Late Classical Era Tech Tree

Has anybody got ideas for 'Civilization Advances' (i.e., technologies) to help me flesh out the Late Classical Period of the first era of my personal mod? Say, roughly, from 0 A.D. to 450 A.D. or thereabouts. From Augustus to Constantine in Rome, say? Something like that.

All I've got so far is:


Surely more noteworthy things happened during this period of time that would justify inclusion into an epic-scale mod. I don't mind Eurocentric techs, but ones that aren't are at least equally as desireable. Even Afrocentric or Asiocentric stuff would be interesting. It's just that I can't think of anything, and nothing jumps to mind after perusing all my historical atlases and history sites galore.

A few further ideas might be:


And that's pretty much all I've got. So if any of you have any tips, I'm all ears!

Zero
Mathematical Astronomy
Comparative Linguistics & Lexicography
Applied Political & Economic Theory
Industrial Chemistry
Clinical Psychology
Social Welfare (gov't welfare)
Decentralized Bureaucracy
Music Theory & Standardized Notation
Mechanical Engineering & Automata
Standardized Manufacturing

to name just a few from South Asia.

For these kind of things wiki is your friend.

Inventions, discoveries, introductions 0-500 AD.

Codex, the first form of the modern book, appears in the Roman empire
Year 78 — the beginning of the Saka Era used by South Asian calendars.
Bookbinding
Various inventions by Hero of Alexandria, including the steam turbine (aeolipile), vending machine, water organ, and various other water-powered machines.
In 31, the Han Dynasty Chinese engineer and statesman Du Shi (d. 38) from Nanyang invented the first-known hydraulic-powered bellows to heat the blast furnace in smelting cast iron. He used a complex mechanical device that was powered by the rushing current against a waterwheel, a practice that would continue in China.
Although Philo of Byzantium described the saqiya chain pump in the early 2nd century BC, the square-pallet chain pump was innovated in China during this century, mentioned first by the philosopher Wang Chong around 80 AD. Wang Chong also accurately described the water cycle in meteorology, and argued against the mainstream 'radiating influence' theory for solar eclipses, the latter of which was accepted by many, including Zhang Heng.
The Chinese astronomer Liu Xin (d. 23) documented 1080 different stars, amongst other achievements.
Cai Lun of China invents paper (c. 105)
Ptolemy compiles a catalogue of all stars visible to the naked eye. He also compiles three of the most influential books in western history:
the Almagest which becomes the basis for western and Middle Eastern astronomy until the time of Copernicus and Kepler;
the astrological treatise, Tetrabiblos;
and the Geographia
125: Zhang Heng of China and the world's first water-powered armillary sphere
132: Zhang Heng of China invents first seismometer to detect the cardinal direction of earthquakes
A primitive form of glasses were developed for a nearsighted princess in Syria.
The South Pointing Chariot invented by Ma Jun, a wheeled mechanical device that acts as a directional compass
The Stirrup was invented in China, no later than 322[2][3]
Kama Sutra
Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Vaticanus, earliest Christian bibles
Book of Steps, Syriac religious discourses
Horse collar invented in China
Heavy plow in use in Slavic lands
Metal horseshoes become common in Gaul
Anglo-Saxon Futhorc alphabet used in England
Armenian alphabet created by Mesrob Mashtots c. 405

Let's see ...

Christianity.
Foundation of Schola Cantorum for church song (Rome, 350 CE).
Earliest Christian plays (ca. 300 CE).
The Romans learn of soap from the Gauls (!) 50 CE.
Stoicism.
Arch of Titus and Caracalla Baths built in Rome.
Beginnings of Alchemy (ca. 450).
ca. 285 Pappus of Alexandria describes five machines in use: cogwheel, lever, pulley, screw, wedge.
Diophantes of Alexandria writes the first book on algebra (ca. 250)

Slim pickings I'm afraid.

Best,

Oz

Thanks guys, this is great! Although I'll probably have to figure out how "Industrial Chemistry" and "Automata" played a part in Southeast Asia. What were they doing, making factories and robots in 200 CE?

Mithadan said:

Thanks guys, this is great! Although I'll probably have to figure out how "Industrial Chemistry" and "Automata" played a part in Southeast Asia. What were they doing, making factories and robots in 200 CE?

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South, not Southeast. War Machines (ever heard of "Greek Fire"?), Dyes, Metal Plating, Adhesives, ... The automata were not robots but "clockwork" toys (China had them also) or larger things hooked to watermills. And not factories but manufactories (look it up).

Ah, whoops. South Asia. Greek Fire's from there? Manufactories, cool. Reminds me of the Roman fabricae, kinda.

Mithadan said:

Ah, whoops. South Asia. Greek Fire's from there? Manufactories, cool. Reminds me of the Roman fabricae, kinda.

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Greek fire is a name we use for a weaponized substance that was developed multiple times in various places. Just as both Indians & Maya developed notation for 0.

I see, thanks!

Which reminds me. . . I've always thought that the inventions of Hero of Alexandria deserve much greater mention. I've always been fascinated by the spectacle of "modern" inventions popping up in the ancient world & hoped that someone would mod around them -- sort of reverse steampunk, or ancient steampunk, I guess.

Balthasar said:

Which reminds me. . . I've always thought that the inventions of Hero of Alexandria deserve much greater mention. I've always been fascinated by the spectacle of "modern" inventions popping up in the ancient world & hoped that someone would mod around them -- sort of reverse steampunk, or ancient steampunk, I guess.

