magnusmarcus
Prince
I believe I'm way beyond the point of diminishing returns with testing this routine. It is all going to be a crap shoot with that archer.
SGOTM 15 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
magnusmarcus
Prince
No he's not healing and i believe the toku archer didnt even explore down there this time. Its like hes just camped out and the only time i can get him to move is when i put a unit next to which he quickly spanks and then insta promotes and kills the next warrior.
I've had 3 warriors die to this 1 archer
Dhoomstriker
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Good idea. And yes, Mitchum, it can be done because we're replacing your following 4 Worker actions:
Mitchum said:
No, the behaviour is not normal. As I was discussing earlier, it is because when you create an Archer using the World Builder, the Archer is assigned the "UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE" script.magnusmarcus said:
However, whenever a Barb Archer is automatically created, it is actually assigned the "UNITAI_ATTACK" script.
There is a bug with using the "UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE" script on a unit that is not inside of a City, in that the unit will never "realise" that it has a stupid script assigned to it, so the unit will forever sit there... unless there is a unit within attacking reach that it feels is worth attacking, at which point it will attack your unit.
This behaviour has nothing to do with how a regular game of Civ works, since a Barb Archer will not spawn with the "UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE" script assigned to it if that unit is not inside of a Barb City.
So, you have two possible fixes:
1. Use the slightly-updated test game that I provided, which corrects that issue and corrects a few other things
OR, if you are already far in your testing:
2. Correct it yourself. To change the Barb Archer's script, enter the World Builder (press Escape to bring up the main game menu and then choose the Enter WorldBuilder option and confirm that you want to enter the WorldBuilder). Next, click on the bottom-left-most icon at the top right of the page... the icon that looks like a yellow circle with green colouring inside of it and which has alt text that reads "Edit Unit Mode." Next, click on the Archer and in the resulting pop-up window, change the drop-down list that has "UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE" listed to the "UNITAI_ATTACK" option. Then, close the World Builder by Clicking on the "Exit World Builder" icon at the very top right of the screen that looks like a picture of a globe that is almost completely covered by a red circle and red line going through the circle. Then, save your game so that you won't have to make that change over and over again.
I suggest that you simply use my test game if you haven't progressed too far in your steps yet, since it also corrects the names of our units and takes away Hinduism from Zlatorog, which we do not have in the real game (unfortunately).
EDIT: Here's a link to the Updated Test Game, in case you missed it on the last page.
magnusmarcus
Prince
I did indeed miss it ty
Dhoomstriker
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My personal opinion is that the trickiest part is not going to be killing the AIs, which we could do with masses of any type of units, but the possibility of having to go overseas to kill the last opponent.Bulbing to Trebs and Maces
If we think that getting to trebs and maces is important and we want to bulb our way there with GSs, there is the option of skipping Fishing. If we don't learn Fishing or Civil Service and we learn Alphabet, Aesthetics (needed for Literature and the epics anyway), Calendar (bananas), IW and MC, we could use two GSs to bulb Engineering and Machinery.
This gets us trebs and maces much quicker and allows us to run scientists to suppliment our research. It also allows us to leverege our Philosophical trait. The drawbacks to skipping Fishing for so long are that we can't net Marble City's crab (+2) and we can't send out any exploring workboats.
If we don't do this, what do we plan to do with any non-GEs we generate? Settle? Golden Ages? Bulb up the Astronomy line?
Just thought I'd throw that out there... chop...
If we go for a militaristic victory, if the Peaks in the test game are any indication, Domination is not very likely to be feasible. So, it's Conquest or a non-military victory.
If we need Astronomy for Conquest, we're probably screwed if we don't leave ourselves a way to get Astronomy.
I'm not sure how much land warring you've done in BtS, but it's way tougher to push across land in BtS than it is in Vanilla or Warlords. Essentially, in BtS, the AIs keep a minimal defense and then whip defenders and send defenders from other Cities to City that you are putting under threat.
