Crime and Disease?

Moved more Individual Crimes to different eras. 19 Crimes have had PrereqTech changes.
Crimes per Era:
Prehistoric 7 Crimes
Ancient 7 Crimes
Classical 8 Crimes
Medieval 8 Crimes
Ren 10 Crimes
Industrial 13 Crimes
Modern 18 Crimes
TH 3 Crimes
Galactic 1 Crime

Not all Individual Crimes have been re-ordered. Further Changes may occur in Ind, Modern, TH, and Galactic. Once placement is finished then Stage 3: Malus and Bonus Checks.

JosEPh
 
JosEPh_II said:
Moved more Individual Crimes to different eras. 19 Crimes have had PrereqTech changes.
Crimes per Era:

Classical 8 Crimes
Medieval 8 Crimes
Ren 10 Crimes
Industrial 13 Crimes
JosEPh
Click to expand...

Not yet checked your latest changes. But I would suggest Medieval should get a few more crimes, not a nice time to be living in. Maybe 2 or 3 more.

Just a thought.
 
The Middle Ages were a nasty time to live because of everything else that was going on, not just because of an arbitrary number of crimes in the mod. :p
 
Harrier said:
Not yet checked your latest changes. But I would suggest Medieval should get a few more crimes, not a nice time to be living in. Maybe 2 or 3 more.

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Med Era only have 5 originally. And trying to make Individual Crimes fit there from the base of 76 "Crimes" created some dilemmas. Plus what you have available to counter crime plays in as well.

Right now I wanted to transition from a front-loaded Crime "load" with small crime load in middle eras and heavy end load to a more even transition and build up. Example even though Insurance Tech is Class Era tech how much real Insurance Fraud was going on? I ended up putting it on Ren Era tech

Once you hit Ren Era the number of Crime fighting units and buildings outweighs what has come before and Crime is easily handled. That was in part what prompted me to Lower the MinCrime level on almost all Crimes, much to Pit's chagrin. And Ren Era only had 5 "Crimes" to start. That has been doubled now.

JosEPh
 
Good job Joe. I've been thinking we may need to look at eras and as they advance, perhaps make the crime/disease per pop go up at a very gradual rate based on tech achievements to further present a challenge because the effectiveness of buildings and units may increase as well. This might make it so that it becomes beneficial to extend the 'outer limits' of the crime level triggers as well as the game progresses. Just food for thought and something to consider as we watch how the properties work through advancing eras in playtesting. Just saying it's an option we have.
 
To counter part of the "about gradual increase per pop" I could go back to the original diffusion rate or split the difference from where it is now to what is was originally. And I will keep the idea in mind if I don't see the balance I'm looking for after Stage 3 Malus and Bonus check. And yes there are several crimes that actually give a Bonus. But there are also some that pack a Mean punch thru lose of Commerce, Production and of course :health: and :). If you let certain Crimes reach their activation minCrime level you can see as much as 30 :yuck: added in. And there is one Crime that activates 800 Crime/turn while another decreases crime by 20/turn.

After that is a thorough going thru the Buildings that give or remove crime.

This is why I said I couldn't put all the changes out at once. I just can't get enough Test data by myself to justify making Large changes. So I adopted the "Stage" method instead.

JosEPh
 
Sure. And I'm confident further adjustments will eventually be made later as well. I suppose I'm just looking at being able to make units and promos for them more powerful as time goes on may be best accounted for by being able to introduce some gradual adjustments to increase the rate of crime so that it continues to be a challenge to keep the crime levels down. Pop grows but the question is does it grow fast enough to match the improvements of the law enforcement units. This is something I'll want to look at and evaluate more fully after the new units go in. I suppose I'm mentioning it here to suggest that later on, as the game gets further into the eras we may want to enable crimes that take place at higher threshold triggers.

But again, this isn't something to really consider too much at the moment. This thought was brought up as you'd mentioned it's getting easier to manage crime during the renaissance era. I'm thinking that it's going to get easier and easier as eras progress displaying an imbalance from the strengthening capabilities of law enforcement efforts.
 
Would like some input from players that have now had a bit of time to use v36 and V36 SVN on how Crime is going in your games.