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Well then check this little OT side conversation out.

I suppose the problem with Heron is that his inventions didn't really have much impact at the time, so that if I were to make some of his discoveries "civilization advances," they would have to be those dreaded "empty" techs.

Hmmm, you mean of course AD 1 to AD 450 ("AD" comes before the date, and there was no year 0)! Constantine was fourth century though, not fifth.

You might have the Mystery Religions; Mithraism; and the rise of Hermeticism, if you're so inclined, not to mention Neoplatonism. Also, such things as Imperial Cult and State Religion. Don't forget Apophatic Mysticism (the Via Negativa), and also Cenobetic Monasticism. And the work of Galen, as well as Ptolemy.

Balthasar said:

Which reminds me. . . I've always thought that the inventions of Hero of Alexandria deserve much greater mention. I've always been fascinated by the spectacle of "modern" inventions popping up in the ancient world & hoped that someone would mod around them -- sort of reverse steampunk, or ancient steampunk, I guess.

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The problem in implementng say, Hero's steam engine as a RR would have been materials science: iron in great quantity and quality; rubber gaskets; etc.

-Oz

Right...there wouldn't have been a year zero, eh? Yes, well, yes. Those Theological developments are just the sort of thing I'm looking for!

Ozymandias said:

The problem in implementng say, Hero's steam engine as a RR would have been materials science: iron in great quantity and quality; rubber gaskets; etc. -Oz

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One would assume they'd find an inventive way around those lil' old problems. You see all the time programs wherein modern engineers simply can't duplicate the engineering feats of the past. Stone rails or trenches, brass or copper boilers - maybe not as efficient, but there's always a workaround.

I don't know, I don't believe metallurgical techniques were advanced enough in antiquity to make practical steam engines. Everyone always goes on about Hero as if he proves that the ancient Romans (or Egyptians, depending on what the argument is about) possessed steam power, but Hero was simply one philosopher who made what was effectively a small toy in which a jet of steam from a boiling kettle span a light wheel around. It didn't work along the same principles as modern steam engines and it couldn't have been used for practical purposes even if it had occurred to anyone to try.

Plotinus said:

I don't know, I don't believe metallurgical techniques were advanced enough in antiquity to make practical steam engines.

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I'm not familiar enough with what type of metals or construction techniques would be needed to build an engine to say with certainty, but the ancient South Indians & Sri Lankans may have been capable of at least producing the metals themselves.

A special steel known as wootz, which contains traces of both titanium & vanadium because of the particular source mine, was produced as early as 300 BCE. This steel is considered superior to anything produced in Europe until the modern era. Knowledge of the metallurgy & manufacturing techniques involved in wootz was lost when the primary ore source was exhausted.

Recent reproductions, both physical & computer modeled, of a particular type of wind-driven furnace used during monsoon season prove that it was capable of temperatures in the 1100 - 1500 C° range. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of metallurgy would know if the combination of this type of furnace & the alloys in wootz would be sufficient for production of metals that could withstand the pressures of a steam engine.

Given the intense trade between Egypt and Rome & the Cheras who ruled the western ports of India, one might posit the export of such metals. If the Alexandrian engineers had access to large quantities of metals whose manufacture the Indians in fact kept a closely guarded secret, and exported only as swords, they may have been able to build engines. Indian legends speak of both self-propelled vehicles & automata that were worthy of battlefield use. Perhaps some of these were steam-powered. Edit: Vedas & shastras (scientific knowledge framed in poetic mnemonics) refer to craft powered by "fire & water".

Edit 2.0: If we allow legendary sources as at least preliminary evidence (think of Troy), there are parts of the Mahabharata that speak of tri-metal alloys, closed-cycle mercury vapor engines, electrically powered vehicles, and engined fueled by coconut oil (bio-diesel?). If Sanskrit has a specific word for mechanical contrivances ("yantra") and compound words describing specific types of such machines, perhaps they actually existed in some form.

Into this debate I submit a wonderful book which I have only just begun to appreciate, and which could certainly alter some tech trees: A Descriptive and Historical Account of Hydraulic and Other Machines by Thomas Ewbank, pub. 1876. So far I've found descriptions of ancient Iron Clad Ships ("The Syracusan" built by Archimedes p. 146), "The Wheel of Fortune" of Egypt, The "Cauldrons of the Lesbians" and, pertinent to this discussion, descriptions of both Stone and Wooden steam boilers (Woodpunk?) (p.470). Descriptions of the internal combustion engine, called 'explosive and vapor engines' in following pages are both interesting and hilarious - Ewbanks generally thinks they will never work efficiently or catch on. He also mentions engines that use distilled alcohol vapor - interesting, given that both alcohol and distilling existed in the Ancient world. BTW, thanks, Blue Monkey, for the link - I've become a solid Steampunk fan.

Balthasar said:

BTW, thanks, Blue Monkey, for the link - I've become a solid Steampunk fan.

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Where did you come across a book written in 1876? University Library? Dover Press Reprint?

If you haven't already, make sure you read Garfinkel's "Celestial Matters" that I linked to. A great little novel about a space expedition by Hellenic engineers & natural philosophers in an alternate reality based on Ptolomaic cosmogony & Aristotelian physics.

Also, track down a copy of Stories of Your Life & Others by Ted Chiang. There's a great story in it about what would have happened if the Tower of Babel had been finished (given the cosmogony of the time).