Revolution: with BarbarianCiv, Rebellion, AIAutoPlay

jdog5000 said:
Good to know Firaxis is doing something about that ... for me, it's not much of an issue because my computer isn't fast enough to run a map where much more than 18 civs make sense, but computers keep getting better :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, even a huge map, to me, is too small to justify more than 18 civilizations at one time.

I actually prefer between 14-16 original civs on a map (large size map since huge slows my computer to a crawl) with potentially 2-4 additional late-comers.

I have to stress though that I heard from others here on the forums that Firaxis is fixing this in Warlords. I have not read anything specifically released by them saying they are.
 
jdog5000 said:
You're correct, the civ killing off code remains in the BarbarianCiv python code. However, it is not called unless the DoGameStartKill setting is enabled in Revolution.ini ... so, by default, the mod does exactly what you request: all civ spreading/spawning is done through the SDK.

The killing off on game start code was left in to make it easier for me to create a Python only version which will be easier for other modders to include in their mods.
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OK, I didn't look through the whole code. Now I understand.
 
Justinian519 said:
I am having trouble enabling the change players. How do you make this work?
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First, if you are running the game, save and exit.

Then, open the Revolution.ini file which should be in Mods\Revolution\. In that file, in the [ChangePlayer] section towards the bottom, set Enable = True.

Then start up the game and reload or whatever. At this point, two keyboard commands should work:
1) Ctrl-Shift-H : This opens a popup allowing you to switch which civ you control! This works very well.
2) Ctrl-Shift-P : This opens a popup allowing you to change properties of any civ in the game. Note: If you change the civ type of a player whose units you can see, the flags for those units will not update! This can lead to strange scenarios. However, leader changes work fully and do change the personality and traits of the player.

If, after following these steps, ChangePlayer is still not working, then the game cannot find your Revolution.ini file. The most likely culprit is the path for the mod, see the first post for instructions.
 
Finally! I have awaited a revolt-feature for Sid Meier’s Civilization ever since I played the second edition of the game. First of all I would like to thank all the people associated in this project and wish them the best of luck on finishing. I will do what I can to help see this project finished (you are very welcome to write a private message to me on this account) and thus I have – below – written how the feature could work.
I have always been intrigued by the works of The Arnold J. Toynbee and Oswald Spengler and based on some of their theories you could draw a rough which shows general tendencies of civilizations when they fall. The main factor here is a civilizations identity, which could be disrupted by disharmony [geographical, cultural, religious], financial depression and a negative self-image [poor culture, humiliation at war]. These things could be projected into Sid Meier’s Civilization’s paradigm/model/code:
The simplest way to logically illustrate a civilization splitting would be to have a value, which increases and decreases based on different factors. To make my concept more tangible I have not only stated the reasons of an increase or decrease of the value, but also how much. This could obviously be changed.

Origin of Rebel:
Causes:
Macro-Perspective:
Revolution:
If a civilization Changes Civic Options all cities will have their Rebel Value increased by 50 pr Civic Option changed.
Unhappiness:
If a civilization is unhappy all cities will have their rebel value increased by 3 each turn.
Cultural Decay:
If a civilization has a low cultural value all cities will have their Rebel Value increased by 8 each turn. [low cultured determined by having less than the average culture compared to all other known civilizations]
Loss Due To War:
If a civilization loses a city at war all cities will have their Rebel Value increased by 175.
Loss of Capitol:
If a civilization loses its capitol then all cities will have their Rebel Value increased by 500.
Financial Depression:
If a civilization earns less than a single gold per turn then all cities’ will have their Rebel Value increased by 125 each turn.
Micro-Perspective:
Geographical Difference:
If a city is not neighbor [road connected] to the capitol then the city’s Rebel Value will be increased by 5 each turn.
Unhappiness:
If a city is very unhappy then the city’s Rebel Value will be increased by 7 each turn.
Religious Difference:
If a city has a different religion than the civilization then the city’s Rebel value will be increased by 4 each turn.

