Am I the only one who hates warfare in this game? I just go so frustrated I'm stepping away from Civ 5 for awhile. Why is it that my cannons can't hit anything that isn't directly in front of them? Where is the strategy if I can't protect my cannons with musketmen? ugh moving away from this game for a bit and plan on coming back for a culture game or something. Warfare is just too stagnant for me. How do you approach an opponents city?
Warfare
- Thread starter mike3640
- Start date
Elric445
Chieftain
Usually what I do to attack a city is send in the melee units to surround the city. Fortify those while you bring in ranged/siege units behind the melee. Shoot the city with them, then use a melee to capture it. Remember to use those units as meat shields 
I_qua_I
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2010
- Messages
- 562
So far, my only complaint about war is that I find unwalled cities a bit too difficult to take. Now that gold is more scarce and there are more build options and strategies competing for our interests in the early game, deciding on going to war early on is a much riskier decision and often puts you in debt if you want to build a nice-sized army. Upkeep costs can be brutal and it takes production to build those units. War also often requires considerable planning and timing whereas some of the other opening strategies don't.
In one of my recent games I was playing as Montezuma. I poured all my early turns into spamming jaguar warriors to take advantage of Honor's bonuses. Anyway, Ethiopia plopped a city down real close to my capital in the middle of jungle/forest. He had a warrior stationed in the city as well that he used to escort the settler with. I know I didn't have any archers but I figured the city had 8 health and I had 4 jaguar warriors. Needless to say I couldn't take the city. My whole game up to that point revolved around spamming military units and I cant take a lone, completely undeveloped, early-game city in the middle of the jungle with 4 units that are designed to fight in jungle??? I just quit and started another game.
I'd be more inclined to go to war in the future if it wasn't such an uphill battle compared to just building a granary and popping out some shrines or trade routes.
In one of my recent games I was playing as Montezuma. I poured all my early turns into spamming jaguar warriors to take advantage of Honor's bonuses. Anyway, Ethiopia plopped a city down real close to my capital in the middle of jungle/forest. He had a warrior stationed in the city as well that he used to escort the settler with. I know I didn't have any archers but I figured the city had 8 health and I had 4 jaguar warriors. Needless to say I couldn't take the city. My whole game up to that point revolved around spamming military units and I cant take a lone, completely undeveloped, early-game city in the middle of the jungle with 4 units that are designed to fight in jungle??? I just quit and started another game.
I'd be more inclined to go to war in the future if it wasn't such an uphill battle compared to just building a granary and popping out some shrines or trade routes.
Yzman
Deity
I'm sensing that you don't know about line of sight, which is surprising if you have played the game this long. You realize cannons can fire from 2 tiles away right? The issue is when something tall is in your way. A cannon can't shoot from a grass tile over mountains or hills or jungle or forest. It CAN if it is on a hill though. So always try to put them on hills.
Artillery don't have this problem because they have indirect fire as a promotion which allows them to shoot over stuff.
Yzman
Deity
Warriors aren't made to take cities, they are the weakest unit in the game. You need archers to soften it up at the bare minimum but I would recommend spearmen and archers for a first assault.
I am aware of line of sight. But 95% of the time you don't get open fields to fight in. Last map I played cannons we literally useless as the continents map I played on had so much adverse terrain warfare was ridiculous. I feel if I have a musketmen next to a zulu soldier and have a cannon right behind my musketmen then that should be fine. I'm using starcraft logic where units share sight.
Aristos
Lightseeker
Line of Sight != Line of Fire
in the case of Civ5 ranged combat.
in the case of Civ5 ranged combat.
jjkrause84
King
Very strange complaints about the warfare system thus far.....
That said, it is far from great. The scale of the map is too small (but we've always known this). You NEVER need more than 7 or 8 land units; an army of this size can conquer the world, no problem.
I don't see any 'new' issues with Civ 5 warfare...it is the same as ever, really.
That said, it is far from great. The scale of the map is too small (but we've always known this). You NEVER need more than 7 or 8 land units; an army of this size can conquer the world, no problem.
