TSG83 Opening Actions

Welcome to the TSG83 Opening Actions thread.

STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed at least 80 to 100 turns in your game.

This thread is used to discuss the game once you've started playing through your first 100 turns. Apart from normal decency, the only posting restrictions are to please not post videos until the deadline is finished and to use the spoiler tags for screenshots. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. Please remember that we are running a family friendly site, so express anger or frustration with this in mind.

Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through the first 100 turns. We are going to try something new and limit your game description in this thread to the first 100 turns. Anything after that should be posted in the After Action thread once you have completed your game.

- How did you get the most out of your advanced start?
- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
- What were your initial priorities?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
- Any early wars, who started them and what was the result?

A misserable game. I had played 3 practice games with the setup.

Moved settler 1 south to hill across river, which gave me a coastal start with 4 fish. Moved second settler northeast towards the salt, and settled beside the oasis, as on the coast would probably upset america. Discover Mt Sinia to the west, built third settler, and grabbed it.

Built 4th settler went east from moscow, and settled on the coast, by the whales, for another coastal city to send food to Moscow.

Due to barbs and finding NW I allied 4 city states. Notice america is not expanding, rome is expanding, england is expanding, france is not expanding... unable to bribe america or france who are neighbors into waring with each other... america is #1 in military. I have been given 5 military units from city states, plus the 3 cross bows and 2 caravels I built.... I am #6 in military. America beats me to discovering all other civs, by one civ... Still propose World Fairs, and had built forbidden palace in Moscow.

it is now 72 turns into the game, worlds fair has passed, and america attacks....with 5 cannons, 3 lancers, and 5 war infantry. I use my cossacks upgraded from donated knights, and gattling guns to try and repel...3 turns later, my city by the oasis is americas, and he is marching on moscow... I had chopped the forest to be sure I got the forbidden palace.

on turn 80 america owned Moscow....I quit the game.

Starting in the Renaissance era changes the game dynamics.

I settled the northern settler in place on the river for the salt, silk, horsies, iron, and 2 wheat. The southern settler I sent west for more salt and hit the religious jackpot in Mt. Sinai, which I settled next to. I sat on these 2 cities until I hit industrialisation, and then sent a third settler north to the mountains for the coal, cotton, and observatory.

I made the mt sinai city my holy city because of its close proximity to cs and rome. Went earth mother, church property, pagodas, mosques, itinerant preachers. In retrospect, due to beelining industrial era, I should have not picked mosques and went with +15% production instead because of the heavy costs of the buildings (400 faith each). Still haven't bought 1 of these buildings yet...missed borobudur by 2 turns and thus had to buy the 500 faith prophet instead to start spreading.

Policies I went rationalism, commerce, landsneckts, cheaper purchase costs/science in gold buildings. First build in both cities was workshop for quick great engineers, followed by aqueducts for growth, and then caravans for more growth/gold from cs, and then markets. Next policy was +2 science per specialist, and then +2 gold from trade routes...mostly becuase I wanted to eventually finish commerce...prolly should have picked faster GS rate instead due to my abysmal culture output (still haven't built any culture buildings).

Freedom for ideology for my specialist focused economy and soon for the foriegn legions. Used oxford to get dynamite and am about to wipe out rome.

Too bad it ended up Emperor by mistake, I guess. It would have been a little harder give where Roma and Washington were placed.

Monarchy + Commerce Opener. Settle in place and settled west on coast for Mt Sinai. PP to Pisa to Banking for FP with Pisa GE kinda seals it. Wagon Trains, then Consulates. Try to steal Gunpowder or Astronomy. Then tech thru ages.

Initial priorities were the basics: a scout, another worker, caravans!, library, markets, more caravans and a crossbow. Second city built a trireme.

Turn 285. Caesar is gone. Washington is out. Napoleon has been vanquished. On to Poland, Germany and China. Just entered the Atomic Era. My Cossacks and artillery are taking over the world.

To start, I saw the deer on the coast, so I settled just north of the sheep. Bought the salt right away for 50g. Took 4 into Liberty, because I feel there's so much that needs to be done right away to get the empire up and running. Sent one settler west and the other east. Plopped one city south of Sinai, the other in range of the whales and fur on the coast. Bought the fur from Jerusalem with CS cash. Met Samarkand and immediately pledged protection and put my spy there.