Prevention:
Macro-perspective:
War:
If a civilization declares war - and is not already in war - all cities will have their Rebel Value decreased by 75. At war the Rebel value will be decreased by 9 in all the civilizations cities each turn – this lasts at most for 10 turns.
Spoils of War:
If a civilization conquers another city then all cities will have their Rebel Value decreased by 75.
Further Spoils of War:
If a civilization conquers another civilization then all the cities of the civilization will have their Rebel Value decreased by 500.
High culture:
If a civilization has a high culture all cities will have their Rebel Value decreased by 10 each turn.
Happiness:
If a civilization is happy all cities will have their Rebel Value decreased by 2 each turn.
Micro-perspective:
Geographical Homogeneity:
If a city is neighbor [road connected] to capitol then the city’s Rebel Value will be increased by 2 each turn.
Happiness:
If a city is happy then the city’s Rebel Value will be decreased by 4 each turn.
Religious Homogeneity:
If a city has the same religion as the civilization then the city’s Rebel Value will be decreased by 2 each turn.

Effects of Rebel:
Synergy Effect:
Once one city reaches 1000 in Rebel Value all other cities will have their Rebel Value Increased based on how many tiles they are distanced from the city that reached 1000. It could be calculated like this:
17500/([Distance in Tiles]* [Distance in Tiles]).
All cities that reach 1000 in Rebel Value will revolt to a new civilization. All other cities that do not will have their Rebel Value divided by 2. All cities of the new civilization will have their Rebel Value divided by 3. The Largest city of the new civilization becomes the capitol.
The New Civilization:
If new civilization’s capitol was happy prior to the Synergy Effect:
All civic options are either identical to the ones of the original civilization.
Civilization reputation and relation are identical to the original civilization. The new civilization is neutral towards the original civilization.
If new civilization’s capitol was unhappy prior to the Synergy Effect:
All civic options differ from the original civilization [randomized].
The civilization will be neutral towards all other civilizations except the original
Civilization, which it will be at war with.

Further Features/Attributes:
Warning:
If a city reaches 900 in Rebel Value then player will be informed with a popup.
AI:
If the computer has a 750 in Rebel Value in one of its cities it will:
If it has a strong military it will declare war on the civilization it dislikes the most.
If not:
Increase happiness.
Emphasize on cultural buildings..
If the computer reaches 900 and is not already in war it will declare war with the civilization it dislikes the most.
New cities:
Whenever a city is build it starts the total average Rebel Value of all the civilization’s cities.
The first civilization to discover nationalism gets the Rebel Value of all its cities reduced to 0 [this may not be very realistic, but I think it fits Sid Meier's Civilization universe well :) ].

Questions to my concept are very welcome.
 
Quijote said:
Finally! I have awaited a revolt-feature for Sid Meier’s Civilization ever since I played the second edition of the game. First of all I would like to thank all the people associated in this project and wish them the best of luck on finishing. I will do what I can to help see this project finished (you are very welcome to write a private message to me on this account) and thus I have – below – written how the feature could work.
Click to expand...
Glad you're as excited about the possibilities of this as I am! Right now, in terms of coding, the team is just me, but a lot of useful ideas and concepts have come from discussions in this thread and in other places. So your thoughts are definitely welcome!

I am particularly intrigued by your idea of having a "revolution index" for each city that goes up and down based on factors ... it's definitely a good idea, and solves a few of the issues I had been wondering how to resolve for the Revolution section of the mod.

Basically, the current Rebellion model, which I'm fairly happy with, has no memory. If a city is unhappy, then in combo with other factors, it has a probability of rebelling. For these smaller scale rebellions, I feel the probabilistic model is fairly sensible ... but it wasn't working very well in my head for larger revolutions. A revolution should be something that's a long time in the brewing, and based on more than just what the city feels at the moment.

I like a lot of your ideas, although I have some questions ...