There are three efficient ways of dealing with this problem:
1. Research Code of Laws, gift it/sell it to an AI, then bribe them or use Espionage Points against them to switch their Civics into Caste System. If they are running Caste System, they won't be running Slavery and therefore they can't whip units.
2. Use 2-movement-point units to attack. It's crazy how effective doing so is in BtS. Also, unlike in Warlords, Horse Archers don't get a penalty for attacking Cities. If we can find a source of Horses, we'll be golden and won't need all of these fancy Trebs + Maces for a while to come (not until Longbowmen show up will we really desperately want them).
3. Attack by sea. As we discovered last game, AIs do not feel threatened by units at sea, so they don't react properly. In BtS, that means an AI often keeps a minimal amount of defenders in their Cities and then BAM, you decend upon them and it's too late for them to whip up much resistance.
Personally, I would like to skip Iron Working and tech Code of Laws next. Getting Courthouses will be solid for two reasons:
1. Being able to reduce our Maintenance on a Maintenance-heavy map where we are not allowed to raze Cities (and thus City-capture Gold won't carry us very far)
AND
2. Being able to gift around Code of Laws, which will have the AIs build Courthouses for us to capture (and thus they may build less units to defend their Cities), and which will give the AIs a chance to auto-switch into Caste System or at least to be converted into Caste System by us
After that, I would plan to get Horseback Riding while we meet additional AIs, then tech Archery for Horse Archers, optionally with those 2 techs in reverse order. If we don't have a source of Horse Resources, we'll obviously have to scrap this idea, in which case Axes + Cats can march toward the east and we can hopefully gift away Code of Laws and attack whichever AI is to the east of Toku in hopes of getting a Horse Resource before taking on Hammurabi.
Of course, the gifting of Code of Laws idea requires an AI to tech Alphabet, but if we're going to Lightbulb Philosophy at some point, we'll have to learn Alphabet, if I recall correctly, before Philosophy will become a Lightbulbable option.
I also suggest that we skip Civil Service (once again, our capital isn't very solid for Commerce and its actually our secondary Cities that all have the Gold or Gem Resources, meaning that Bureaucracy isn't going to be amazingly powerful and may hurt us a lot in terms of Maintenance due to all of the Cities that will increase our Maintenance for a High Cost Civic like Bureaucracy) and plan to Lightbulb up the Astronomy line at some point... which we may end up never having to do, but I think that it's wise to leave this avenue open to us.
Likely, we'll only get 1 Great Prophet from The Oracle (assuming that we don't get beat to building this Wonder), which can build the Hindu Holy Shrine. We'll want the extra Gold in this game from having to keep all of the high-Maintenance, potentially poorly-placed AI Cities.
Note that one possible tactic, if we don't capture The Great Wall, is to allow Barbs to capture Cities that we take from the AIs. It's generally not easy to do, but once the Barbs get a couple of Cities, they can really get on a roll in terms of taking over other Cities if you "help them" by abandoning the Cities that you capture. Doing so would allow us to whip Cities to the bone and then abandon them to the Barbs.
Mitchum
Deity
Dhoom said:
Got it. What you quoted was a very old plan, which I have not been doing because I wasn't using the second Zlatorog worker to chop that forest. I was thinking that LC was talking about roading next to a forest near Gems City, in which case the workers would still have to move three tiles to get next to the marble. With this worker movement, we're actually performing an action on the turn that we were just moving the workers 3 spaces so as not to waste any worker turns. Much better.
Mitchum
Deity
There shouldn't be that much more testing required. I think all of the information is in the thread. Follow my MM for the citizens in Delhi and the worker actions around Gems City with the addition of LC's nugget quoted by Dhoom. Use your MM for the southern workers. Plan for success. Plan your MM assuming that the barb archer will be take care of somehow. Then, if something happens that gets you off this plan, stop and we'll re-assess.
