Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
hmm... I don't think that would be all that hard actually. I'll have to give it some consideration.
Subdued Animals in C2C discussions
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
- Start date
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
@DH,
How hard is it to give Back to Subdued animals their original strength. This 0 str for SA'a is Bad! Especially if you are not using the Teleport Option. A single wild Animal should Not take out whole groups of SAs just because the tracker/hunter eventually wears down for being attacked and is trying to get his Herds back to safety. If the Hunter unit and his SAs are healing and they have kept their base value minus damage, are slowly regaining their health then there would not be this whole mess of losing everything cause the SA can't defend themselves. Especially true for the Predator SAs. Damn silly that a kookabura can wipe out a group of 6+ SAs. All because the Hunter was so badly damaged from the constant attacks from higher str WAs that a str 1 bird can wipe out everything!
Sure wish it was back to what it was before a this 0 str change. It's basically the same old complaint that a Pidgeon or duck can kill your chaser/tracker/hunter/master hunter argument.
I suppose I can start using the Teleport Option, but that, imho, takes away from the early game.
JosEPh
How hard is it to give Back to Subdued animals their original strength. This 0 str for SA'a is Bad! Especially if you are not using the Teleport Option. A single wild Animal should Not take out whole groups of SAs just because the tracker/hunter eventually wears down for being attacked and is trying to get his Herds back to safety. If the Hunter unit and his SAs are healing and they have kept their base value minus damage, are slowly regaining their health then there would not be this whole mess of losing everything cause the SA can't defend themselves. Especially true for the Predator SAs. Damn silly that a kookabura can wipe out a group of 6+ SAs. All because the Hunter was so badly damaged from the constant attacks from higher str WAs that a str 1 bird can wipe out everything!
Sure wish it was back to what it was before a this 0 str change. It's basically the same old complaint that a Pidgeon or duck can kill your chaser/tracker/hunter/master hunter argument.
I suppose I can start using the Teleport Option, but that, imho, takes away from the early game.
JosEPh
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
As far as I can see the only current problem is that AI stacks with SAs in them are waiting for the SAs to heal, contrary to what TB says. This could be fixed if the subdue animal mechanism did not set the health of the SAs to 25% health. Unfortunately once the mechanism went into the dll I lost all control over this.
Personally I like the fact that you can loose the whole unprotected stack. It means you need to support your hunters and can't explore too far from your home lands. I usually send them out on parallel paths into new territory so that they are close enough to support each other and have one behind the front lines ready to take all the units from the advance ones back home. Once I did have a huge stack SAs with three trackers at less that 25% health (one was at 5%) struggling back home while I tried to get another there for support.
edit Putting combat back onto each subdued unit would just involve copying the combat stuff from the wild unit. It would probably be better to give them all the same combat stats as it would be their human escort doing the fighting not the SA.
Personally I like the fact that you can loose the whole unprotected stack. It means you need to support your hunters and can't explore too far from your home lands. I usually send them out on parallel paths into new territory so that they are close enough to support each other and have one behind the front lines ready to take all the units from the advance ones back home. Once I did have a huge stack SAs with three trackers at less that 25% health (one was at 5%) struggling back home while I tried to get another there for support.
But only after it has been worn down. I have lost hunters and stacks but usually they get a mob attacking them - 5 to 10 animals at a time. So yes the pigeon does kill him but only after he was attacked by the tiger, lion and elephant first.
edit Putting combat back onto each subdued unit would just involve copying the combat stuff from the wild unit. It would probably be better to give them all the same combat stats as it would be their human escort doing the fighting not the SA.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I'm neutral on the issue. However:
OK, I had theoretically thought that 0 strs would never see reason to heal. I recall once seeing where the 25% health was set - shouldn't be hard to remove. If you're adding str back to the unit though, do you still want it removed?
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
If you could change it to a global variable in the XML it would be better and allow some flexibility. ANIMAL_HEALTH_PERCENT_AFTER_SUBDUE might be a good name with 100 meaning no damage and 25 meaning only have 25% of health afterwards.
