Why no political parties?

I believe that if we want this experience to be as much like an actual Civilization as possible, we need to allow political parties. I am not suggesting that we say the dominant political party would make all the rules, i am saying that there should be able to be opposing ideas. For example, one person could open the thread for, say, opposing the use of any navy (Just an example). This group could talk amongst itself in its very own thread while the Navy Only group talks within its own thread. This way, the two groups come to a verdict and the all agree to vote a certain way on the polls. Those two groups are only an example, of course it would be slightly more complex, but thats the general idea. However, it would not be mandatory to vote this way, but if you didnt want to then you probably wouldn't be in the group. If your wondering how this varies from Citizens Groups it gives you the power to say that they all vote a certain way. Recently i was informed that if you say, "We area all gonna vote the same way" Its a political party. Well, i say we talk about it in this thread and then move to a vote to make it legal. If this passes the political parties could be in the same thread as the citizens groups, or it could have a different thread in the same lay out. Thank you for your time and your comments.

The Great Iguanaman

I often asked myself the same question. I don't see the harm in political parties but we have done well without them so far.

but just think about all the fun it would add. mmmmmmmmmm fun

i like the sound of this idea. if anybody has a reason why this isnt such a great plan let me know, but i think it could both add to the fun and enfranchise citizens who currently have little say in the affairs of government. however, i would recommend a coalition government modeled after the german bundestag. anyone wanting an explanation of how that system works can find it here: http://dw-world.de/english/0,3367,6591_A_607872,00.html

I believe that it was Thomas Jefferson who warned America not to use political parties, and I believe he was right.

Since they are not a necessity for an effective election campaign, I do not see what good they would actually do. I do think that they would cause an unnecessary duplicity in regards to many issues, where those who hold a very valid "third" point of view would not be heard.

And, Neutral leader, it is not a matter of people telling you what is wrong with them, but rather you need to tell us what is so good about them.

Eyrei, its not gonna send our beloved Three Books to heck. Its simply going to give the people more of a say. If need be i would love to sit down and right the specific roles of these political parties, but i see no need for that right now at such a young stage in these discussions. also, i would hope that rather agreeing with it or condeming it, that people who post here suggest the best way to execute this idea. Please help me help you by suggesting possible ways to maximize this idea to its full potential. Thank you.

The Great Iguanaman

Originally posted by Great Iguanaman
Eyrei, its not gonna send our beloved Three Books to heck. Its simply going to give the people more of a say. If need be i would love to sit down and right the specific roles of these political parties, but i see no need for that right now at such a young stage in these discussions. also, i would hope that rather agreeing with it or condeming it, that people who post here suggest the best way to execute this idea. Please help me help you by suggesting possible ways to maximize this idea to its full potential. Thank you.

The Great Iguanaman

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Believe me, I don't exactly 'cherish' our lawbooks.

I do not want to help you 'execute' this idea, because I don't think it is a good idea. Also, this is not the first time we have had this discussion.

Like I said, political parties do anything but give the people more say. Those that do not agree with the views of a major party are essentially 'swept under the rug'. It also causes unnecessary discord among the citizenry.

Now, tell me what these political parties will do that is worth them causing these problems?

Originally posted by Great Iguanaman
Eyrei, its not gonna send our beloved Three Books to heck. Its simply going to give the people more of a say. If need be i would love to sit down and right the specific roles of these political parties, but i see no need for that right now at such a young stage in these discussions. also, i would hope that rather agreeing with it or condeming it, that people who post here suggest the best way to execute this idea. Please help me help you by suggesting possible ways to maximize this idea to its full potential. Thank you.

The Great Iguanaman

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The problem with political parties is that people won't get their true say. The head of the party might say "Vote for XYZ leader". If they have 20 people in their party, that's 20 votes for them. But, not all of those people might agree with the decision. It might be 13 votes for that person. And if a person goes against a party, then that's a formula for trouble.

Mayber i keep thinking it, but it will give the citizens, like me, more of a voice. How many people have you seen in your day pop up say something, realize it hardly matters, and you never here from them again. Not only would this bring more people into the game, but it would improve the quality of gameplay for those of us with the title 'Chieftan'.