I don't see any 'new' issues with Civ 5 warfare...it is the same as ever, really.
Probably the most annoying thing in cIV warfare is that catapults & cannons have 2 range and thus can easily get slaughtered by a high strength city. Sometimes it is impossible to take down certain cities until you get 3 ranged artillery.
I think siege units should have 50 resistance against ranged attacks so they can at least fight against cities.
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I think siege units should have 50 resistance against ranged attacks so they can at least fight against cities.
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StrideColossus
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2010
- Messages
- 277
Combat and city-taking can be very painful in civ5 if you don't get things right, but shouldn't be a reason to rage-quit 
I'm no genius player but here's some of the 'rules' I always try to follow if I'm at war:
General:
- Terrain is critical in civ5 warfare, use it to your advantage: e.g. Use defensive bonuses wherever possible, use choke-points to bottle-up the enemy, let the AI embark units which are then easier to kill.
- Ideally ranged units should be on hills to maximise the number of target tiles (not an issue when you get to artillery).
- Melee defenders should be in front of ranged, preferably on rough terrain for defensive bonuses.
- Farm barbs in order to get key promotions on early units.
- Protect elite units, don't be afraid to lose weaker ones, it happens.
- Try to ensure every defender/attacker has a flanking bonus where possible.
If I'm going on the offensive:
- Try to have as many siege units as can fit around the target city (behind melee). If your money is tight make short term deals to buy more, you'll be getting some gold soon hopefully.
- Don't just charge in straight to the target city: try to draw out the enemy / let them come to you, and keep killing until they start thinning out, then move in.
- Use fast mobile (horse) units behind the lines to finish off damaged enemies.
- When you do decide to move in try and do it in one movement, i.e. position all units in the minimum number of turns (ideally one!) to reduce the the number of shots from the city and defenders.
- Attempt to have every attacker covered by a medic (if you have some) and great general(s).
- Don't pillage straight away, save it for healing damaged units.
- Have contingency plans to prevent your empire getting unhappy, even if this means tanking your economy for a bit. i.e. buying happiness buildings, having to make crap deals for luxuries, etc.
If I'm on the defensive:
- Organise units 'behind' cities to give your ranged defenders plenty of time to take down invaders as they slowly wade through your territory.
- Don't be too concerned about tiles being pillaged (unless it's a critical strategic resource!), they are quick to repair.
- Horse units are great for mopping up injured units.
- Bring in reinforcements from the rest of your empire, or at least 'shuttle' a few defenders closer to the action in case things go pear-shaped.
Just a few thoughts and largely aimed at early- to mid-game warfare. Hope this might help a bit.
EDIT: This is a good guide btw, might be worth searching for others.
- stride
I'm no genius player but here's some of the 'rules' I always try to follow if I'm at war:
General:
- Terrain is critical in civ5 warfare, use it to your advantage: e.g. Use defensive bonuses wherever possible, use choke-points to bottle-up the enemy, let the AI embark units which are then easier to kill.
- Ideally ranged units should be on hills to maximise the number of target tiles (not an issue when you get to artillery).
- Melee defenders should be in front of ranged, preferably on rough terrain for defensive bonuses.
- Farm barbs in order to get key promotions on early units.
- Protect elite units, don't be afraid to lose weaker ones, it happens.
- Try to ensure every defender/attacker has a flanking bonus where possible.
If I'm going on the offensive:
- Try to have as many siege units as can fit around the target city (behind melee). If your money is tight make short term deals to buy more, you'll be getting some gold soon hopefully.
- Don't just charge in straight to the target city: try to draw out the enemy / let them come to you, and keep killing until they start thinning out, then move in.
- Use fast mobile (horse) units behind the lines to finish off damaged enemies.
- When you do decide to move in try and do it in one movement, i.e. position all units in the minimum number of turns (ideally one!) to reduce the the number of shots from the city and defenders.
- Attempt to have every attacker covered by a medic (if you have some) and great general(s).