I think it might be possible to lure the archer east. If we time it right, the archer will be moving away from Marble City. We should be able to quickly finish an axe in either GEL or Delhi once the Oracle is done... if we get that far.
BTW, you also have to figure out how best to utilize the new Zlatorog worker.
magnusmarcus
Prince
Mitchum
Deity
Nice work!! I have to say that this was a very complicated turnset and you've done well.
I have a few comments. Some of them are minor but I'd rather err on having a complete plan to assume anything.
T53 In the real game, you still have to select the next tech to research. We all know that it's The Wheel since you learn it on T55, but just to make sure... I think you'll also have to select what to build in Delhi but I don't remember.
T54 Moving the warrior s to marble-E is a risky move. If the barb archer is on one of three tiles, our warrior is toast. I think we need to keep this warrior where he is until we see where the barb archer is...
T54 When you MM Delhi to work max food, be sure to work a grass forest (2F1H) and not a grass river (2F1C) with the fourth citizen. Otherwise the library does not finish.
T55 You're building a settler after the library, yes?
T55 Which tile are you working in Gems city?
T59 We haven't fully agreed what to research after TW -> PH -> Pottery. We can go Fishing (prevents the Engineering and Machinery GS bulbs), Hunting, IW, MC, others? We need to nail this down.
T59 This is the turn that our marble settler is done. We need to know where the barb archer is by T57 or so without taking any unnessecary risks. Maybe someone has some clever ideas on how to do this... In my test game, he stayed hidden in the fog, but Toku's archer is headed that way. In our game, Toku has already scouted this area so I'm not sure if he'll go back. He did hug our cultural borders, so there will be some tiles to explore.
T59 At this point, we can either keep building the warrior in Nature's Candi or switch to a granary. This may be a good stopping point to decide based on what the barb archer is doing. I'd rather not delay the granary there if we can help it and the warrior will come too late to help settle Marble on time anyway...
T60 If we decide to research Hunting next, now would be the turn to set research back to 100% so that we learn Hunting on the turn the Zlatorog worker is done.
T62 If we decide to research Fishing, Crab Marble will build a work boat instead of a granary... Which tile you work might depend on what you're building.
T62 My warrior in Nature's Candi only has 13/15
???
Open items:
Tech path after Pottery?
What to do with the barb in the north?
How to safely deal with the barb in the south?
Do we build a warrior or partial library in Nature's Candi? Do we switch to a granary as soon as we learn Pottery?
I have to say that this was a very complicated turnset and you've done well. I have a few comments. Some of them are minor but I'd rather err on having a complete plan to assume anything.
T53 In the real game, you still have to select the next tech to research. We all know that it's The Wheel since you learn it on T55, but just to make sure... I think you'll also have to select what to build in Delhi but I don't remember.
T54 Moving the warrior s to marble-E is a risky move. If the barb archer is on one of three tiles, our warrior is toast. I think we need to keep this warrior where he is until we see where the barb archer is...
T54 When you MM Delhi to work max food, be sure to work a grass forest (2F1H) and not a grass river (2F1C) with the fourth citizen. Otherwise the library does not finish.
T55 You're building a settler after the library, yes?
T55 Which tile are you working in Gems city?
T59 We haven't fully agreed what to research after TW -> PH -> Pottery. We can go Fishing (prevents the Engineering and Machinery GS bulbs), Hunting, IW, MC, others? We need to nail this down.
T59 This is the turn that our marble settler is done. We need to know where the barb archer is by T57 or so without taking any unnessecary risks. Maybe someone has some clever ideas on how to do this... In my test game, he stayed hidden in the fog, but Toku's archer is headed that way. In our game, Toku has already scouted this area so I'm not sure if he'll go back. He did hug our cultural borders, so there will be some tiles to explore.
T59 At this point, we can either keep building the warrior in Nature's Candi or switch to a granary. This may be a good stopping point to decide based on what the barb archer is doing. I'd rather not delay the granary there if we can help it and the warrior will come too late to help settle Marble on time anyway...
