Newbie questions (Yea thoose annoing questions never end :) )

makrophage · Feb 2, 2006

Hello!
I have played Civ I and II quite a lot but unfortunately i had no time for civ III and have fallen behind with this cunning wonderful game.(Last time i played was approx 7 yrs ago)
Now i decided to buy Civ 4 and play it like in the "good old days"

When i saw civ 4 i instantly felt home and it looked quite similar but playing my first game on chieftain revealed that i could beat the AI but it was very close.
Especially i have problems and questions about the new terrain improvements, the amount of the cities and city specialisation.
I have read some articles but some questions are still in my mind:

1) In some articles its mentioned that in civ 4 you can win and be quite good with a small empire too, like with 5-10 cities (unlike civ 1-2 where city spamming was the rule of thumb), especially because of the upkeep and distance penalty you ge now.
BUT all example games i read through (sullas introduction and silians) contained a fast city sprading and quite aggressive warmongering(taking over the cities from at last 2 civilisations).
I played 2 games and in my opinion the old rule ist still accurate, expand fast, the faster u are, the bigger u will get (Played first game chieftain, aggressive expansion, city founding and killing 2 AI civs, won. Second game noble, concentrated on 6 cities tried the "peaceful" way and lost. Aztek began building spaceship parts when i just researched railroad)
So what strategy is now the better one: small empire concentration on the cities u have or building as many u can and conquering all u see?

2)Understanding terrain improvements is a pain in the ass: Half of the articles are telling that cottage spamming would be the best way to get commerce and through wealth enough science and money, others favor traditional hammer/food production.
I tried cottage spamming in one game with the result that i had quite a lot of money but almost no production at all so (wonder)building took centuries and the result was that every wonder was build amost by my enemies.

So if u specialize a city ho do you produce in it if u do not have hammers, only cottage/commerce?

And almost everyone praises coastal cities because of the commerce but same problem here, a lot of food and commerce through water tiles but always a big production problems, so in my first 2 games the coastal cities with a lot of open water tiles were my weakest ones cuz lack of production (like bank taking 50 to 100 turns ARGH)

3) I do not know if its a bug but its annoying:
When i am playing i always want to micromanage my towns and during my second game i recognized that somehow the AI changes the specialists as it likes, e.g i put in one town 3 entertainers and some rounds later when i checked back they were away, instead 2 priests were assigned... and it was the whole game like this i always had to control my cities and look if it was still like i wanted to be.(Yes the AI inside the town was turned off checked it similar times) Did not find an explanation for this? Does anyone have similar problems?

Thanks in advance and lots of questions ahead i am sure

MrCynical · Feb 2, 2006

1)It is quite possible to win with a fairly small empire, but you have to learn how to maximize the production of your few cities. I've won several games where I was about 5th or 6th in land area. Whether it's the best approach is debatable. Rapid expansion and conquest is still possible in Civ 4, but it requires a lot more caution as the cities you gain may not pay for themselves. You can cripple your economy by expanding too rapidly and the damage is often very hard to reverse, particularly as it will cause you to fall far behind on tech. You can overdo the small number of very powerful cities approach as well, and it takes a while to get the hang of building powerful specialised cities. I'd say go for a happy medium; expand at a reasonable rate, but don't be at all bothered if you aren't top in land area.

2)There are numerous articles in the strategy forum on this subject. Bear in mind that even on cottage spam approaches you should still have one or two production specialised cities for wonder construction, as well as a great person farm. Even commerce specialised cities ought to have a bit of production so they can build a few improvements, and once you're rich you can always buy them.

3)Are you sure the governor's switched off? it shouldn't be doing this.

DaviddesJ · Feb 2, 2006

makrophage said:
3) I do not know if its a bug but its annoying:
When i am playing i always want to micromanage my towns and during my second game i recognized that somehow the AI changes the specialists as it likes, e.g i put in one town 3 entertainers and some rounds later when i checked back they were away, instead 2 priests were assigned... and it was the whole game like this i always had to control my cities and look if it was still like i wanted to be.(Yes the AI inside the town was turned off checked it similar times) Did not find an explanation for this? Does anyone have similar problems?