Quijote said:
Unhappiness:
If a civilization is unhappy all cities will have their rebel value increased by 3 each turn.
Click to expand...
How do you measure the happiness of the civilization? On a city by city basis, this is straight forward, but for the whole civ, it's not as clear to me. Perhaps approval rating? Is that still in the game? It's never really something I look at ...

Quijote said:
Financial Depression:
If a civilization earns less than a single gold per turn then all cities’ will have their Rebel Value increased by 125 each turn.
Click to expand...
This is something I've been exploring, and I've come up with a slightly different model.

First would be a high taxes effect:
If the civ is at peace, running a gold percentage (ie 100 - sci - cult) > 50% is considered high taxes.
If the civ is at war, running gold percent > 60% would be considered high taxes.

Then, for financial trouble/depression:
If at peace, small treasury, negligible income (< 5 or so), and high taxes.
If at war, medium or smaller treasury (so that plundering doesn't keep you completely out of trouble), negligible income, and high taxes.

The problem with just doing income is that I at times will run a deficit to improve research speed if I have cash to burn. So it has to be more complicated than that. After a little bit of testing, AI civs will occasionally have very high taxes, but only rarely qualify for the serious financial problem clause. This is partly because the AI code has a gold percentage based notion of financial trouble, so when it gets to having high taxes it changes its behavior (razes captured cities, for example).

Quijote said:
Geographical Homogeneity:
If a city is neighbor [road connected] to capitol then the city’s Rebel Value will be increased by 2 each turn.
Click to expand...
I assume you mean decrease :) There's also a notion of the area a city is in ... basically, each continent or island is its own area, so I would add another similar factor for being in same area as capital or not.

Quijote said:
Happiness:
If a city is happy then the city’s Rebel Value will be decreased by 4 each turn.
Click to expand...
Perhaps some measure of the happiness of a city is needed ... cities with lots of extra happiness should be quite immune to revolutions.

I also like the way losses from war can be easily counted in this model ... I think some complication of what you propose is needed, a civ has to have held a city for say more than 10 turns to see any effect, and then the effect should also be smaller for cities that the civ doesn't have a majority culture in.

Great ideas all in all ... thanks for posting!
 
First, fun mod :)

Now, for your index discussion I would recommend a few variables per city:

fCurrentRebelIndex
This would be the current index as described above. I would use a float so that rather than having a value of 1-1000, for example, you could use 0-1.000 making it readily usable as a modifier without further calculations.

fPreviousRebelIndex
This could either be the previous turn's index or the average of the current index and the previous index. Calculate it at the end of the player's turn and it essentially becomes the average of the two previous turns. The point with this variable is to track a limited history so you could use the history as a modifier to increase/decrease the likelyhood of a rebellion without having to worry about sudden changes throwing things off. Or, better yet, use this value rather than the current value to make it more difficult to predict & control.

fRebelIndexChange
This would be the current change amount. Useful information for debugging and perhaps displayign a warning to the player or some other indication in the game.

bRebelIndexImproving
A simple boolean to indicate whether or not the situation in the city is improving. This would be tracked despite contradictory change values. For example a city may have recently become connected to the capital and the current state religion may be in the city now as well as reduced taxes and increased happiness. This could be considered improving even if the empire also lost a city or some other non-local event that would cause the rebel index to climb even though "life is good" in the particular city. You could then go the simple route and if this value is true don't allow a rebellion or you could use it to apply a limited effect such as allowing rebel units to spawn but not allowing a full scale rebellion. Essentially, this value could eliminate the need to track rebellion/revolt indecies seperately.

Now, for some pseudo-code...

First, a quick check to see if you should initiate a rebellion or revolt...

If (thiscity.fPreviousRebelIndex > 0.25)
... if (thiscity.bRebelIndexImproving) // Situation isn't too bad
...... chance = thiscity.fCurrentRebelIndex
... else // it's getting worse, make it more volatile
...... chance = thiscity.fCurrentRebelIndex * (1 + thiscity.fRebelIndexChange)

Then do your thing with the chance
if (chance > rnd)
... if (thiscity.bRebelIndexImproving)
...... do minor rebellion
... else
...... do major rebellion (or add code to check nearby cities and start a full revolt)

Anyway, just an idea on implimentation. As for the index, it would be nice to have some direct control over it too. For example spies that could increase the index in foreign cities and propaganda (perhaps a "buildable" process like wealth/research/culture or a special unit) to decrease it in your own.
 