T60 If we decide to research Hunting next, now would be the turn to set research back to 100% so that we learn Hunting on the turn the Zlatorog worker is done.
T62 If we decide to research Fishing, Crab Marble will build a work boat instead of a granary... Which tile you work might depend on what you're building.
T62 My warrior in Nature's Candi only has 13/15
???Open items:
Tech path after Pottery?
What to do with the barb in the north?
How to safely deal with the barb in the south?
Do we build a warrior or partial library in Nature's Candi? Do we switch to a granary as soon as we learn Pottery?
Dhoomstriker
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How do you lure an Archer around? Does the Archer have to be on a Hills square or your Warrior has to be on a Hills square, such that the two units are two squares apart from each other? Is that what you meant? Is there any other way to lure an Archer?Mitchum said:
If yes, then let's think about it... depending upon where the Barb Archer could be now, it might make sense to move Warrior 1 (John) 1E onto the Grassland (1SE of the GRiv Copper) if we think that we're 100% certain that the Barb Archer isn't on the Grassland that is SE + SE of the Grassland River Copper.
On the following turn, if the Barb Archer does not appear next to our Warrior, we could move 1E onto the Grassland Hills square, which would hopefully be a very good spot from which to lure the Barb Archer.
Here's the image again:
Spoiler :
Barb Archer
On what turn did we last see the Barb Archer and on what square was he located? I'll need to know that before I can suggest a course of action.
DO NOTE: A Worker that starts Chopping the Nature's Candy's Forest will spawn-bust the west for us.
At that point, Warrior 2 (Jack) will be freed up from spawn-busting the west. He could then feasibly push toward the east, but which square to the east will depend upon where the Barb Archer is located.
Once we've got the plan nailed down for the techs, Worker actions, etc (I'm sorry but I'm too tired to run through it tonight), then we can possibly play one or two turns at a time and then just give the team an update on the location of the Barb units and decide as a team how to move our Warriors to respond to the threats.
ANOTHER THOUGHT: Is it really such a terrible idea to build an Axeman from somewhere? Is there anywhere that can do so? Possibly Gold-E Locks. We'll delay Hunting and/or Fishing by no longer working the Gold Resource, but we might actually be able to settle Marble City with less fear. I'm not sure that we can actually get an Axeman from there in time, though. How soon does Copper get hooked up again? Probably too late, right?
Mitchum said:
Essentially, we want to try to get a 10% Fortification bonus on the Forest. For that to happen, we'll need the Barb Warrior to wander away two squares away from the GRiv For that is 1W of the GRiv For Deer, at which point we'll move onto the GRiv For that is 1W of the GRiv For Deer and Fortify there.
Here's a possible heuristic (I think that it covers all cases but I'm tired so maybe not):
Turn 53
Move Warrior 3: 1E GRiv For (1W of Zlatorog)
Barb Warrior moves NE
Turn 54
Move Warrior 3: 1W GRiv (2W of Zlatorog)
Barb Warrior Option A: Moves 1SW G
Repeat the moves starting from Turn 53
Barb Warrior Option B: Moves 1SE GRiv For (1W of the GRiv For Deer)
Turn 55B:
Move Warrior 3: 1E GRiv For (1W of Zlatorog)
B1: Barb Warrior attacks (I don't think that it's possible, but then we're done)
B2: Barb Warrior moves NW GRiv (1N of the Lake)
Repeat the moves starting from Turn 54
Barb Warrior Option C: Moves toward the north
Turn 55C:
Move Warrior 3: 1N GRiv For (1W of the GRiv For Deer)
Barb Warrior option X: moves back south
Turn 56X: Retreat Warrior 1S GRiv (2W of Zlatorog)
From here we follow the Barb options from Turn 54
Barb Warrior Option Y: moves away to the north
Turn 56Y: We stay Fortified on the GRiv For (1W of the GRiv For Deer)
I'd say start on a Warrior (we won't be building a Library during my turnset, I can guarantee you that now--I am going to be a whipping biatch) and then start on a Granary as soon as we learn Pottery.Mitchum said:
If we're desperate for another Warrior (like if the Barb Archer kills all of our units AND enters our Cultural Borders), we can then 1-pop-whip said Warrior, but otherwise will probably work on the Granary for quite some time... and I might 1-pop-whip the Warrior once we reach City Size 3 during my turnset.
