictive and it looks great. So would you say its worth moving to the ultimate civ IV or is owning this (I own the full version) good enough? Is it basically CIV IV just a bit dumbed down or?

Whats your opinions guys? Should i make the leap?

Civ Rev is basically PC Civ dumbed down And sped up. (the dumbing down is for the purpose of speeding up)

If you want the complete experience, go for Civ 4:BTS but be prepared to sacrifice large chunks of time (also make sure to get the Unofficial Patch to go with the Official patch, there are a few annoying bugs otherwise.. check the civ 4 BTS forum for the unofficial patch)

but when you hear the term 'Dumbed down', it does not mean that it has been crapified, it is actually a smarter approach to the genre

Revolution is like a faster and arcade version of the previous Civilizations, but if you like the main concept of the game... you are going to love civilization IV.
This is why Sid launched this game only for consoles, to catch the attention of new gamers. Good Job, I guess ;D

If you don't want to get seriously addicted to waiting for the "next turn" do not pick up Civ IV. I've never played any strategy games before I played Civ IV, and I am now a big fan of them. I find myself having a hard time quitting when I play marathon games. Always want to wait for the next technology or building to be built so you can get something else going. The amount of control you have over your nation is amazing. I picked up the gold edition last fall since it already had one of the expansions packed in. If you really like the concepts in Civ: Rev, Civ IV really goes into depth on them.

So I played the demo a few times through yesterday... I've been playing civ since Civ I when I was about 12. In general CivRev is actually a little more fun than I expected, but I was thinking about it, and I'm likenning the depth of strategy and complexity to that of about Civ I. To me, that's a HUGE step back. For the original poster, what I'm basically saying is that Civ IV is about 6x more complex than CivRev, and consequently slows down for that very reason; but if you like figuring out how to get an extra hammer or an extra beaker out of your city in CivRev, you'll love Civ IV... I've been considering a comparison of basic game concepts present in Civ I, Civ IV, and Civ Rev.

Civ I:
- Contains concept of population happiness. This is the ultimate determinant of how large your city can grow.
- Can't remember if Civ I had luxury taxes (divert commerce into luxuries to make people happy) or if it was just from making city people do entertaining instead of working a square.
- Contains concept of consumed food - each citizen consumes 2 food so to grow you need sqaures that provide surplus.
- Contains concept of maintanence costs. Each building costs gold to maintain.
- Contains concept of terrain movement cost - hills, forest, etc take 2 turns of movement, roads only 1/3 turn. Railroad provides unlimitted movement. The obsolesence of Railroad in CivRev sort of bothers me - it was a critical turning point into industrialization in Civ I and Civ II. Probably the biggest turning point in the game, IMO.
- Concept of unit maintanence - units cost gold to maintain once they're built.
- Biggest difference: Civ I has concept of Workers - units that build and improve on terrain squares - they build roads on individual squares, build farms, build mines, etc.

But there are things in CivRev that aren't in Civ I...
- CivRev contains concept of culture (although very simplified)
- CivRev contains concept of Great People.
- Contains concept of Attack Strength / Defense Strength, and damaged units (Civ I just had unit strength)
- Contains concept of Armies and also of unit promotions.

So in general I'd say CivRev is just slightly less complicated than Civ I. Civ IV though, is a whole other animal. It has everything in Civ I and Civ Rev, plus:
- Concept of health. As a city grows it becomes unhealthy and that will waste food production, which then limits growth. It's a second growth-limitting factor besides happiness.
- Concept of controlable resources: Luxuries (like gold) to make people happy, food resources (rice, wheat) to add health, and strategic resources (iron, coal) to make certain types of units and to build railroads, etc.
- With controllable resources comes trade of those resources among civs.
- Expanded concept of culture - each cities culture clearly determines borders and territory between neighbouring civs.
- Concept of religion (affects happiness as well as wealth generation).
- Corportations (use controllable resources to generate wealth)
- National Wonders - these are wonders that are available to every nation independant of other nations, but only after the nation reaches a milestone (like, after building so many banks, you can build Wall Street). Incidently, are wonders in CivRev able to be duplicated? If so they kind of (unfortunately) act like national wonders. World Wonders can only be build by one person, so the "Wonder Race" is a critical part of every Civ game since Civ started.
- Civ IV replaces building maintanance of Civ I with city maintanence. Each new city costs gold/turn; more if it's further from the capital.
- Concept of other government states (called Civics) beyond just one type of "main" government. There are 6 civic categories (market system (free market), representation (voting system), religion (organized or free religion, etc) and each category has 5 options.

Hmm, I think that's a pretty good comparison between the three. I probably missed some concepts here and there; feel free to chime in if anyone else has more. Ultimately it's the interaction between all the elements of complexity in a game like Civ IV that make it such an in-depth strategy game...

Why does food have to come from immediately around the city. It is extraordinarily unrealistic. I don't think any food that I eat is from within 500 miles of where I live to be honest. Food should have been tradeable, especially in the later game. This is a major flaw in the game in my opinion. To the point where it kind of ruined the game a bit for me.

Unless corporations somehow addressed this issue. I never played Beyond the Sword version

Yeah corporations do distribute food - well actually, they create food from the food strategic resources, not from regular food squares.

Felgar said:

...

Click to expand...

a few errors there as I posted somewhere else (Civilization specific+Treasury level+First discovery bonuses in Civ Rev, Attack/Defense in Civ I, 'Hitpoints' in Civ Rev)

TheDisco said:

Why does food have to come from immediately around the city. It is extraordinarily unrealistic. I don't think any food that I eat is from within 500 miles of where I live to be honest. Food should have been tradeable, especially in the later game. This is a major flaw in the game in my opinion. To the point where it kind of ruined the game a bit for me.

Unless corporations somehow addressed this issue. I never played Beyond the Sword version

Click to expand...

... come on, this is a console game and is not the idea be playing for days one game, can you just try to imagine that you can have a apple tree or something like that close to you city? , you want to play something like that try Knights and Merchants..... you need to have a lot of time to spend....

Actualy Civ Rev DOES address this, it allows you to distribute food... to do it

1. Switch to republic
2. use food in city A to increase the population by 1
3. build a settler in city A
4. move settler to City B
5. press (Y)

now the food that was around City A has been used in City B

KAZUY4 said:

... come on, this is a console game and is not the idea be playing for days one game, can you just try to imagine that you can have a apple tree or something like that close to you city? , you want to play something like that try Knights and Merchants..... you need to have a lot of time to spend....

Click to expand...

I think you misread my post. I was complaining slightly about Civ IV actually, not Civ Rev. There are a lot of things I like about Civ Rev, and I'll most definately get it when it comes out if multiplayer looks active enough. My only big complaint so far is that resources now have much less importance than they do in Civ IV. I loved resource wars...

Felgar said:

Yeah corporations do distribute food - well actually, they create food from the food strategic resources, not from regular food squares.

Click to expand...

I might have to get that expansion after all. Not good for my sleep...

Id seriously doubt, anywhere in the world, 400 years ago, there was anyone who could sustain themselves soley on food grown 500 miles away...