Reply to jdog5000

I am really glad that you liked my concept, and I hope the parts of it that you liked will be of use to the Mod. As I said before I will do what I can to help.

How do you measure the happiness of the civilization? On a city by city basis, this is straight forward, but for the whole civ, it's not as clear to me. Perhaps approval rating? Is that still in the game? It's never really something I look at ...
I guess the easiest method would be to take the simplest approach and draw out an average:
[total happiness of city A (0-100) + total happiness of city B (0-100) (...) / [number of cities] = [average happiness]
If average happiness is below 20 then increase the rebel value by 7 each turn.
If average happiness is above 40 then decrease the rebel value by 2 each turn.
One could complicate this formula where population becomes a factor:
[total population] / [number of cities] = [average population]
[total happiness of city A (0-100)] * ([city A population]/[average population]) + [total happiness of city B (0-100)] * ([city B population]/[average population]) (...) / [number of cities] = [average happiness]

This is something I've been exploring, and I've come up with a slightly different model.
I like your model very much - and a civilization should be able to run an expansive economic system without causing instability to the degree of rebellion. The problem with Sid Meier's Civilization - from an economical perspective - is that it simplifies economics to a degree where there are no booms/busts or interdependence and thus no real economic crises or depressions. So if we use your model the effect should be lower than an increase of Rebel Value of 125 in all cities per turn - but your method is still the best one i see happening.

Perhaps some measure of the happiness of a city is needed ... cities with lots of extra happiness should be quite immune to revolutions.
Well colonial independence could happen without unhappiness. But I do agree that happiness should be able to decrease the risk of a revolution. I also think the happiness of the cities that rebel is very vital. As I said in my previous post I think the revolution should be divided into two where one is a friendly revolution and one is not [based on the happiness of the new capitol prior to the revolution].

I think some complication of what you propose is needed, a civ has to have held a city for say more than 10 turns to see any effect, and then the effect should also be smaller for cities that the civ doesn't have a majority culture in.
I agree, though I still believe losing any city to another civilization is national humiliation enough to cause instability and thus increasing the risk of revolution. Adding the city's culture as a factor is a very good idea.

What ideas did you have about when a civ acquires a city? It seems they shouldn't inherit all of the revolutionary spirit of the city, at least not in certain circumstances like a civ recapturing a city it has some culture in. Thoughts?
All captured cities - that has never been owned by the civilization that captures it - should have a high revolutionary value after being overtaken. I do not think it matters what the original value of the city was, since the citizens of the city is no longer associated with their former civilization. If the city has received a high Rebel Value due the fact that it is on another continent/island than the capitol, then this may not be relevant anymore. I would say that a city that has been overtaken should have approximately 675 rebel value at the beginning.

Additional Thoughts:

Military:
4 or more units in the city would/should decrease the rebel value by 5 in the city each turn.
Problems: I do think it would be hard to get the AI to understand this new stratetic element.

Cause of Real Financial Crises:
Revolutions/Unstability could be generated by a major boom followed by a burst. The key here is inflation, though while inflation in Sid Meier's Civilization IV - to me - does not really make sense it would be sensible to take a different approach. The way that this economic modeled could be simplified would be to record income and if the income suddenly rises for a number of turns it would cause a burst where it would fall. It could be calculated like this:
Boom Period: Normal Income
Boom Period lasts for 40-60 turns. After it is followed by a Burst Period.
[Current income] / [Average income during the last 40-60 turns] = [Burst Effect]
Burst Period: [Income] / [Burst Effect] = New Income
Burst Period lasts for 20-30 turns. After it is followed by a Boom Period.
If the economical model of the game is build like this, then an unstable influx of money will lead to an unstable civilization and thus increasing the risk of revolution.
Note: If the [Current income] is less than [Average income during the last 40-60 turns] there will be no Burst Period. It will just repeat the Boom Period.
Problems: Overly simplified model and everyone may not agree with this economical philosophy.