I haven't played out this idea, but like I said, there's no way that I'll be building a Library, so we might as well dump whatever few Hammers we get before Pottery into a Warrior.
I'm voting for Fishing -> Hunting -> Code of LawsMitchum said:
Yes, getting Fishing messes up your good Lightbulbing idea, but a Great Engineer can still Lightbulb Machinery regardless of whether we learn Fishing.
Having an exploring Work Boat will be quite invaluable for figuring out if we might need Astronomy and trust me, after I'm done with my turnset, there won't be any people left to hire as Scientist Specialists for a while to come, anyway.
Even if we don't need Astronomy, having a fleet of 3 to 4 Galleys could prove to be a huge tactical advantage during our second war, and we can't build Galleys if we avoid researching Fishing.
I see no reason to beeline Iron Working. It's a favourite tech of the AIs. If we can't ever get it in trade or as part of a peace deal, we can certainly research it faster via piggyback research once we have met additional AIs.
While we don't really need Confucianism, we also don't necessarily care that much if an AI founds it, while we really do want access to Courthouses and the possibility of being able to (eventually) gift Code of Laws to some AIs so that they might be duped into running Caste System.
magnusmarcus
Prince
I Moved jack down into the bananas without putting him at risk. this lured the archer west
When i saw him i retreated and the archer followed. (now that i know where the archer is I could move south with the other warrior without risk)
Run away with jack into our borders and then the archer turned around and went after (John?)
Combination of workers working nature's candy and jack on very edge of culture border and Barb archer keeps fog busting active.
John then led the barb warrior like a leash until he moved onto gold safely.
The wicked barb of the north went north in the save game.
We could wait to see if he does the same in the real game then move north onto the forest for fort bonus
am i correct in thinking this prevents other barbs... ie a barb archer from spawning if so lets let him live for now
I had nature's candy work immediately on a warrior until completion working the pigs the entire time
Delhi may need a troop for happiness managment if we decide to whip a granary.
When i saw him i retreated and the archer followed. (now that i know where the archer is I could move south with the other warrior without risk)
Run away with jack into our borders and then the archer turned around and went after (John?)
Combination of workers working nature's candy and jack on very edge of culture border and Barb archer keeps fog busting active.
John then led the barb warrior like a leash until he moved onto gold safely.
The wicked barb of the north went north in the save game.
We could wait to see if he does the same in the real game then move north onto the forest for fort bonus
am i correct in thinking this prevents other barbs... ie a barb archer from spawning if so lets let him live for now
I had nature's candy work immediately on a warrior until completion working the pigs the entire time
Delhi may need a troop for happiness managment if we decide to whip a granary.
LowtherCastle
Deity
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That's clever, magnus. I'm not sure barb units actually chase from two tiles away, though. It might just have been random. ZPV could maybe confirm that.
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Okay, I think maybe we could play one turn forward, but I'm not sure. Please correct me if I'm wrong, magnus and MItchum: In both or your original plans (magnus 1pop, Mitchum 2pop) you both work corn+copper+2 mines on T53, correct or not?
If so, then I don't see why we couldn't move one turn forward. Reason? To see where Toku's vagrant archer goes. If it heads SW (hopefully) then that could give us some hope. What I'm thinking here is this. Using Magnus' original plan (1pop), we have spare food in Delhi. That means when the settler is done, we could build an axe next! We simply connect the copper to Delhi before connecting GEL. Then with the spare food we can work the copper mine instead of the corn farm. 7hpt. The workers that chop NW of the marble could finish that chop, 16h. That would finish the axe in 3t, T62.