Worker in capital, then trade route, library and NC. Second cities went library, aqueduct, krepost, trade route, coliseum. The krepost is very useful with a Liberty start, as border growth is painful. Religion wise, I picked up all passive abilities, as I didn't think spending faith on industrial era buildings would be wise. In hindsight, I have nothing to spend faith on but prophets. I took tithe, fertility rights, swords into plowshares and 15% production (I forget the name). I did this last GOTM and liked it, and I thought it would make up for Liberty's lack of growth bonuses.

I researched banking, astronomy then printing press. After, straight to industrialization, then took the bottom of the tree straight to artillery. I used the Liberty GE on Pisa, hardbuilt Forbidden Palace, and used the Pisa GE on Brandenburg. I also hardbuilt Taj Mahal for some happiness, as Casimir beat me to Notre Dame.

It's been a fun game so far, although I wish it was Immortal, not Emperor. The AI has hardly and units to kill, which is less fun. I went autocracy, and I'm planning on Gunboat Diplomacy for the bulk of my influence. I've never been too clear with the DV timings, but I should just be entering modern when China is being finished. At that point I'll just be waiting for the vote to happen.

I should have had a practice on these settings. Awful so far. Concentrated on getting buildings going when I should have taken out Rome and plopped another settler down. (I always seem to be intimidated by Rome - never had much joy against them).

Economy is rubbish so can't buy much and CS alliances are expensive. I am stuck in a peaceful rut now. Missed Pisa but got Forbidden Palace.


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I moved first settler south to settle on the coast, turned out to be fortuitous as there were 5 fish in range, second one when north to capture the 3 salt near the oasis.

In my practice games I noticed that the initial build-able units crossbowman, trebuchet etc can easily take out the new cities of your neighbors. I decided to attack my nearest neighbor at the first opportunity (America) fell quickly and was eliminated from the game, and I had only met Rome and England, so no Diplo penalty with the un-met civs.

I went for Leaning Tower first, with the idea of getting a great engineer and building forbidden place. I got both. My intention is to get as many world congress votes as possible, and will propose my religion Buddhism as the world religion at the first opportunity. Currently I have 3 CS allies, all my traded routs are up and have a good income.

I'm in good shape, I'll probably go after Rome and England when I get artillery. With the intention of mostly playing a domination game until there are so few AI's left I can win the vote in a walkover.

This is an overview of the situation after about 100 turns:



I am glad I played a few test starts to get acquainted with this type of game. The difficulty setting being different (Emperor in stead of Immortal) did make quite a difference: Other civs play a very small role. They have little money and are not able to pose a military threat. I think a higher difficulty would have been nice.

I have founded four cities. The northeastern settler founded Moscow in place. The other one went looking for a good other place. I think that was the most exiting part of the game, because there were many good spots. Once mt. Sinai was discovered the second city was founded southeast of that holy mountain. Observatory plus a lot of faith could not be resisted.

Because of mt. Sinai I got the first pantheon and first religion. Panteon belief: One with nature (4 faith from natural wonders), so I quickly had a tile producing 12 faith per turn. For religion belief I picked Tithe and Pagodas.

Q: How did you get the most out of your advanced start?
A: I think I used the 300 culture points optimally.

Q: How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
A: knowing that I had to cross ocean to discover all city states I researched astronomy first

Q: What were your initial priorities?
A: Gold, happiness and scouting. The first thing Moscow built was a market.

Q: What tech path did you follow and why?
A: First astronomy for being able to cross ocean. Afterwards beelines to scientific theory, plastics and globalization.

Q; What Social Policies did you choose and why?
A: The few test starts that I played seemed to indicate that the optimal social policies were:
Start with unlocking Tradition (for culture and border growth (= more luxuries)), unlocking Rationalism (for 10% extra science and for quicker progress in this tree later), unlocking Patronage and picking Consulates (for quick growth to 20 points base level city state influence).

I thought it was important for the first four free social policies to have immediate benefits.

Continued progress: First finish Patronage, proceed to finishing Rationalism

Q: Any early wars, who started them and what was the result?
A: I think there was a short war between France and America, in which France took an American city. Of little importance in the grand scheme of things.

As for the advanced start, having five trade routes available allowed me to push food at least one food route to each city and still have some left for CS quests. was thus able to fill in specialist as soon as the the building were up.

