The Ancient Mediterranean MOD
- Thread starter thamis
- Start date
I turned the tech research rate down to 150 and it's pretty close. I'll probably go with 125 when I dl the next version. When did you plan on adding some more ancient techs and all ancient eras? Unitl then you might concider adjusting the tech rates so we don't get to the industrial age quite so quickly, especially since there are no modern resources. Not meaning to complain, just a suggestion. I know this is still a work in progress.
Looks very interesting Thamis. I'll bookmark this page 
I'm currently making a Roman mod. It might make sense to collaborate on some of the Roman/Etrurian graphics, leaderheads, decals, units, etc. If you are interested?
A quick note on leaders:
Pontus/Bithynia had several famous (for wars against the Romans) kings called Mithridates. Perhaps a different king of Colchis would be better?
In terms of TAM, Julius ceasar is almost 'modern'. TAM was almost entirely Roman (except for Parthia) by the time of his ascendancy. Perhaps a more appropriate leader would be Caius Marius or Cnaeus Pompeius Magnus? As for the heroes: Marcus Claudius Marcellus - who has often been likened to a Roman Achilles, winning the spolia opima (killing an enemy king single handed in battle). Scipio Africanus was just an extraordinary general.
I'm currently making a Roman mod. It might make sense to collaborate on some of the Roman/Etrurian graphics, leaderheads, decals, units, etc. If you are interested?
A quick note on leaders:
Pontus/Bithynia had several famous (for wars against the Romans) kings called Mithridates. Perhaps a different king of Colchis would be better?
In terms of TAM, Julius ceasar is almost 'modern'. TAM was almost entirely Roman (except for Parthia) by the time of his ascendancy. Perhaps a more appropriate leader would be Caius Marius or Cnaeus Pompeius Magnus? As for the heroes: Marcus Claudius Marcellus - who has often been likened to a Roman Achilles, winning the spolia opima (killing an enemy king single handed in battle). Scipio Africanus was just an extraordinary general.
Sword Dancer
Chieftain
Even Gnaeus Pompeius (Magnus) was only a generation earlier than Gaius Julius Caesar (55-44 BCE). Lucius Cornelius Sulla bridged the time between Gaius Marius' generation and Gnaeus Pompeius', but all of these men were part of an evolutionary (revolutionary) process that saw the Roman armies reorganized from a volunteer force comprised of the nobility, to a standing army of professional soldiers from the head count (or unpropertied classes) who owed loyalty to their generals, who ensured that they got a share of campaign spoils.
All of these leaders are Late Republic in era, and Rome had expanded a great deal by the time these men had appeared on the scene. An earlier suggestion is Cincinnatus.
All of these leaders are Late Republic in era, and Rome had expanded a great deal by the time these men had appeared on the scene. An earlier suggestion is Cincinnatus.
thamis
King of Kish
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@davbenbak: It's a good idea to slow down the tech rate. Can you just send me the necessary XML files and I'll include it? It would be cool if you could slow it down so that we don't get into the industrial age in TAM for now. The new techs will be the next thing I'm going to work on.
@Fireb & SD:
Thanks for the suggestions regarding leaders. I'm going to stick to Mithradates, because he's just the most famous one. For the Romans I think your suggestions are good. I'll research a bit more into Republican Rome.
And yes, we should collaborate on graphics and so on. There won't be any new units until January (when the SDK comes out), only new skins. I'm going to make flag decals and promotion icons for now.
@Fireb & SD:
Thanks for the suggestions regarding leaders. I'm going to stick to Mithradates, because he's just the most famous one. For the Romans I think your suggestions are good. I'll research a bit more into Republican Rome.
And yes, we should collaborate on graphics and so on. There won't be any new units until January (when the SDK comes out), only new skins. I'm going to make flag decals and promotion icons for now.
thamis
King of Kish
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- Jan 21, 2002
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I haven't updated for a while. Just to let you know on the progress:
I'm very busy writing an essay on nuclear weapons strategy of the Eisenhower administration (a more interesting topic than one might think, which made me think that I should do a Cold War scenario...
), so that's my priority now.
BUT: I have been to the King's College Library today (great source for history stuff) and dug up some ancient atlas books from 1901 or so and got some more inspirations for civs and cities, which will flow into TAM one day or another. Also, I've been looking into potential flag decals and found some good stuff.
I'm very busy writing an essay on nuclear weapons strategy of the Eisenhower administration (a more interesting topic than one might think, which made me think that I should do a Cold War scenario...