That axe would not be done in time for a T64 Oracle, but he would provide a back-up, in case the barb archer screws us. This would all be conditional, turn by turn, depending on what happens. We might lure the archer away, we might be covered by Toku, etc. In any case, we'd have a fallback and we could hope to complete the Oracle on T66 or whatever.
--------------
Okay, I think maybe we could play one turn forward, but I'm not sure. Please correct me if I'm wrong, magnus and MItchum: In both or your original plans (magnus 1pop, Mitchum 2pop) you both work corn+copper+2 mines on T53, correct or not?
If so, then I don't see why we couldn't move one turn forward. Reason? To see where Toku's vagrant archer goes. If it heads SW (hopefully) then that could give us some hope. What I'm thinking here is this. Using Magnus' original plan (1pop), we have spare food in Delhi. That means when the settler is done, we could build an axe next! We simply connect the copper to Delhi before connecting GEL. Then with the spare food we can work the copper mine instead of the corn farm. 7hpt. The workers that chop NW of the marble could finish that chop, 16h. That would finish the axe in 3t, T62.
That axe would not be done in time for a T64 Oracle, but he would provide a back-up, in case the barb archer screws us. This would all be conditional, turn by turn, depending on what happens. We might lure the archer away, we might be covered by Toku, etc. In any case, we'd have a fallback and we could hope to complete the Oracle on T66 or whatever.
magnusmarcus
Prince
Not quite at that point I knew where the archer is. See previous post
The piggies for quicker warrior completion. (Just in case SHTF with barb archer would like another warrior quicker and may need it for unhappiness mitigation in delhi)
Agreed. In this iteration I only researched the minimum techs necessary + Pottery to see when we could upgrade a warrior to an axe.
I thought I had a clever idea. Depending if archers chase units "In the open" from 2 squares away. Personally I think a warrior on grassland even at 2 squares away is like red meat to a hungry dog to wandering barbarians
In my test I worked the warrior to completion and then started granary
We need a team decision on this. Until we get this I wont include in my plan.
We need a team decision on this. Until we get this I wont include in my plan.
T62 My warrior in Nature's Candi only has 13/15
See above
magnusmarcus
Prince
Note: If the team wants me to commence with this turn set I probably have to do it sooner rather than later (This weekend). Next week there will be times I will not be available for 48 - 72 hrs at a pop
I believe you are correct Lowther
Unless I recieve an objection I am going to play 1 turn tonight. (Approx 17:30 hrs Central Time)
53 1880Bc
Tech at 100% WHEEL
Finish Chops
Settler sw nw
Delhi Start Library
MM Delhi 2 mines bronze corn
Jack will be moving to banana to lure Archer from hiding hopefully
I believe you are correct Lowther
Unless I recieve an objection I am going to play 1 turn tonight. (Approx 17:30 hrs Central Time)
53 1880Bc
Tech at 100% WHEEL
Finish Chops
Settler sw nw
Delhi Start Library
MM Delhi 2 mines bronze corn
Jack will be moving to banana to lure Archer from hiding hopefully
LowtherCastle
Deity
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Okay by me.
magnusmarcus
Prince
Turn 2040BC Barb archer is 1E 1SE of marble
Mitchum
Deity
Go ahead and play the next turn as proposed. BUT, I wouldn't move Jack. He is currently spawn busting the square at gems-W. If he moves to the bananas, that tile is fair game for a new barb and then we'd have real issues. Jack can move the following turn once the settler and workers are spawn busting those tiles.
This could take a few days if we play a turn at a time due to time differences and when magnusmarcus plans to play... We need to aim to have this turnset finished by Sunday so that magnusmarcus can finish it.