As for the map, the dense terrain to the north put me off doing much exploring other than a single pikeman. The location of the CS provided me with a nice buffer against Rome and America, which came in handy when both DoW'ed me Turn 273. As far as finding the three civs not on the main continent, I should have sent units swimming in both directions, took a long time to find all the civs and trigger the WC.

My initial priorities was getting gold and production running, each city started market/workshop. Also, food trade routes to get the population up for specialist buildings.

Tech path was Astronomy, for my lone swimming pikeman, then Banking to Scientific Theory to Plastics. I'm about 6 turns from plastics, 5 for Replaceable Parts and finishing Rationalism.

I opened Traditionalism for border expansion, Rationalism for science boost, Patronage/Consulates to get the CS baseline moved up. The rest have gone to rationalism, Scientific Revolution in 5 turns. I took Freedom as my Ideology, as I wanted to stay non-aggressive.

First war I heard of was Rome and America DoW'ing me Turn 273. So far they are stuck trying to cross the CS, who all have level 50+ cities defended by gatling guns, muskets and knights.

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After sending a pike north, east and west, I settled Moscow in place. Next turn seeing Mt. Sinai, my second settler went to settle it. I got the second pantheon, One with Nature, and the first religion. My third city went to the cotton in the north. My fourth to the gems on the other side of the CS. Rome hadn't bothered to settle there, so I took it, knowing it might sour our relations. But, I figured the mountains would make it a tough nut to crack. In the eventual war, Rome never bother to approach the city.

I sent one pike out to swim west as soon as I hit Astronomy, Eventually finding the civs on the other continent. In fact, France was the last civ I found as I never bother to explore the eastern part of my continent

I have Worlds Fair proposed for the first WC, in 2 turns.

Only played ~50 turns but since aiming to finish this in ~100 turns, figured this is the right time & place to post.

Changed my mind concerning overall strategy: since advanced start makes tech & builds so cheap, figured information era peaceful win likely faster than atomic era total war win (which had worked well in TSG 80 ancient start).

So the primary time constraint is tech to info era ASAP: chose liberty for 3rd settler and rational opener for +10% science.

Settled capital one tile NE to optimize salt access. Both remaining settlers went west (away from desert), one settled next to the faith natural wonder, the other on the marble hill... right next to Rome (no risk, this is only emperor difficulty, with 3 pikes to boot). A great city site with 2 unique luxuries (marble & gems), conveniently situated to easily steal a CS then a Roman worker, and leverage city bombardment to crush the responding Roman pike army. Eventually accepted Roman begging to give all their gold & income for peace. Only drawback was a warmonger penalty with America never recovered (and could care less).

Prioritized libraries / univerities / national college / both tower wonders for great scientists. Settled 1st scientist, but this was probably a mistake. Beelined radio to get Order +25% science factories ASAP. Hoped to get astronomy from spying on America & Rome, but only got gunpowder, so crucial observatories and overseas exploration ended up delayed. Other mistake: bought 3 coals from America full price for factories, only to get 7 free coals the next turn from a CS ally

In spite of faith wonder city, only 2nd to pantheon, chose the +1 faith on salt. Religion: +100 gold / religious city, +15% production, improved to +50% spread speed and +15% peacetime food. Built the tripple missionary wonder to spread religion ASAP. Used faith only to purchase great prophets (obviously).

100 turns might turn out a bit tight ...

- How did you get the most out of your advanced start?

I'm not sure I did (get the most out of it). I was able to get 4 cities out quick. P'd off Washington when Novogrd? went up just across the bay from him.

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?

Went to find all the Salt. Was eventually able to get Faith NW for Moscow after founding 3 tiles away. Had to buy it though, never would expand out to it and Mbanza was getting too close to it. Rome and America simul-DOW'ed me. America gave me a 8-pop New York north of their Cap with killer production! What an idiot. I was not even in a good position to take their Cap.

- What were your initial priorities?

Didn't really have a plan. Just seeing what developed. I guess science as usual.

- What tech path did you follow and why?

Astronomy, even without Mountains, for exploration.

- What Social Policies did you choose and why?

Tradition. Liberty to Settler then Worker, then back to Legalism and Monarchy, then Rationalism. Finished Liberty. Order(took 2 Happiness tenets).

- Any early wars, who started them and what was the result?
See above. Later I bribed (Friend)France to DOW America after he planted a city near the lake in between us. A few turns later, I jumped in and razed the new city, reduced Boston NE of Jerusalem, and took it in a peace deal.