Civics:
Police State reduces the Rebel Value of all cities by 3 every turn.
AI: The AI will switch to police state - if possible - when one of their cities reach 800 in Rebel Value.
 
I played a few games with this mod and it is really fun. I was waiting for a revolution mod. The only problem that I have seen is that it is too easy to pay the revolution instigators to put down their arms. They only asked for meager sums like 200 gold. Everything else is very well done.
 
Drtad said:
I played a few games with this mod and it is really fun. I was waiting for a revolution mod. The only problem that I have seen is that it is too easy to pay the revolution instigators to put down their arms. They only asked for meager sums like 200 gold. Everything else is very well done.
Click to expand...
Thanks! The price of paying off the rebellion is definitely something I keep looking at, it's difficult to find a good point where the AI will have a chance to pay too. What era were you in? The costs do go up with era, but 200ish is pretty normal around the middle ages, early renaissance ...

How much gold do you guys usually have in the treasury?
 
I was in the early industrial era. And I had about 5000 in my treasury. I founded Christianity, so I got a lot of money from the shrine.
 
Seven05 said:
Now, for your index discussion I would recommend a few variables per city:
Click to expand...
Keeping track of multiple values certainly is a good idea, and allows for a lot more flexibility in determining whether or how strong of a revolution to launch. Excellent! I'm thinking current index, previous index, and then the sum of local effects this turn. The local effects would then be city's happiness, location, health, culture, garrison, etc, but not the national effect like finances or losses from war. The boolean you propose would then be the sign of this value.

I'm thinking one effect for these values would be, if situation is improving, the motherland maintains control of the city and the revolutionaries appear outside the city (like rebellions currently), it situation is not improving, the revolutionaries get control of the city.

What to with the motherland's garrison in the city in both of these situations is an open question ... options include, have (some or all) defect to new nation, injure them, move them from the city as if they were retreating. Ideas?

Seven05 said:
Anyway, just an idea on implimentation. As for the index, it would be nice to have some direct control over it too. For example spies that could increase the index in foreign cities and propaganda (perhaps a "buildable" process like wealth/research/culture or a special unit) to decrease it in your own.
Click to expand...
I'm definitely planning on having a spy effect of "incite revolution" or some such, it will cost you but you can try. Getting the AI to use it intelligently is what will keep this towards the bottom of the list for a while. Having something that you can build in the city is an interesting idea ... perhaps an effect could be added to say the courthouse? The AI would build these in distant cities anyway, and something could be added to have them build them in cities that were thinking of revolting. While we're on the subject, what other city buildings could have this effect? I was thinking having wonders might decrease the odds ... but after a little reflection, this could just be tied up in a culture effect.
 
jdog, help me get the citizens up and running and the solution practically writes itself! :D

No more monolithic group of people in your empire but different, rival groups who all want different things... and this will easily allow you to see who is going to be the trouble-makers based on your current policies.
 
Quijote said:
Well colonial independence could happen without unhappiness. But I do agree that happiness should be able to decrease the risk of a revolution. I also think the happiness of the cities that rebel is very vital. As I said in my previous post I think the revolution should be divided into two where one is a friendly revolution and one is not [based on the happiness of the new capitol prior to the revolution].
Click to expand...
Yeah, a violent and not revolution are certainly something I'm thinking about. My thoughts were, if the situation is not too bad (either is bad, but improving, or bad but city is still happy), that the city and whoever else wants to revolt with it would ask for partial independence (Vassal state when that becomes a possibility). If you let them go, they would become your Vassal state and you'd avoid war ... but maybe other colonies would be more likely to ask. If you don't, the cities would have a large boost to their revolution index and would probably be inclined to fight you in short order.