Since we haven't seen the barb archer in something like four turns, he could be in any of the 8 unfogged tiles. If I understand barb movement properly, he won't come next to our cultural borders right now (< 30 cities) so the only tiles he might show up on without us doing anything are crabs-1N and GEL-SW+SW+S. Otherwise he'll happily bounce around in the fog of war until either one of our warriors or Toku's archer "takes a chance."
Should we even consider bringing the GEL warrior over for support? Or does this leave the door too wide open for Toku? My guess is that even if Toku plans to attack, it will be after he has a small stack of archers, which shouldn't happen until after T64. By then we'll have a stack of axes headed east anyway...
EDIT: GEL could whip a 0H warrior in case of an emergency. This whipped warrior would have the same fortification bonus as the one on the sheep tile if we got DOWed and he had to step into GEL for defense...
This could take a few days if we play a turn at a time due to time differences and when magnusmarcus plans to play... We need to aim to have this turnset finished by Sunday so that magnusmarcus can finish it.
Since we haven't seen the barb archer in something like four turns, he could be in any of the 8 unfogged tiles. If I understand barb movement properly, he won't come next to our cultural borders right now (< 30 cities) so the only tiles he might show up on without us doing anything are crabs-1N and GEL-SW+SW+S. Otherwise he'll happily bounce around in the fog of war until either one of our warriors or Toku's archer "takes a chance."
Should we even consider bringing the GEL warrior over for support? Or does this leave the door too wide open for Toku? My guess is that even if Toku plans to attack, it will be after he has a small stack of archers, which shouldn't happen until after T64. By then we'll have a stack of axes headed east anyway...
EDIT: GEL could whip a 0H warrior in case of an emergency. This whipped warrior would have the same fortification bonus as the one on the sheep tile if we got DOWed and he had to step into GEL for defense...
LowtherCastle
Deity
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Gems-W is already being fogbusted by a worker. Jack is free to move to teh bananas.
I'm not worried about Toku DoWing us whatsoever. He first needs to research BW and hook up a copper mine or hook up horses. Kyoto could be sitting on copper, of course, but we'll know exactly when he's got it hooked up and we'll have ours hooked up soon too.
At the same time, I don't really want to send the GEL warrior away because he's doing important fog-bustin now.
I'm not worried about Toku DoWing us whatsoever. He first needs to research BW and hook up a copper mine or hook up horses. Kyoto could be sitting on copper, of course, but we'll know exactly when he's got it hooked up and we'll have ours hooked up soon too.
At the same time, I don't really want to send the GEL warrior away because he's doing important fog-bustin now.
Mitchum
Deity
Yep. I didn't see that worker in the screen shot I was looking at at the time.
Good point. I guess what we do hinges on what Toku's archer does. If the archer heads NE, we will likely need support to handle the barb archer because the two warriors we have can't do much safely without getting owned by the barb. If Toku's archer heads SW, we're golden.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
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The test game has the Barb Archer placed at a random location--we have to be very careful not to base our movements in the real game based on this random factor of the test game.magnusmarcus said:
I would also like to see confirmation that a Barb Archer will actually feel tempted to chase our Warrior from two squares away. If we can't consistently reproduce this behaviour, then I wonder if we can get a Barb Archer to consistently chase our Warrior if the Barb Archer has visibility of our Warrior.
Visibility of our Warrior would require that the Barb Archer have a view of us from 2 squares away.
One way for that to happen is for the Barb Archer to walk onto a Hills square that doesn't have its view blocked by other squares.
Another way is for us to walk on a Hills square that doesn't have its view blocked from the location of the Barb Archer.
If someone is able to do some testing, here is what I Would recommend:
Get a wide-open section of a test map (it doesn't even have to be for our test game).
Place a Warrior of ours (select the "Warrior" unit in the list of units----the "Build a unit" part of the World Builder is opened by default when you open the World Builder).