The Great Iguanaman

Citizens still have a say in the game. Infact, look at disorganizer and Shaitan (before he bacame a mod).

sorry chieftess, i was typing my reply when you sprung in. There would be much discussion before anyone said "Vote this way". And the people will have an equal say in this. At the end, someone would say, "So we all agree to vote for XYZ?" If everyone agrees then thats how they vote. Its really a good idea if you simply look past all your earlier discussions about politcal parties in past games.

The Great Iguanaman

Originally posted by Great Iguanaman
Mayber i keep thinking it, but it will give the citizens, like me, more of a voice. How many people have you seen in your day pop up say something, realize it hardly matters, and you never here from them again. Not only would this bring more people into the game, but it would improve the quality of gameplay for those of us with the title 'Chieftan'.

The Great Iguanaman

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You can edit your title.

It has nothing to do with what someone's title is anyway. If you make a good point, people will probably listen to you. And BTW, a good chunk of our citizens are very new to the game. If you expect that everything you say will be take as gospel, you are going to be disappointed, and I do not mean that in a derogatory sense. Just a little bit of advice. Take it or leave it.

Anyway, if you have a good reason for implementing political parties, please post it.

About once a month someone tries to sell the Demogame political parties. Luckily, the majority of the players here have not been buying. Political parties will just divide the citizens we are trying to unite. I think the best way to execute this idea is put it up against the wall and shoot it. 'Course that's just my opinion.

Chieftess, youre all over this.
So whats that two, well really one, citizen who has a say. I just want to improve the voice of the rest of us.

The Great Iguanaman

Originally posted by Great Iguanaman
sorry chieftess, i was typing my reply when you sprung in. There would be much discussion before anyone said "Vote this way". And the people will have an equal say in this. At the end, someone would say, "So we all agree to vote for XYZ?" If everyone agrees then thats how they vote. Its really a good idea if you simply look past all your earlier discussions about politcal parties in past games.

The Great Iguanaman

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Still, that would be obligating new citizens to vote one way. Newer citizens don't always know how the games works, and an entreprenuring (I know I spelled that wrong) political party leader can use that to their advantage.

Originally posted by Great Iguanaman
Chieftess, youre all over this.
So whats that two, well really one, citizen who has a say. I just want to improve the voice of the rest of us.

The Great Iguanaman

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In all seriousness, if you want to argue whether we can have political parties, that is all well and good. However, do not pretend to speak for 'everyone'.

I hope you do realize that I am a citizen here as well.

Originally posted by Great Iguanaman
Chieftess, youre all over this.
So whats that two, well really one, citizen who has a say. I just want to improve the voice of the rest of us.

The Great Iguanaman

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More citizens can be like that. There's nothing stopping you from doing so - it's just that we simply don't allow political parties because of problems in other demogames.

well we've heard from our 1st Culural Minister, our moderator, and our Great President. So far NL is the only one with no 'say' that has said anyone about this. And i believe that those stats alone prove my very point. The citizens want a political party, the powers dont because it would take some of there power. Anyway, im not here to make enemies, i just want the people to havemore say.

The Great Iguanaman

Originally posted by Great Iguanaman
well we've heard from our 1st Culural Minister, our moderator, and our Great President. So far NL is the only one with no 'say' that has said anyone about this. And i believe that those stats alone prove my very point. The citizens want a political party, the powers dont because it would take some of there power. Anyway, im not here to make enemies, i just want the people to havemore say.

The Great Iguanaman

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Hehe. That is the biggest load of rhetoric I have heard in a while.

So, what if most citizens have not even had a chance to look at this thread yet?

You still haven't made a case for the benefit that political parties will bring...

Originally posted by Great Iguanaman
well we've heard from our 1st Culural Minister, our moderator, and our Great President.

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hehe.. I'm a mod too, but I'm being impartial.

So far NL is the only one with no 'say' that has said anyone about this. And i believe that those stats alone prove my very point. The citizens want a political party...

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They do? I didn't see a recent poll on it. You can always start another discussion on it. But, I'm sure it will be met with a lot of resistence.