My take on stuff

Toffer90 · May 17, 2015

A WIP, this modmod will not give you a game that is meant to be played much further than the prehistoric era.
Consider it a demo where new interesting ideas can be experienced for the early part of the game.

The SVN development version only work on certain SVN revisions.
◘ Updated for rev.11253
◘ v0.2.6 is the C2C v41 edition.

I've been tinkering with civics with the main goal of stalling early expansion, and keeping cash flow more balanced.
In the process I also wanted to make some of the earlier civics such as banditry, militia, chiefdom and tribal warfare more relevant later in the game for nations that are small and/or behind in tech without making them better choices for the leading nations. Culture Accumulation, especially early, have been nerfed.

-As of now I've mostly made changes to everything but civics; I keep seeing other stuff I want to change and let those smaller side projects distract me from the main project, namely civics.
-Huge tweaks to tech tree, promotions, gamespeeds, difficulties... etc.
-Early civics (Prehistoric-Ancient) are the only ones I've worked on as of yet.

The "My take on Promotions" modmod has been included and further developed in this modmod.

Spoiler Prehistoric Tech Tree. :

Spoiler Hide And Seek" Size Invisibility values :

Installation: Just drag & drop the top folder called assets to the caveman2cosmos folder and overwrite what's there.
Do start a new game with this modmod, it is not meant to be installed mid-game.

Alternative Tech tree modmod is needed for the tech tree to display correctly

Toffer90 · May 17, 2015

Plans ▬ Subject to change

Civic overview

Rule - What segment of society hold influence over the government
Power - Who in, or in what form does, the government hold power.
Order - How is order maintained, what form of law exist.
Union - What binds the nation together.
Military - What characterize the military, who are the soldiers and where does their real loyalties lie.
Border - How is the nations border maintained
Society - Society stage, what is the national focus for the society as a whole.
Structure - Social structure, what restricts or empowers the standing/worth of individuals in society.
Economy - What defines wealth and who controls the market.
Labor - How is work organized, and what privileges does the workforce hold.
Welfare - How does the government handle the less fortunate.
Farming - How is the primary sector organized.
Religion - In what ways are religion and state intertwined.
Information - How does the state handle information, who knows what and how much. Misinformation?

I want to develop a policy screen which is opened from the civic screen.

Policies can be turned on and off without causing anarchy.
The policies available will depend on what civics you are using.
This screen is where you customize the civics in use.
Some policies will be mutually exclusive.
Policies may require techs more advanced than those that unlocks its required civics.

The Border civic category will then become policies.
The same may be done to the Information, Farming, Welfare, and Labor civic categories.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 17, 2015

You have not posted a link to the mod as far as I can see.

Toffer90 · May 17, 2015

Reserved.

Toffer90 · May 20, 2015

Reserved.

JosEPh_II · May 20, 2015

Edit: in my test (deity, eternity, giant map)

Would really like to have seen some results for Epic. There is no question that eternity skews horribly the potent for earning excess :gold:

/turn and all commerce.

Suggestion: maybe as a counterpoint you should run a Normal, deity, large with appropriately reduced # of starting AI.

I like your idea of early culture reduction as the AI seems to be able to extend it's culture far beyond what would seem normal in early game. And that culture spread is hard to reduce even through warfare.

As for reducing early expansion, that is a problem that Only rears it's head on Gamespeeds longer than Marathon/Snail. The current eco system and even BG's has made it very difficult to have 4 or 5 cities after tribalism is researched in the period up to Sed Life. It could be done but the eco costs meant that your treasure was always low and many times your :gold:

/turn was negative. Sometime seriously so that your empire would go on Strike and you had to start deleting units.

Overall I do agree the Civics do need revision. Several late Preh and Ancient era Civics are basically waste of time and get skipped over. 1 that comes to mind immediately is the one that comes after the Civic Barter and is supposed to be a Food centered counter for barter. It is impo a total waste and should be removed.

Just some thoughts and reactions to your efforts here. Keep at it.

JosEPh

JosEPh_II · May 20, 2015

I just d\l'd it.

JosEPh

Thunderbrd · May 20, 2015

Nice to see a strong minded modder working on civics finally. And doing it the right way and with the right objectives in my opinion.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 21, 2015

Toffer90 said:
Perhaps we should, in C2C, let smuggler shanty and assassins den be unlocked by the banditry civic as well; it would go well with this modmod and generally makes sense.
Perhaps someone with more experience with building requirement in XML, than me, should do this though.

The only difficulty with that is the units will have different civic requirements to the buildings that allow them.

Faustmouse · May 21, 2015

Toffer90 said:
And can't the requirement of the buildings be one civic OR another civic.

They can.

On the latter one:

I think it could be
<UnitCombatProductionModifiers> in the outermost tags?

Noriad2 · May 21, 2015

JosEPh_II said:
Overall I do agree the Civics do need revision. Several late Preh and Ancient era Civics are basically waste of time and get skipped over. 1 that comes to mind immediately is the one that comes after the Civic Barter and is supposed to be a Food centered counter for barter. It is impo a total waste and should be removed.
JosEPh

I think you mean the civic "subsistence" which compared to barter gives +10% food instead of +10% hammers. I agree that it is a weak choice. Its name also resembles another civic too much (subsistence agriculture).

I'd rename "subsistence" to something else (like "self-reliance"?) and give it +5% hammers, +20% food and higher unhealth compared to what subsistence is now. That would make it mildly competitive with barter. The unhealth is because it is known from studying skeletons that when people went from a hunter-gatherer society to a farming society, people tended to become shorter and less healthy, possibly due to less variation in their diet.