), so that's my priority now.BUT: I have been to the King's College Library today (great source for history stuff) and dug up some ancient atlas books from 1901 or so and got some more inspirations for civs and cities, which will flow into TAM one day or another. Also, I've been looking into potential flag decals and found some good stuff.
onedreamer
Dragon
thamis said:
I fully agree with the germans
Do your heroes have to have gained their fame on the battlefield ? You could use Dido's husband, but he was "only" the richest guy in Phoenicia. There is also the god Malqart, who placed the famous columns of Gibraltar and is probably the origin of the legend of Herakles. But he's a God... or a demi-god.
Fireb said:
He wasn't "just" a general, he was also a skilled politician.
If Thamis wants to use early roman figures as leader, then why not Romulus ?
I don't really agree with the thought that J.Caesar came too late in terms of TAM, if we consider the original TAM for Civ3, he wasn't late at all. But I do agree with the choice of Marcellus as hero, very good pick IMO
Sword Dancer
Chieftain
Hopefully not Eminem!
Been playing quite a bit of this. I like it so far. Please forgive these comments if they have already been addressed in the 8 previous pages. I havent read through all of them.
1: Is the goal of this mod primarily historical, play balanced, or a mixture of both? Every game so far as the French/Gallic winning easily. They dont have anyone near them to slow them down. The germans have been taken over by them 4 out of 4 times. I think this is due to their lack of rare resources and too many forests stifling their city growth. The germans always have small towns vs the 11 and 12 size for France. On the other hand the Romans and the Eturians are so close together they bump heads quickly.
2: Is there a new map coming? I dont see enough room for the britons to play on. If so then disregard 3 and 4
3: No elephants? Carthage would need them.
4: Gold for Egypt. Not only realistic in how wealthy they were but I had a hard time playing them without any luxary items nearby.
1: Is the goal of this mod primarily historical, play balanced, or a mixture of both? Every game so far as the French/Gallic winning easily. They dont have anyone near them to slow them down. The germans have been taken over by them 4 out of 4 times. I think this is due to their lack of rare resources and too many forests stifling their city growth. The germans always have small towns vs the 11 and 12 size for France. On the other hand the Romans and the Eturians are so close together they bump heads quickly.
2: Is there a new map coming? I dont see enough room for the britons to play on. If so then disregard 3 and 4
3: No elephants? Carthage would need them.
4: Gold for Egypt. Not only realistic in how wealthy they were but I had a hard time playing them without any luxary items nearby.
Having both Etruscan and Roman civilizations seems strange. I don't know if this is possible, but how about making Rome a barbarian town that starts the game in play. Could it be scripted that if the Etruscan civilization conquers Rome and builds a Palace there to change their capital, the Etruscan civilization changes into the Roman civilization? There could be the message "After years of warfare and intrigue, Rome rebels against Etruria and turns the Etruscan city states against each other. Although the Etruscan legacy continues in the form of the Roman culture, Rome becomes the ascendant Latin nation.". This would give the player the Roman UUs, but wouldn't change the leader traits or anything.
thamis
King of Kish
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@Rhianni:
I agree on the Etruscans headbumping problem. I am still thinking on what to do about it. Also, I think Gaul will get more forests.
New map is coming by Kargath, there will be Britons, Persia, Media, and Nubia in there.
No Elephants? Gotta fix that. I can also put the gold for Egypt.
@Yestin:
Well the Romans defeated the Etruscans, not the other way around. Your idea is intriguing, still... I might remove the Etruscans.
I agree on the Etruscans headbumping problem. I am still thinking on what to do about it. Also, I think Gaul will get more forests.
New map is coming by Kargath, there will be Britons, Persia, Media, and Nubia in there.
No Elephants? Gotta fix that. I can also put the gold for Egypt.
@Yestin:
Well the Romans defeated the Etruscans, not the other way around. Your idea is intriguing, still... I might remove the Etruscans.
onedreamer
Dragon
actually romans and etruscans DID co-exist for a period of time (during the roman monarchy and a few years after).
Dido (the legend):
her original name is Elissa, or Elisha. She was daughter to Belo II (or Belus), also known as Muto, king of Phoenicia. When he died, Elissa and her brother Pygmalion II raised to the throne, but Pygmalion didn't like to share murdered her husband Sychaeus, the richest guy in Phoenicia and Priest of Malqart, and managed to keep his involvment secret. One night Sychaeus appears in a dream and tells everything to Elissa. I don't know well the rest of the story, but in short Elissa fears for her life too and runs away changing her name. She will then found Carthage.