Quijote said:
All captured cities - that has never been owned by the civilization that captures it - should have a high revolutionary value after being overtaken. I do not think it matters what the original value of the city was, since the citizens of the city is no longer associated with their former civilization. If the city has received a high Rebel Value due the fact that it is on another continent/island than the capitol, then this may not be relevant anymore. I would say that a city that has been overtaken should have approximately 675 rebel value at the beginning.
Click to expand...
Hmmm ... I agree that cities never owned should get a pretty high revolution value, less for cities previously owned, and even less when the city has significant nationality from the conquerer. But I was thinking the city wouldn't immeadiately forget their previous woes, if you had suffered under the previous ruler, you wouldn't put up with as much from the new owner. It does make things more complicated though ... perhaps keeping 1/4 of the previous value, with a cap on the total possible revolution index of a captured city of say 750?

Quijote said:
4 or more units in the city would/should decrease the rebel value by 5 in the city each turn.
Problems: I do think it would be hard to get the AI to understand this new stratetic element.
Click to expand...
A significant garrison in the city should certainly reduce the chances of a revolution ... but I wonder whether that should be manifested in the index or in subsequent computation of odds? While tanks rolling by my window every day would keep me from taking up arms, it wouldn't make me happy to live there ... and it would be hard to get the AI to use this fact. But having too many modifiers on the odss of a revolution will make it intractable ...

Another angle, proposed elsewhere by Goobernatorial, was that the size of the garrison would effect who had control of the city after the revolution. A large garrison would be injured but maintain control, while a small garrison would be over run ...

Quijote said:
Police State reduces the Rebel Value of all cities by 3 every turn.
AI: The AI will switch to police state - if possible - when one of their cities reach 800 in Rebel Value.
Click to expand...
How to model the effects of police state is, I think, similar to the garrison effect ... it keeps revolutions down, but it won't necessarily keep people happy. Having it decrease the revolutionary value for the city (as a local effect I think) does acheive the end, but perhaps running a police state should make a resulting revolution more likely to be violent?
 
Dom Pedro II said:
jdog, help me get the citizens up and running and the solution practically writes itself! :D

No more monolithic group of people in your empire but different, rival groups who all want different things... and this will easily allow you to see who is going to be the trouble-makers based on your current policies.
Click to expand...
Very reminisent of Tropico :cool: That would be pretty sweet ... but a lot of work! Are you mainly in the planning stages with the citizen part, or is there code already? It's probably best to do that for the civ as a whole, I think city by city would be ridiculous (albeit useful) ... so I take it you'd have a citizen of one of these types for each population point for the empire?
 
jdog5000 said:
Very reminisent of Tropico :cool: That would be pretty sweet ... but a lot of work! Are you mainly in the planning stages with the citizen part, or is there code already? It's probably best to do that for the civ as a whole, I think city by city would be ridiculous (albeit useful) ... so I take it you'd have a citizen of one of these types for each population point for the empire?
Click to expand...

There is code in existence, yes... good code? Does it work? No. :lol: Right now, I'm trying to work on making my website all pretty with flash so that I can convince some poor programmer to get on board so I can focus on what I'm good at: graphics.

And yes, basically, what would happen is that you'd add up all the population points for the empire and then create the ratios of each based on certain criteria: technology, civics, buildings, military size, and bonuses available.

I've developed a spread sheet as well as an XML document that would basically just allow you to plug in the info... some boolean values, some +/- values of attitude towards the different civics and player actions. So if someone wanted to add a class or change all of them for a fantasy/sci-fi mod, it would be very easy to do so.

I also what race, religion, and nationality to be factors as well. Race would be like in Civ3 a generalized grouping of each civ into a category... for example, British, German, French would all be European, Japan, China, Korea would be Asian, etc. etc.

Because race has been very important. Let's face it... a European country is much more willing to be occupied and incorporated into a country ruled by white/Europeans than one ruled by Africans or Arabs.. and the opposite is also true. Nationality would be based on the particular civilization.

