Slaves, Hostages and Prisoners of War

Since this is now in game.

Note there is still a problem with the population not increasing when you join a Captive- Civilian to a city.

Here, I found these two posts way back in the Civics Thread :
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11003337&postcount=309
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11003627&postcount=312
How would you guys feel about this as a Civic Category? Is it necessary? Is it not needed? If we can get the code in for them, I'd like

I'm currently working on a POW trade agreement for Advanced Diplomacy. It is a little different because it is just an attitutude changing agreement.

-In Total War you can capture spies, interrogate, and exchange them.

stolenrays said:

I'm currently working on a POW trade agreement for Advanced Diplomacy. It is a little different because it is just an attitutude changing agreement.

-In Total War you can capture spies, interrogate, and exchange them.

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Any ETA on that? It sounds like a good thing to add given taht DH has finally got around to making this system, but this cycle ends on March 15th or so, so time is limited to a certain degree.

stolenrays said:

I'm currently working on a POW trade agreement for Advanced Diplomacy. It is a little different because it is just an attitutude changing agreement.

-In Total War you can capture spies, interrogate, and exchange them.

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I have been trying to figure out how you know where a unit comes from so that you can trade them back.

I also want to have some principles/treaties that your nation signs up to which affects what happens with the captives. For Example

I was actually thinking about releasing AD v2.3 today or tomorrow. It has a non-aggression pact as well. It won't have the POW Exchange yet. If you check out the thread, I can't get the treat to only trigger if you have a declared war memory for each other.

-I like the idea of exchanging prisoners as well. Haven't really looked into the Total War DLL, but it is a feature of it.

-Is Sack City now functional in C2C, or is it from my collaborated modcomp?

stolenrays said:

I was actually thinking about releasing AD v2.3 today or tomorrow. It has a non-aggression pact as well. It won't have the POW Exchange yet. If you check out the thread, I can't get the treat to only trigger if you have a declared war memory for each other.

-I like the idea of exchanging prisoners as well. Haven't really looked into the Total War DLL, but it is a feature of it.

-Is Sack City now functional in C2C, or is it from my collaborated modcomp?

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We have not merged "Sack City", if you choose to the "Burn Baby, Burn" option when you capture a city some of its population become captives, I will be adding refugees and such in such a case, with the idea that if you choose BBB too often then the next city you come to may have most of its population running away before you get there.

@Dancing I think you should lower the chance of military captive. I've played like 400 turns in prehistoric and i've probably got about 15-20 of these guys easy, possibly more. In my game they give like 72 hammers I think it is (marathon) which is pretty much a free building of your choice, u'd be an idiot to use them on an improvement and upgrading them into a unit costs money and they start with no xp - so the choice is obvious imo. I think reduce how often they proc by like 35% or thereabouts, maybe even 50% -or- maybe nerf how many hammers they supply for building construction. Do they scale to gamespeed? I think they should coz if its 72 hammers on epic this is stronger than 72 hammers on snail.

I have been thinking that with the slavery cvic going so will the buildings, so I could redo them. Idea, your nation chooses to run with Slavery as a valid world view. Then you build the building "Slavery Tradition" with a Civilian - Captive this gives you a slight increase in the chance of catching more slaves and gives a boost in all cities (via a free building "Slave Tradition") to sacrifice (production ad culture) and selling missions of the units. It also allows you to build the "Slave Market" which doubles your return from selling.

"Slave Tradition" and "Slave Market" can then be used to increase etc. in similar ways as the civic does now to keep balance.

The only way to get rid of the tradition is by a great person destroying the building. Or maybe a Lawyer.

Sgtslick said:

@Dancing I think you should lower the chance of military captive. I've played like 400 turns in prehistoric and i've probably got about 15-20 of these guys easy, possibly more. In my game they give like 72 hammers I think it is (marathon) which is pretty much a free building of your choice, u'd be an idiot to use them on an improvement and upgrading them into a unit costs money and they start with no xp - so the choice is obvious imo. I think reduce how often they proc by like 35% or thereabouts, maybe even 50% -or- maybe nerf how many hammers they supply for building construction. Do they scale to gamespeed? I think they should coz if its 72 hammers on epic this is stronger than 72 hammers on snail.

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They do scale by game speed, it is 225 on snail. The original design was for them to be able to build almost any building, so that value is just the same as for the slaves they replaced. The cost of upgrade is way too much but as far as I can see that happened when ls did his thing and has the same reason as why gatherers cost so much to upgrade to workers.

I am lucky to get one per combat with a stack of defenders. The chance of successful capture does depend on your, and your enemies civics. the chance of getting a captive - Civilian is too high at the moment 100% for a pop one city and 66% per pop when you raise a city.

If others agree with you I will drop the success rate, since we (you and I) are having opposite results at the moment.

I have been thinking that with the slavery cvic going so will the buildings, so I could redo them. Idea, your nation chooses to run with Slavery as a valid world view. Then you build the building "Slavery Tradition" with a Civilian - Captive this gives you a slight increase in the chance of catching more slaves and gives a boost in all cities (via a free building "Slave Tradition") to sacrifice (production ad culture) and selling missions of the units. It also allows you to build the "Slave Market" which doubles your return from selling.

"Slave Tradition" and "Slave Market" can then be used to increase etc. in similar ways as the civic does now to keep balance.

The only way to get rid of the tradition is by a great person destroying the building. Or maybe a Lawyer.

Click to expand...

Love it!