QUESTIONS

- How did you get the most out of your advanced start?

Decided on 3 coastal cities early. Only took one inland city because of all the salt. So I split the 4 policies between tradition (wonder) and exploration (production).

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?

Lack of hills / production, so i jumped on exploration to get 3 production to coastal cities.

Buffer CTs between me and rome made me feel safe, might ally them first if he looks at me sideways. Else ill start with cultural CTs.

- What were your initial priorities?

Growth. Science. Exploration

First trade route to stabilize economy (upkeep on buildings) then at least 2 trade routes for internal food. Ill make a scout first to explore the center of the island, and send a couple of pikes to explore the ocean ASAP. I won't chase barbarians for CTs (much), finding other civs seems more important.

- What tech path did you follow and why?

Astronomy to let my starting units find all civs quick, followed with printing press. Ill focus on getting forbidden palace, research techs, and stay on the top of the tree while stealing the bottom.

- What Social Policies did you choose and why?

Tradition for wonder bonus + exploration for production, but it was a mistake. (Wanted hanging gardens, but i didn't know you could not make ancient wonders.)

- Any early wars, who started them and what was the result?

Early on i decided to play peacefully if i find all civs and be the host of the world congress. If an AI grabs it, i will war then.

Ended up findind all civs quicly, so tried to stay out of wars and succeeded. With religion spam i kept my neighbors peaceful early, with bribes i made them war each other later. Almost declared war on napoleon to stop him from killing my state ally, but gifting units to the city state then bribing washington to war napoleon later was enough.



EARLY GAME / FIRST 100 TURNS

I went south, saw that only one spot for city let you go left and right on the sea, so i settled there. It will let my naval units pass through my city, allow trade routes, and it's an amazing food spot with all the fish + river start for trade bonus.

Starting policies : I was looking into going full tradition, but then after some thought i got really tempted by hanging garden. There was a lot of synergy pushing me towards it, it gives +6 food instead of +2 from 3 points into tradition, i had to clear the forests anyway on the river for food, so might as well use the production to make the hanging gardens, and it should only take me about 20 turns, less with chopping forests. So ended up putting 2 points into tradition (aristocracy for the 15% prod to wonders) and 2 points into exploration (+ production to coastal cities). With these i could guarantee getting the hanging gardens, and i plan on doing almost only coastals cities anyway (boosting capital with food trade routes) so it fits nicely into my plans, almost doubling my early cities production is also very nice.

Tech wise i went stright for astronomy to be able to cross oceans and meet everyone as soon as possible.

After my scout finishes i realize i can't build the hanging garden, no ancient and classical wonders for renaissance start... *facepalm* (yes this is my first time with start other than ancient). Oh well, i'll make it still worth it by grabing another wonder, sophia (gives free prophet) i think for a super fast enhanced religion.

I found my second city on the left, buying the horses tile then sinai later when i got enough money.

Religion. For the pantheon, was tempted by growth but i ended up picking god of the sea (+1 production from fishing boats) seeing i have 6 fish in my first 2 cities and i plan to have at least 3 coastal cities. 7th fish + my cities lack hills and production. I found my religion quickly, and enhanced it almost the same turn as founding it using prophet from hagia sophia. (Turn 221.) I picked tithe, 15% growth when at peace, feed the world (shrines and temples give +1 food each) and holy order (cheaper missionaries for early spam).

Turn 227 I met everyone. The turn after i finished printing press. A good way for finding the other continent is sending one of the pikes very early to cross the ocean at the middle ground vertically, you are sure to find it quickly and you can meet everyone fast.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=258583017

At this point i was still on 2 cities. Priority now is founding 2 others and securing all the salt around me so i can sell it and start buying city states.

Much later early world fair, which i manage to grab and pop 2 artists i was keeping for this purpose for a long golden age, culture through the roof

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=258581405

About 100+ turns in (turn 293) i had 4 cities (population 22, 11, 11, 10), 315 science (ahead of everyone), 8 city states allies. Picked authocracy (for achievement, but useful to steal weak techs while researching the big ones ahead) and just proposed authocracy as the world ideology just now to get an extra 2 votes, might have been a mistake i should maybe have placed my religion, but i didn't want to piss off everyone just yet. I can defend just fine, but my //precioussss// sea trade routes are vulnerable. 208 gold per turn already (golden age) :

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=258582797

Good start i feel.