There's a bug where, if you are using Caste System, and you change your civics, then it can affect your specialists (even if you remain in Caste System).

Artanis · Feb 2, 2006

makrophage said:
Hello!
I have played Civ I and II quite a lot but unfortunately i had no time for civ III and have fallen behind with this cunning wonderful game.(Last time i played was approx 7 yrs ago)
Now i decided to buy Civ 4 and play it like in the "good old days"

When i saw civ 4 i instantly felt home and it looked quite similar but playing my first game on chieftain revealed that i could beat the AI but it was very close.
Especially i have problems and questions about the new terrain improvements, the amount of the cities and city specialisation.
I have read some articles but some questions are still in my mind:

1) In some articles its mentioned that in civ 4 you can win and be quite good with a small empire too, like with 5-10 cities (unlike civ 1-2 where city spamming was the rule of thumb), especially because of the upkeep and distance penalty you ge now.
BUT all example games i read through (sullas introduction and silians) contained a fast city sprading and quite aggressive warmongering(taking over the cities from at last 2 civilisations).
I played 2 games and in my opinion the old rule ist still accurate, expand fast, the faster u are, the bigger u will get (Played first game chieftain, aggressive expansion, city founding and killing 2 AI civs, won. Second game noble, concentrated on 6 cities tried the "peaceful" way and lost. Aztek began building spaceship parts when i just researched railroad)
So what strategy is now the better one: small empire concentration on the cities u have or building as many u can and conquering all u see?

2)Understanding terrain improvements is a pain in the ass: Half of the articles are telling that cottage spamming would be the best way to get commerce and through wealth enough science and money, others favor traditional hammer/food production.
I tried cottage spamming in one game with the result that i had quite a lot of money but almost no production at all so (wonder)building took centuries and the result was that every wonder was build amost by my enemies.

So if u specialize a city ho do you produce in it if u do not have hammers, only cottage/commerce?

And almost everyone praises coastal cities because of the commerce but same problem here, a lot of food and commerce through water tiles but always a big production problems, so in my first 2 games the coastal cities with a lot of open water tiles were my weakest ones cuz lack of production (like bank taking 50 to 100 turns ARGH)

3) I do not know if its a bug but its annoying:
When i am playing i always want to micromanage my towns and during my second game i recognized that somehow the AI changes the specialists as it likes, e.g i put in one town 3 entertainers and some rounds later when i checked back they were away, instead 2 priests were assigned... and it was the whole game like this i always had to control my cities and look if it was still like i wanted to be.(Yes the AI inside the town was turned off checked it similar times) Did not find an explanation for this? Does anyone have similar problems?

Thanks in advance and lots of questions ahead i am sure

1) Yes, in general, "bigger is better" is still the case. HOWEVER, you have to be smart about it, and you are not doomed if you decide to stay at home and not to kill anybody (well, less doomed, at any rate :crazyeye:

)

If you expand too fast, you'll tank your economy, making you fall behind in tech, and generally screwing you over. Knowing when you should not expand is as important as knowing when you should.

2) Anytime you see somebody say "Do this every time, period", he's wrong. Period. You cannot just adhere to something religiously without taking the situation into account.

"Specialize your cities" doesn't mean "nothing but Cottages/Farms/Mines/whatever". It means "everything dedicated to making it better at using Cottages/Farms/Mines/whatever". A Production-specialized city will need Farms to feed its Mines. A Commerce-specialized city will need Mines to build its Banks and Farms to feed its Mines and Cottages. A Food-specialized city will need Mines to build its infrastructure.

Coastal cities generally have fairly bad production, yes...which is why I try to have at least a couple hills within a coastal city's "fat cross". You also need to prioritize what you want there (i.e. is that Factory really that important to a city that only outputs 8 hammers per turn in the first place?) When all else fails though, it's pretty common to break out the :whipped:

and use Slavery to get the essentials built.

3) Were you using Caste System when you assigned those Artists? It shouldn't ever take away specialists you've manually assigned, but if you were only able to assign them in the first place due to Caste System, changing to a different civic would force the computer to do something else with them.