Place a Barb Archer two squares away from our Warrior (select Barbarian Civilization from the drop-down list on the "build a unit" part of the World Builder and then select the Archer unit in the World Builder's list of units).
Click on the bottom-left icon of the icons at the top left of the World Builder's screen that says something like "Edit Unit Properties" (those aren't the right words). Then, click on the Barb Archer and change his script to "UNITAI_ATTACK" from "UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE."
Next, exit the World Builder (the top-right icon of the icons at the top-right of the page).
Then, save your game.
From here, you can end the turn and see if you are able to lure the Barb Archer around.
Part of the problem with our existing test game is that there isn't much space for the Barb Archer to move--he's either going east or west. If we have a situation where there is a lot more room for a Barb Archer to follow us, it will be a much better test.
Plan to reload that saved game that you made and re-enter the World Builder--you might need to delete your Warrior (select the "Warrior" icon to build Warriors and right-click on your existing Warrior to delete him, then build a new one), so that you can test whether the Barb Archer actually follows you or whether he just randomly went in the same direction of our Warrior in the first test.
Also, you can try changing the location of the Archer (just remember to update its script) or our Warrior such that they should be able to see each other thanks to a Hills square.
You could place several pairings of Barb Archers and our Warriors (again, remember to update the script for each Barb Warrior to UNITAT_ATTACK) when you are in the World Builder, then exit the World Builder and save your game, so that you will have multiple tests running concurrently.
Note that my suggestion of moving our Warrior 1E initially does two things:
1. It gives us a free chance for a free Forest to grow
AND
2. If a Barb unit DOES chase us, it "hides" us from the Barb Warrior... since, otherwise, if we stay next to the Lake, the Barb Warrior will be able to see us... and if Barbs really can "chase" your units, then the Barb Warrior may be tempted to "chase" our Warrior and thus if we stay next to the Lake, the Barb Warrior may never choose to wander away to the north (assuming that Barb units actually chase our units)
Thanks. Just to confirm, you mean the square that is 1N of the Crab and 1SE of the Grassland Banana, right?magnusmarcus said:
That would be Turn 49 2040BC.
It is now Turn Turn 53 1880BC.
So, that means that for four turns (Turns 49, 50, 51, and 52) the Barb Archer has been moving around out of sight.
Really, the Barb Archer could be just about anywhere and maybe we will be forced to just wait for him to show his face.
Actually, we can't really safely make this move. If we move Warrior 2 (Jack) 1S onto the Grassland Banana, we'll no longer be spawn-busting the Grassland River square that is 1W of the Grassland River Gems square. As such, we might cause yet another Barb unit to appear!magnusmarcus said:
However, we can safely move Warrior 1 (John) off of the GFor Riv: we can move him 1E onto the Grassland 1SE of the GRiv Copper.
From there, we'll have the option of moving further east onto a Grassland Hills square... but before moving to the Grassland Hills square, we'll want to see what the Barb Archer does. We might not end up moving there or we might... if a Barb Archer will be lured by a unit that it can see 2 squares away, that Grassland Hills square (SE + E of the GRiv Copper) will be a decent spot from which to lure the Barb Archer toward the east.
Our spawn-busting coverage will not be affected by us moving Warrior 1 (John) 1E onto the Grassland square, but it might be if we were to move further east onto the Grassland Hills square, so we need to evaluate the situation a bit better.
SUMMARY
1. It would be awesome if someone put in the time to test the luring of Barbs, but we don't really need this info yet if we're only playing 1 turn, so I can fit in some time this weekend to do said testing if no one has done so by then.
2. Don't make this move:
3. Assuming that I am right in believing that we last saw the Barb Archer on Turn 49 2040BC on the square that is 1SE of the Grassland Banana and 1N of Crab, then make this move:magnusmarcus said:
John (Warrior 1) will move 1E to the Grassland (1SE of the GRiv Copper)
4. Make this move:
Warrior 3 will move 1E to the GRiv For (1W of Zlatorog)