I would prefer not to have combat strength on the subdued animals because it makes them closer to what I wanted in the first place.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
You got it brother!
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I'm just telling you that is not as good as what it was.
And the loss of being able to Butcher in the field is a loss as well.
It's your puppy so I guess I have to live with it. But don't be surprised when others start complaining too. Just sayin'.
JosEPh
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I have to agree that removing butchering is a mistake. imo
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
It was a cheat. How can a cub give you more yield than the bear you killed to get it?
If you have no use for the subdued animal kill it! You already got the yield from the main animal you killed to get the subdued version.
If you have no use for the subdued animal kill it! You already got the yield from the main animal you killed to get the subdued version.
I agree with the removal of "butcher in the field", as it was the go to option if it was a hassle to bring the animal home. I think it should be possible to butcher SA when they're inside a city as the cub has probably grown all up by the time it's in a city. I also think SA should have a small amount of strength unless we can limit the numbers lost when someone attacks a stack of them.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I have been considering a "sell" option which is about "special" features of the unit. Eg if you bring back a SA feathered bird and you have a feather worker in the city then what you brought back could have been a bunch of feathers instead and so you could sell it to the feather worker for
or 
. That way you don't decide what it is you brought back until you use it - weird huh
.You can't give a bit of strength to a unit. The minimum is 1. As soon as the combat str is not 0 I would have to bring back
TB was suggesting that a new tag be added to units indicating how many they can kill/capture. Non barbarians capture the unit(s) and this used to be the case in C2C but now they destroy them, not sure why. They do that to workers also. It used to be the case that they may disband them but you had the chance to capture them back before that happened. Now you don't have that chance
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I forgot you always give the food and production either way. I don't mind then. This is a good idea though.I have been considering a "sell" option which is about "special" features of the unit. Eg if you bring back a SA feathered bird and you have a feather worker in the city then what you brought back could have been a bunch of feathers instead and so you could sell it to the feather worker for
Yeah, just not an overnight project is all.
They've always done that for workers since vanilla. I saw the code where they select to do this once. Always have thought that was silly, but more now due to the improved ability to get captives back home. I believe it has something to do with how they treat 0 str units... something to keep them from being burdened to bring them home.Non barbarians capture the unit(s) and this used to be the case in C2C but now they destroy them, not sure why. They do that to workers also. It used to be the case that they may disband them but you had the chance to capture them back before that happened. Now you don't have that chance
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
ANIMAL_DAMAGE_PERCENT_AFTER_SUBDUE has been added to globals and should interact in the desired manner. However, it's damage, not health so 75 = 75% damage. (Will be in GlobalDefines.xml)
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
What is the purpose of putting a "worker" with the subdued animals? Is it just a "tell"?
I think i like the "sell" because i live in an area, here hunting for "pelts" is a huge business and i mean huge . . i even have relatives that sell deer hides, and one that traps muskrats, he does over 1000 a year . .
I think i like the "sell" because i live in an area, here hunting for "pelts" is a huge business and i mean huge . . i even have relatives that sell deer hides, and one that traps muskrats, he does over 1000 a year . .
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Yes it is a "tell". It makes it obvious it is not the animal. Unfortunately it gets confused with the worker units. I may replace the worker with the man from the settler unit instead.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
I wonder if Sparth could make a new unit that looks like a trapper like Davey Crockett, but of course without the rifle, and just a knife or something??
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
It is supposed to be more of a porter ie someone who carries for the hunter
umm, maybe a pack mule/horse, maybe not, maybe still Sparth/someone else, can think of something better,??
Sparth
C2C Team Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2013
- Messages
- 2,314
There is such model in units.fpk
ART_DEF_UNIT_GREAT_HUNTER
path to NIF: art/units/trapper/expert_trapper.nif
KFM: art/units/trapper/expert_trapper.kfm
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
The hunter art is not suitable as it be confusing if escorting a dog as it looks like a hunter then.
I have tried it with the male settler, it looks better and will change it to that when I next update the SVN.
I have tried it with the male settler, it looks better and will change it to that when I next update the SVN.