- Don't pillage straight away, save it for healing damaged units.
- Have contingency plans to prevent your empire getting unhappy, even if this means tanking your economy for a bit. i.e. buying happiness buildings, having to make crap deals for luxuries, etc.
If I'm on the defensive:
- Organise units 'behind' cities to give your ranged defenders plenty of time to take down invaders as they slowly wade through your territory.
- Don't be too concerned about tiles being pillaged (unless it's a critical strategic resource!), they are quick to repair.
- Horse units are great for mopping up injured units.
- Bring in reinforcements from the rest of your empire, or at least 'shuttle' a few defenders closer to the action in case things go pear-shaped.
Just a few thoughts and largely aimed at early- to mid-game warfare. Hope this might help a bit.
EDIT: This is a good guide btw, might be worth searching for others.
- stride
This is due to the lack of familiarity with the ZoC. If you really want to not be frustrated at the mechanics of warfare.
Set up a Quick - Duel map and just fight the AI 1v1 so you can experience it.
Make sure you press F10, it is really easy to see the terrain and how much movement points will be taken away.
Set up a Quick - Duel map and just fight the AI 1v1 so you can experience it.
Make sure you press F10, it is really easy to see the terrain and how much movement points will be taken away.
digrosz
Dirty Frank
You know you have to set up your cannons first, do you? 
I'm aware of the system mechanics. I played GnKs quite a bit. It's this last map i played that I realized how limited you are at times. I'm a fairly adept civ player at this point. I just think that siege weapons are so limited by the map terrain that last game I played was ridiculously not fun. I see no reason why my own unit should prevent my cannon from firing. 2 tiles away. This would be less of an issue if perfect world 3 and continents maps didn't put so much snaky terrain. At the end of the day this is more of whiny complaint at my dislike of civ 5 combat than a plea for assistance although stride provides nice fundamentals
Yes and no, a trebuchet for example would be perfectly capable of shooting above a forest but it cant even if you put a spotter.
That said to the OP: You can always wage wars of opportunity (ie cities easy to take) and then wait till artillery.
It seems like the thing that you are unhappy with is exactly what I enjoy about combat in this game. The strategy of positioning different kinds of units is one thing I enjoy greatly and makes the game fun for me.
One additional thought on pillaging, I often bring workers along on offensives to repair pillaged tiles so that my unit can re-pillage it. It can be a very powerful tool, especially since going Liberty and/or building The Pyramids can result in instant repair pillage which allows you to repair and pillage every turn for those heal points for your units.
One additional thought on pillaging, I often bring workers along on offensives to repair pillaged tiles so that my unit can re-pillage it. It can be a very powerful tool, especially since going Liberty and/or building The Pyramids can result in instant repair pillage which allows you to repair and pillage every turn for those heal points for your units.
The only thing i hate about warfare in this game is that AI is stupid,stupid,stupid,stupid.It just don't understand logic of the waging warfare in this game (so probably you found opponent that fits you),but for me its like trying to play chess with 8 year's old child. Btw why do you play strategy game that involves warfare if you are beyond helpless when it comes to it ?
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I would hazard a guess that nobody was born the likeness of Alexander, Rommel or Julius Caesar since day one
He needs some more experience tis all.
Ryoga
King
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2010
- Messages
- 993
I'm sure you already know that, but each "unit" is actually supposed to represent a whole division with thousand soldiers each.
StrideColossus post is an excellent guide line. I would also add this: Try your first war to be a war of attrition: In other words dont try to capture a city but destroy as much enemy units as possible. This is done until you spawn a great general. I have never engaged in a siege without one (well I did once or twice but the results weren't pretty)
Ryoga
King
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2010
- Messages
- 993
This is a good idea for another pretty good reason.
If you destroy almost every enemy unit and keep besieging the enemy city long enough they will soon offer one or more of their cities to make you sign a peace treaty.
You don't even need to conquer anything if you want, unless you really want their capital (they will never offer you that).