Dido (the legend):
her original name is Elissa, or Elisha. She was daughter to Belo II (or Belus), also known as Muto, king of Phoenicia. When he died, Elissa and her brother Pygmalion II raised to the throne, but Pygmalion didn't like to share murdered her husband Sychaeus, the richest guy in Phoenicia and Priest of Malqart, and managed to keep his involvment secret. One night Sychaeus appears in a dream and tells everything to Elissa. I don't know well the rest of the story, but in short Elissa fears for her life too and runs away changing her name. She will then found Carthage.
Regarding Romans & Etruscans...
They (mostly) coexisted for a while, during the first 200 or so years of Roman history.
From about 616 to 509 BC Rome was subject to Etruria, and had Etruscan kings.
'Etruria' was not a single nation-state. It was more of a collaboration of associated tribes, with a common culture and language, against common enemies.
Rome often allied with some Etruscan tribes (Caere), even though it was hostile to most Etruscan tribes.
Etruria as an independent quasi-nation was pretty much destroyed when the Gauls (under Brennus) attacked in force from the north, and Rome attacked from the south.
Whether Etruria as a playable nation should be removed...should be a question of gameplay
And as to choosing Romulus as an early Roman leader: He was, after all, the son of Mars, and a God in his own right, which more or less disqualifies him.
Right now I'm looking into re-skinning early Roman hoplites, and various other italic units. I'll post here once I've got something worth showing
They (mostly) coexisted for a while, during the first 200 or so years of Roman history.
From about 616 to 509 BC Rome was subject to Etruria, and had Etruscan kings.
'Etruria' was not a single nation-state. It was more of a collaboration of associated tribes, with a common culture and language, against common enemies.
Rome often allied with some Etruscan tribes (Caere), even though it was hostile to most Etruscan tribes.
Etruria as an independent quasi-nation was pretty much destroyed when the Gauls (under Brennus) attacked in force from the north, and Rome attacked from the south.
Whether Etruria as a playable nation should be removed...should be a question of gameplay
And as to choosing Romulus as an early Roman leader: He was, after all, the son of Mars, and a God in his own right, which more or less disqualifies him.
Right now I'm looking into re-skinning early Roman hoplites, and various other italic units. I'll post here once I've got something worth showing
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Re: Sargon, there where three Mesopotamian personages of that name: Sargon of Akkad, famous as the founder of the world's first empire, an early Assyrian king of whom little is known beyond the name, and Sargon II, founder of Assyria's last and most famous dynasty, the "Sargonids", and king both of Assyria and Babylonia. None of them would make too much sense as a Babylonian hero, methinks.
A more worthy candidate might be Nabopolassar, the king who together with the Medes destroyed Assyria, and who founded the Neobabylonian empire.
A more worthy candidate might be Nabopolassar, the king who together with the Medes destroyed Assyria, and who founded the Neobabylonian empire.
thamis said:
Thamis,
Unfortunately, the answer iis 'it depends on whom you believe'.
In the Aeneid, the best known stroy now, her husband was Sychaeus. Dido is usually associated with Elissa (Greek sources) -- Justin calls her husband Sicharbus I think.
Timaeus (the 'offocial' historian who gives 814 BC as the founding date of Carthage) had her married to one of the founding kings, not sure his name, I think it was Zorus.
Her brother is usually King Pygmalian.
Best wishes,
Breunor
Fireb said:Regarding Romans & Etruscans...
They (mostly) coexisted for a while, during the first 200 or so years of Roman history.
From about 616 to 509 BC Rome was subject to Etruria, and had Etruscan kings.
'Etruria' was not a single nation-state. It was more of a collaboration of associated tribes, with a common culture and language, against common enemies.
Rome often allied with some Etruscan tribes (Caere), even though it was hostile to most Etruscan tribes.
Etruria as an independent quasi-nation was pretty much destroyed when the Gauls (under Brennus) attacked in force from the north, and Rome attacked from the south.
Whether Etruria as a playable nation should be removed...should be a question of gameplay
And as to choosing Romulus as an early Roman leader: He was, after all, the son of Mars, and a God in his own right, which more or less disqualifies him.
Right now I'm looking into re-skinning early Roman hoplites, and various other italic units. I'll post here once I've got something worth showing
Good work FireB!
Most historians view that Etruscan power was broken at a naval battle (usually called the Battle of Cumae) in 474 BC. 509 is absolutely correctly the 'official' date the Romans overthrew the Etruscans, although most modern historians think that Etruscan influence continued longer. Once they lost the battle to Cumae and Acragas, they no longer controlled the seas and they were no longer a world power.
Best wishes,
Breunor
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