Instant Leaders (and Buildlings and Units)

I have been working with TETurkhan's Test of Time scenario to get it ready to use for a class that I will be working with this summer. In the course of this, I decided that I would need to check all of the civilization starting locations to determine if any were poor or exceptionally good. It was when I started checking the Asian civilizations that I discovered a major quirk in the scenario that I am still trying to figure out how to work around.

The scenario has two different leader types, one for the European, African, and New World civilizations, and one for the Asiatic civilizations. The first is designated "Leader", and the second is designated "Leaders". They have basically the same statistics, although the Asian "Leaders" is slightly slower. There are two different Civilopedia entries and two different icons. Neither cost any shields or population to build. Both have the "finish improvement" box checked. There is one slight difference though.

The seven Asiatics civilizations (China, Japan, Mongol, Tibet, Indonesia, Cambodia, and Korea) can all build Leaders as soon as a city is founded, so right from the start. With the "finish improvements" box checked, they can complete normal buildings, finish Wonders, build Units, and oddly enough, generate Wealth. The Indonesians start with Mapmaking, so you build a "Leaders", start the Great Lighthouse, and viola, next turn, they have a Great Lighthouse. Need a Harbor in a new city, build a "Leaders", and two turns later, you have a Harbor. I have not gotten to ICBMs as yet, but with the ability for the Asiatics to build "Leaders" that then finish building units, I can see instant ICBMs coming.

As a check, I reset the scenario so that everyone had access to the "Leaders". Everyone now can build "Leaders" from the start of the game. As the "Leaders" cost absolutely nothing to build, except a mouse click, shield cost becomes a meaningless issue. The first civilization to a Tech with a Wonder can build the Wonder in one turn with a pre-built "Leaders". They also build Armies nicely, so the only limit on Armies is the number of cities required to support one Army. All this holds true if you are playing "Play the World". I have also converted Test ot Time to run under Civ3 Complete, and then the "Leaders" can only finish Wonders, not city improvements or units. However, they still can be built as soon as the first city is founded. I am not sure what the difference is between the two game engines.

As I would like to use the Play the World version for my class (the Barbarians are much more active in Play the World), I am trying to figure out how to deal with this quirk. At present, I have thought about the following options, but still need to test each of them.

1. Uncheck the "finish improvements" box, but that does take away from something that I consider vital to the game: the choice of rushing Wonders or building Armies.

2. Reset the Shield Cost to something like 100 or more, so no more instant "Leaders".

3. Set the population cost of building a "Leaders" to something like 4 or more, to slow things down.

4. Reset all of the civilizations to the "Leader", which CAN NOT be built, but then the chances of a player getting a "Leader" are pretty slim.

5. Use the Civ3 Complete version of the scenario, give all the Civilizations the "Leader", and have the Heroic Epic autoproduce the "Leader" a regular intervals. This would allow for rushing Wonders and building Armies for every player. I do lose the aggressive Barbarians though, but I could compensate there by making the harder to kill. That would require making certain civilizations not playable in the game, but that is doable.

Anyone have any other ideas? If so, let me know about them.

Anyone have any ideas why this quirk exists, start speculating. I have some thoughts regarding that.

One change I do have to make, with the greatest of regrets: I do have to give up my Dinosaurs, and Triceratops cavalry. Just not historical enough for the class.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I just got six copies of Civilization 3 Complete games from Amazon delivered today, and I would like to put them to use in my gaming class starting on July 6th. As I am also working on our World War 2 class as well, I really could use some help or advice on what is the best way of attacking the problem that I have discovered. I have come up with another option.

6. Set the leaders to require a specific resource to be built, and then have that resource appear later in the game, possibly on the same time as the starting location. I have used that before in another scenario.

My major problem in attacking it on my own is this minor thing called "lack of enough hours in the day".

To me it seems that your problem is caused by the second flavor leader (the "Leaders").

I would return to one type of leader (the one set in the General Settings of the Firaxis Editor).

Another solution if you would like to have simultaneously leaders for all players, would be to disable the leaders altogether and then let the palace autoproduce them on the longest possible interval (100 turns).

Kirejara said:

To me it seems that your problem is caused by the second flavor leader (the "Leaders").

I would return to one type of leader (the one set in the General Settings of the Firaxis Editor).

Another solution if you would like to have simultaneously leaders for all players, would be to disable the leaders altogether and then let the palace autoproduce them on the longest possible interval (100 turns).

Click to expand...

I may have to do that, but as there is no way to autoproduce units in Play the World, I will need to convert Test of Time to a .biq file, so as to run it under Conquests. I will keep testing various alternatives. If I do go that route, I probably will set the Heroic Epic to autoproduce leaders as well, but require a "Victorious Army."

Well, I decided the best way to determine how the game worked with the buildable Leaders was to play one all of the way through. I am playing Israel, and have the Mongols, Tibet, Abyssinia, Songhai, and Inca as opponents. The game's default AI intelligence level is Deity.

I was most interested in what use, if any, the AI would make of the availability of Leaders. The answer to that is "None". I have diplomatic contact with all but the Incas, and the focus of the AI is cranking out Settlers. As they cost 4 population each, and the AI is building them regardless of how small the city is, they are getting cities, but not a lot of anything else. Tibet and the Mongols are doing quite well, but the Songhai and Abyssinia are getting pounded by the existing Barbarians already in the game, and also by the increased numbers and increased combat ability of my Dinosaurs.

The nicest things with the instant Leaders is the ability to establish a city on the coast, and then have a Harbor in two turns, or one turn if I send a Leaders along with the settlement. As I have the Harbor set to boost food, shields, and gold in the water, that gives a real jump start to the city.

I have reset the bonus against Barbarians at the Chieftain level to 200 from 800, and with the scenarios preplaced Elite Barbarians, my Dinosaurs, and the boosted Barbarians from camps (Gallic Swordsman and Nomadic Horseman with added hit points), so combat against them is not easy. I have been burning through a lot of Galleys in the Mediterranean, and the only way to survive in exploring south of the Sahara is to do it with an Army of Horseman. Not your typical exploration tactics. With the problems in the Med, I have been expanding into the Indian Ocean, where there are a lot fewer pre-placed Barbarians. They are mainly in the Indonesian and Philippines Archipelagos, and up by Japan and Korea. If India was in the game, they would pretty much have a free hand, as there are no Barbarians for them to encounter. I will have to change that. The greatest number of pre-placed Barbarians are in the Med, North Sea, Mid-Atlantic, and Caribbean areas. The Scandinavians are really sandwiched between a total of 4 groups, besides the nautical Barbarians. Africa is full of them, with South America to a less degree. I definitely will need to add some to the Indian Ocean area though.