Malarkey · Feb 2, 2006

makrophage said:
1) In some articles its mentioned that in civ 4 you can win and be quite good with a small empire too, like with 5-10 cities (unlike civ 1-2 where city spamming was the rule of thumb), especially because of the upkeep and distance penalty you ge now.
BUT all example games i read through (sullas introduction and silians) contained a fast city sprading and quite aggressive warmongering(taking over the cities from at last 2 civilisations).
I played 2 games and in my opinion the old rule ist still accurate, expand fast, the faster u are, the bigger u will get (Played first game chieftain, aggressive expansion, city founding and killing 2 AI civs, won. Second game noble, concentrated on 6 cities tried the "peaceful" way and lost. Aztek began building spaceship parts when i just researched railroad)
So what strategy is now the better one: small empire concentration on the cities u have or building as many u can and conquering all u see?

If I'm on a continent with 2-3 other civs, I don't usually expand more than 6 cities in the beginning using the chop method to spam settlers and workers. Once this is done, I'll build up my infrastructure for a while, since commerce is important, and getting those cottages down should be a priority if you plan to expand more. Once I have a bit of an army, and the money starts rolling in, it's time to take a few of the nearby enemy cities. Remember, everything in moderation. Go to war, take a few of their cities near your borders, and declare peace right afterwords. I usually do this before I get catapults, and before city defence becomes too much of a problem without them. The reason for doing this is twofold. One, taking enemy cities means you don't have to spam more settlers out so your cities can continue to grow. And two, they've already built up some infrastructure in and around those cities, so it'll be less work for you after you capture them. This will also likely put you ahead of them in score. I don't normally grow any larger than 10-12 cities myself, and anything else I usually just raise when I capture them. Micromanaging 30 cities is just not my cup of tea, and you can easily win without a lot of cities. Of course, I'm strictly a domination player myself.

EDIT: I also wanted to mention, if you find yourself falling behind in tech or score with the AI civs, declare war on them and raise a few of their cities if they're too far out of your way, or capture them if you like, but just remember the distance penalties. The AI tends to drop their research when they're at war, and it will give you a chance to play catch up. Raising or capturing their cities will also deal a devistating blow to their economy, meaning their research will slow down.

makrophage said:
2)Understanding terrain improvements is a pain in the ass: Half of the articles are telling that cottage spamming would be the best way to get commerce and through wealth enough science and money, others favor traditional hammer/food production.
I tried cottage spamming in one game with the result that i had quite a lot of money but almost no production at all so (wonder)building took centuries and the result was that every wonder was build amost by my enemies.

So if u specialize a city ho do you produce in it if u do not have hammers, only cottage/commerce?

One way of getting hammers is to build mines on hills. Even if there's no resources like silver or iron, you still get a good deal of production from building mines. If the city isn't around any hills, and there's lots of food in the area, building workshops will increase production at the cost of food, and they will grow over time to give you more production in the future. Also, if you find yourself around a lot of hills, but little food, or commerce, you can build windmills on a few hills to give +1 food and coin. Windmills will also grow when you aquire a new tech that I can't remember at the moment.

makrophage said:
3) I do not know if its a bug but its annoying:
When i am playing i always want to micromanage my towns and during my second game i recognized that somehow the AI changes the specialists as it likes, e.g i put in one town 3 entertainers and some rounds later when i checked back they were away, instead 2 priests were assigned... and it was the whole game like this i always had to control my cities and look if it was still like i wanted to be.(Yes the AI inside the town was turned off checked it similar times) Did not find an explanation for this? Does anyone have similar problems?

I'm not aware of this problem myself either. I've never had a specialist change jobs, or back to working the land. Are you patched to the latest version?

Bushface · Feb 2, 2006

re Makrophage's point 3 - I started a thread ("Forced Specialists") on a similar subject, since I've had a couple of unwanted specialists thrust upon me. I can't understand why, but it is slightly relieving to find that I am not entirely alone with this problem. Help, anybody ?

Newbie questions (Yea thoose annoing questions never end :) )

makrophage

Chieftain

MrCynical

Deity

DaviddesJ

Deity

Artanis

King

Malarkey

Chieftain

Bushface

Deity

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