Up until now, I've had it so that each citizen has different attributes... so that you could have, for example, an Indian Laborer who practices Christianity and an Indian Laborer who practices Islam, etc. but I'm not sure about that anymore... It would probably be much less resource intensive on the computer to just have:

Nationality: 75% CivX, 20% CivY, 5% CivZ
Religion: 60% ReligionA, 30% ReligionB, 10% ReligionC
Race: 80% Race1, 20% Race2
Class: too many to list here...

And then your total popularity and the popularity of each civic would be calculated accordingly... Civics that are unpopular could eventually lead to a revolution that would change it to something more favorable.

However, you should be able to weight the influence any group will have depending on that civic. So basically the player can choose to side with the elites and impose civics that keep the masses down, or conversely, they could go with strength in numbers that gives the masses a great deal of power that will ensure his/her continued survival politically.

And for the AI, which path they will choose should be determined by leader traits.
 
jdog5000 said:
The local effects would then be city's happiness, location, health, culture, garrison, etc, but not the national effect like finances or losses from war. The boolean you propose would then be the sign of this value.

I'm thinking one effect for these values would be, if situation is improving, the motherland maintains control of the city and the revolutionaries appear outside the city (like rebellions currently), it situation is not improving, the revolutionaries get control of the city.
Click to expand...
That works too :)

In that case though, I would switch the boolean over to situation deteriorating or even something as simple as "revolt possible" based on the entire empire or the sum or average of the index at every city.

The nice thing about a simple boolean like this is that it allows you to break your own rules and let specifc events allow or prevent a full scale revolt regarless of the "real" situation. For example if another empire builds a specific wonder or has a score significantly higher than the current empire, etc.

jdog5000 said:
What to with the motherland's garrison in the city in both of these situations is an open question ... options include, have (some or all) defect to new nation, injure them, move them from the city as if they were retreating. Ideas?
Click to expand...
Well, I would do something simple to keep the game from getting overly complicated. So just kill them off if the rebels start in control of the city (perhaps in this case generate fewer rebel units) and leave them alone otherwise.

jdog5000 said:
I'm definitely planning on having a spy effect of "incite revolution" or some such, it will cost you but you can try. Getting the AI to use it intelligently is what will keep this towards the bottom of the list for a while. Having something that you can build in the city is an interesting idea ... perhaps an effect could be added to say the courthouse? The AI would build these in distant cities anyway, and something could be added to have them build them in cities that were thinking of revolting. While we're on the subject, what other city buildings could have this effect? I was thinking having wonders might decrease the odds ... but after a little reflection, this could just be tied up in a culture effect.
Click to expand...
I wonder if they would use it, I've seen the AI adapt suprisingly well to some of my wierd test projects so you may be suprised :)

I think you can do a mix of buildings, some that decrease the index and others that increase it. I guess it depends on how you want to look at rebellions. If, for one example, oppression is what you want to reflect as a cause than buildings like barracks & courthouses should increase the index and others like markets and factories could decrease the index. That would represent oppression as a cause and keeping the population gainfully employed and giving them places to spend their money as a loose representation of prosperity. It's really a matter of personal preference and everybody could come up with a good reason for or against just about any building in the game being used in either way.

Since you're effectively adding a new layer to the gameplay this is a good opportunity to balance things out in new and creative ways. If you think a particular building is too potent make it have a negative effect, if you find another to be unfairly penalized give it a positive effect. At the very least using this train of thought you can really put the squeeze on people who "play the system" rather than playing the game.

And, it is entirely possible to use buildings to modify the rate of change rather than the direction. So, instead of a courthouse representing a greater or lesser chance of rebellion it could simply stabalize things and reduce the rate of index change by 25%. Other buildings like banks could increase the rate of change making it possible for things to be very good when it's good or very bad when it's not. Combine that with a per city or per empire modifier for change rates and you could have things like anarchy doubling the index change so things could suddenly become very unstable when big changes take place in the civ as a whole.
 
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