Has anyone got a game up to Med Era yet? And if so was Crime at any time a problem or too easy while getting there?

Have you found that Crime doesn't need constant attention now? Can you still "ignore it" ( I hope not)? Or do you need to adjust for it every 10-20 turns more or less?

Any feedback welcome, so don't be shy. :)

JosEPh
 
In my last two games (Noble,Snail,Huge) it is much worse than before. I have needed my second guard much earlier and needed 6 or 7 in my large cities by half way through Classical. This means I am dropping the games earlier since I can only handle so many units at a time.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
In my last two games (Noble,Snail,Huge) it is much worse than before. I have needed my second guard much earlier and needed 6 or 7 in my large cities by half way through Classical. This means I am dropping the games earlier since I can only handle so many units at a time.
Click to expand...

So you are using all available anti-Crime bldgs too? And at what levels is your Crime at in the cities? Below 0? 0-100? 100-300? Higher?

JosEPh
 
JosEPh_II said:
So you are using all available anti-Crime bldgs too? And at what levels is your Crime at in the cities? Below 0? 0-100? 100-300? Higher?

JosEPh
Click to expand...

All anti-crime buildings built. Crime is now below 0 but growing. I "panic" if it gets above +100 or grows at 20 plus.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
All anti-crime buildings built. Crime is now below 0 but growing. I "panic" if it gets above +100 or grows at 20 plus.
Click to expand...

If left unattended it can get very costly. But even on Snail it should be manageable. Eternity is a whole "nother can o' worms".

And if your game gets to the Med/Ren Eras there are a slew of anti-crime Bldgs that come into play.

I'm trying to get a new game up to Med Era asap on Epic level to get a better feel for the recent changes. And with that last crime commit the Diffusion rate was returned to original level. If it proves to be too much I'll half the % I used the 1st time when I lowered it before.

JosEPh
 
@DH: Do you play with slavery or avoid it? I usually go for it and soak up the crime with more units but then once a unit is put to build up I don't feel I have to manage it much.
 
Thunderbrd said:
@DH: Do you play with slavery or avoid it? I usually go for it and soak up the crime with more units but then once a unit is put to build up I don't feel I have to manage it much.
Click to expand...

Would you expound on this a bit as I don't use slavery? Perhaps Slavery needs an adjustment to be more sensitive to Crime? As impo Slavery has always been OP.

JosEPh
 
Given the amount of extra crime and disease you get with slavery, I feel it balances out. Moreso now with some recent adjustments from DH. But suffice it to say you will suffer from crime quite a bit if you aren't prepared to deal with those effects. Slavery varies a lot in its effectiveness depending on the supply of captives you can collect.
 
There was a shaman biuldiing in my last game which removes all :yuck: from biuldings. This is quite overpowered because not only did I not have to worry about unhealthyness at all, disease was actually a source of :health:.

With divine cult, I all I had to worry about was crime because of gold. At masonry, I grew my capital past 1,000,000(somewhere in the 40s of city size.). I dumped all the slaves in that city as well(Slavery is OP already.)
 
It does not remove :yuck: from population, specialists (eg slaves and settled slaves), etc.

Diseases are implemented as buildings which is a problem with diseases not with the Shaman and Druid cathedral level buildings which predate the disease stuff by many many versions of C2C. This could "easily" be fixed if the buildings gave a free specialist that only provided :yuck: for example.

This probably wont cause problems with the Education as it is not a generic free specialist but one like the Great Library gives, ie appears in the "settled specialist" area of the screen which is unaffected by Education (I think).

It will cause minor problems in the city screen with the "settled specialists" getting even longer.

edit - to do
  1. need an icon for this specialist - I recon a rat is appropriate

  2. create the specialist

  3. change the diseases to add these specilists

  4. change the property system to remove specialists when building goes (probably not needed as already done when the building goes)

  5. change city screen python for the specialist box. Next on my list of things to do as I have bumped it up above the modular religion stuff and all the animal stuff I am working on.
 
How do you grow a city to size 40 in Ancient Era at masonry? What gamespeed are you using and please post a screen shot.

JosEPh
 
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