Toffer90 · May 21, 2015

Noriad2 said:
I'd rename "subsistence" to something else (like "self-reliance"?) and give it +5% hammers, +20% food and higher unhealth compared to what subsistence is now.

Still wondering what to do with this one, thanks for the input.

Faustmouse · May 21, 2015

Toffer90 said:
Perhaps we should, in C2C, let smuggler shanty and assassins den be unlocked by the banditry civic as well; it would go well with this modmod and generally makes sense.
Perhaps someone with more experience with building requirement in XML, than me, should do this though.

Tech tags to use would be these:

Code:

			<PrereqOrCivics>
				<PrereqCivic>
					<CivicOption>CIVIC_LANDFILLS</CivicOption>
					<bPrereqCivic>1</bPrereqCivic>
				</PrereqCivic>
				<PrereqCivic>
					<CivicOption>CIVIC_IMPORT_TRASH</CivicOption>
					<bPrereqCivic>1</bPrereqCivic>
				</PrereqCivic>
				<PrereqCivic>
					<CivicOption>CIVIC_ENERGY_TRASH</CivicOption>
					<bPrereqCivic>1</bPrereqCivic>
				</PrereqCivic>
			</PrereqOrCivics>

They belong in the BuildingInfo XML file. I don't know the names for banditry, but you are most likely more familiar with civics than me

It should show you the general structure.

JosEPh_II · May 21, 2015

Question: are you testing/building this with REV On? If so have you tested/built with REV Off?

JosEPh

Toffer90 · May 21, 2015

JosEPh_II said:
Question: are you testing/building this with REV On? If so have you tested/built with REV Off?

JosEPh

Tested only with rev on.

But I don't see how that would influence anything... except perhaps AI's choice to build a city or not. They might be reluctant if national stability is low.

Edit: Could also affect what civics the AI wants to use.

Toffer90 · May 22, 2015

Balancing and tweaks all around the place.

Biggest change in subsistence:

v0.5.2

Toffer90 · May 22, 2015

Requires civic "Divine Cult"
High priest, 2 :strength:

, 1

, national unit (1 allowed), high cost: 1600 :hammers:

-ish.
Can purge non-state religions.

Tempting to use in battles due to:

Unit healing capability
Some field commander promotion that improve other units combat capability
50% attack modifier (not defense)
High chance to capture (50%? I want to reduce capture chances from early civics).
15% pursuit chance; 5% withdrawal chance, start withdrawal at 50% health or less.
2 First strike chances

Other stats:

Taunt: 15% chance to be targeted first in stack.
+10 disease (Bad habit of sacrificing people at the most unhygienic places. ^^)
-5 crime (A respected but to be honest mostly feared individual)

This would go well with some of the changes I plan for, especially for divine cult.
I can make the model if needed.

Rwn · May 22, 2015

Toffer90 said:
Requires civic "Divine Cult"
High priest, 2, 1, national unit (1 allowed), high cost: 1600-ish.
Can purge non-state religions.

Tempting to use in battles due to:
→Unit healing capability
→Some field commander promotion that improve other units combat capability
→50% attack modifier (not defense)
→High chance to capture (50%? I want to reduce capture chances from early civics).
→15% pursuit chance; 5% withdrawal chance, start withdrawal at 50% health or less.
→2 First strike chances

Other stats:
→Taunt: 15% chance to be targeted first in stack.
→+10 disease (Bad habit of sacrificing people at the most unhygienic places. ^^)
→ -5 crime (A respected but to be honest mostly feared individual)

My thoughts:

2 First strikes seems odds (it's not a ranged or particularly fast unit, is it?), but I like the high chance of capture!

1600 :hammers:

sounds very high (though maybe we don't play at the same speed... in Snails it's more than many wonders); I guess it should probably be around as much as a hero available early Ancient.

I'm not fond of the +10 disease, it would be a strong turn-off (especially early in the game where disease management isn't easy, unless you've made some tweaks in that area) and not every religion involves sacrificing - in most religions I'd even say that the vicinity of priests was probably cleaner than many places

. If you want to add a penalty, maybe go with a :gold:

extra cost instead. OTOH it could slightly improve education on the tile it is on.

Toffer90 · May 22, 2015

Rwn said:
My thoughts:

2 First strikes seems odds (it's not a ranged or particularly fast unit, is it?), but I like the high chance of capture!

He's a sneaky bastard and his appearance makes his opponent reluctant to engage in battle.

Rwn said:
1600 sounds very high (though maybe we don't play at the same speed... in Snails it's more than many wonders); I guess it should probably be around as much as a hero available early Ancient.

Ah didn't consider game speeds; I should have written same cost as "Nature Shrine"-ish (druid temple) wich is among the most expensive buildings in prehistoric, along with stick combat, and town hall.

Rwn said:
I'm not fond of the +10 disease, it would be a strong turn-off (especially early in the game where disease management isn't easy, unless you've made some tweaks in that area) and not every religion involves sacrificing - in most religions I'd even say that the vicinity of priests was probably cleaner than many places . If you want to add a penalty, maybe go with a extra cost instead. OTOH it could slightly improve education on the tile it is on.

Didn't really think long on downsides, just thought there should be some, and extra cost might be the way to go (although boring).
Disease is easy to handle through healers; crime is not as there is no units that can combat it before masonry (excluding the tribal guardian). I often let disease run rampant in some cities to combat un-education through overpopulation in the early game.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 22, 2015

Toffer90 said:
Requires civic "Divine Cult"
High priest, 2, 1, national unit (1 allowed), high cost: 1600-ish.
Can purge non-state religions.

Don't we already have the Inquisitor that does this?

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