I am lucky to get one per combat with a stack of defenders. The chance of successful capture does depend on your, and your enemies civics. the chance of getting a captive - Civilian is too high at the moment 100% for a pop one city and 66% per pop when you raise a city.

If others agree with you I will drop the success rate, since we (you and I) are having opposite results at the moment.

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One thing I'd wanted to do from playtyping's inspiration was to make a Trait tag that influences the chance of capture - and perhaps that could be a unit/promotion ability as well. How could we correctly interface a method that adapts the base chance by a % modifier here?

Thunderbrd said:

One thing I'd wanted to do from playtyping's inspiration was to make a Trait tag that influences the chance of capture - and perhaps that could be a unit/promotion ability as well. How could we correctly interface a method that adapts the base chance by a % modifier here?

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As far as I can see in Python, I can check if a unit has a promotion but can't see what that promotion does. Which mans that any changes made to a promotion affecting capture would have to be coded into the python also or you would need to make a method exposed to python that gave the chance adjustment and do it in the dll. I can't see a way of getting at traits at all but I only did a quick check on that one.

Maybe neanderthals shouldn't give u a military captive - not for realism sake but just coz you get too many.

@Dancing Hoskuld

This can you make captives be butchered like animals to represent Cannibalism?

Hydromancerx said:

@Dancing Hoskuld

This can you make captives be butchered like animals to represent Cannibalism?

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If a player does this they should probably receive an otherwise unbuildable building (or something) that gives them a negative reaction from others who have not done so. It would probably also add some along with it's from eating the unit. The building could be removed by a Great Doctor.

MagnusIlluminus said:

If a player does this they should probably receive an otherwise unbuildable building (or something) that gives them a negative reaction from others who have not done so. It would probably also add some along with it's from eating the unit. The building could be removed by a Great Doctor.

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Or disease property instead of

I am not sure why the improvement text is not showing up at the moment. It is there.

Sgtslick said:

Maybe neanderthals shouldn't give u a military captive - not for realism sake but just coz you get too many.

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Ah ha, I never play with Neanderthals on so that is why I am not getting so many captives. Or maybe have them as a special captive type (Captive - Neanderthals) which can do a lot less?

Hydromancerx said:

@Dancing Hoskuld

This can you make captives be butchered like animals to represent Cannibalism?

Click to expand...

MagnusIlluminus said:

If a player does this they should probably receive an otherwise unbuildable building (or something) that gives them a negative reaction from others who have not done so. It would probably also add some along with it's from eating the unit. The building could be removed by a Great Doctor.

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Another world view building "WV - Cannibalism" doable. You would only be able to butcher in a city. Gives a free "Cannibalism" building in all cities. Removable by Great Doctor or Geat Prophet.

"Cannibalism" building allows butchering of Captive - Neanderthals, - Military and - Civilian. Gives small unhealthiness may lad to Disease - Kuru.

Kuru is the cannibalism disease. Hydro would be best placed to implement the disease.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

As far as I can see in Python, I can check if a unit has a promotion but can't see what that promotion does. Which mans that any changes made to a promotion affecting capture would have to be coded into the python also or you would need to make a method exposed to python that gave the chance adjustment and do it in the dll. I can't see a way of getting at traits at all but I only did a quick check on that one.

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I could give you a CyUnit tag to draw on that would take all the various sources and give you the combined modifier. Would that work for you?

Another world view building "WV - Cannibalism" doable. You would only be able to butcher in a city. Gives a free "Cannibalism" building in all cities. Removable by Great Doctor or Geat Prophet.

"Cannibalism" building allows butchering of Captive - Neanderthals, - Military and - Civilian. Gives small unhealthiness may lad to Disease - Kuru.

Kuru is the cannibalism disease. Hydro would be best placed to implement the disease.

Click to expand...

Wicked LOVE it! I could work that into the advanced disease mechanism too when that gets completed. No reason not to devel it out under the current methodology though (particularly since its the basis for the more advanced system anyhow...)

Thunderbrd said:

I could give you a CyUnit tag to draw on that would take all the various sources and give you the combined modifier. Would that work for you?

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Sounds good. We will probably want most of this to move into the dll when it settles down like AIAndy did with the subdue animals.

Thunderbrd said:

Wicked LOVE it! I could work that into the advanced disease mechanism too when that gets completed. No reason not to devel it out under the current methodology though (particularly since its the basis for the more advanced system anyhow...)

Click to expand...

I was thinking that the Disease - Kuru would be something you had the chance of catching when you eat humans rather than based on the disease threshold.

Now all I need is an icon for the "Worldview" buildings

I was thinking that the Disease - Kuru would be something you had the chance of catching when you eat humans rather than based on the disease threshold.

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We could make it based on both to an extent. Not only would having the use of Canibalism increase the disease property growth rate but it would also be a prerequisite for the Kuru disease to emerge at a particular disease property threshold (or in the advanced structure each use could ALSO increase the chance of an 'outbreak'.)

Sounds good. We will probably want most of this to move into the dll when it settles down like AIAndy did with the subdue animals.

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OK. I'll include this tag work in my current project then. Should be available after my next update.

@Dancing Hoskuld

Could you have something where you could get money from them by ransoming them back to their homeland. Or at least pretend to random them off? Meaning you get gold but the nation they are from do not get their unit back.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

Ah ha, I never play with Neanderthals on so that is why I am not getting so many captives. Or maybe have them as a special captive type (Captive - Neanderthals) which can do a lot less?

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Nice idea.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

Kuru is the cannibalism disease. Hydro would be best placed to implement the disease.

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Sure just let me know the stats and requirements and I could add it to my other diseases if you want.