Advices for my first Deity Game

Hi there,
After a year with some breaks playing Immortal, I decided to finally give Deity a shot
Picked the best generic CIV in my humble opinion - Greece. My reasoning is that as I am not familiar with the level, if everything else fails gettin diplo win with them should be easiest.

Map is Pangea, everything else standart with time victory off (not that it will ever come to that ).

So here is something I am thinking about the last half an hour, and decided to make it a public discussion. The political situation is following:

I have 3x DOF (Persia, India and Bysantium), made em all three recently, Persia being third around 7-8 turns ago. That might be a mistake, as Assyria is gonna attack em pretty soon it seems.
3 CS friends (all 3 close to allies - I religious, 1 cultural, 1 Militaristic)
I have a religion (One with Nature (rare sight with 2 NW ), Pagoda's, Tithe), Persia and India have too.

Policies - I am 14 turns off finishing Tradition. Then I'm probably picking Consulates.
Scouting slowly as the terrain is rather bad, and Dido blocked the way, so I need to proceed by see, but have 6 turns till Philosophy.
Tech - have trapping, iron working and the beelined Philo (without it).

Now for the question. There are 3 possible city locations for my last city (settler will be ready next turn):

1) Slightly west of Panama, where the right scout of Theodora is.

Pro's: - 3 lux (whales + 2 spices), 2 fish, deer, lot of grassland (not watered), coastal
Con's: - Flatland, no river, no hills or other production. Forward settling on Persia

2) South of Corinth, on the hill where my archer is standing.

Pro's: better production: stone, some hills, fish, cattle, spices (that I have 3 of already). Coastal
Con's: doesn't add new lux (I already have 2 cities, that do not have own luxuries ...)
Surrounded by jungle - in this situation thats actually better, as Assyria is relatively close, that can slow em down A LOT. Assur and Nineveh are the bottom 2 of their 3 cities, both are coastal - I am not really sure if they care much for Navy, don't think I've seen em on a coast ever.

3)There is a third option - the hill above the lake in the middle of the road between Persepolis and Athens, but settling there will definitely piss em off, more than if I settle between the 2 CS.

Theoreticly - there is one more - the Gold tile west of Sparta, but that will ask for trouble, and there is no Food in the neighbourhood and no room to expand.

So thats what bothers me, I am leaning towards option 2, as it seems the safest way to go, but I am not very sure how will handle the happiness issues ahead.
I have sold both spices, so need to improve the 3rd one before settling and can build two more circus before it comes the time for colliseums.

Also, I am not sure I will have enough cash to buy 2 libraries, as the production of Corinth is bad at start and it will take forever. So maybe I should buy it there and delay the settling for around 15 turns ?

Any comments and advices are welcomed !

If you think you're going to be able to sell a good soon, buy the library on the coast (instead of waiting 20 turns) and buy the library for settler #4, so you can build your NC immediately-ish after you discover Philosophy.

A turn 100 NC on Deity is asking for trouble. If you won't have the $$ ... I might do what you suggest and wait on the new settlement.

As far as where to settle, I like seeing a pile of jungle for a late settler if you have $$ coming in, so you can buy a University there and start mopping up the science. But lack of a unique lux will hurt.

So I think I'd go west of Panama. It's coastal and you also will have an extra Whales to sell for 240 every 30 turns. I would consider going 5-cities once you get enough allies to handle it happiness-wise, plant it south of corinth.

Oh -- don't worry about advance settling on Darius. He's a softy! As long as he doesn't get taken, this is an extremely good map for you, as he can act as a buffer, and it's extremely unlikely he'll make the first move on you.

If I settle the top spot, I definitely need to place a 5th city on the other, to fill the space, and feel more secure

About the gold issue - meh - I have 3 DOFs. I can borrow that money I guess And I will have more horses to sell soon, so i should be fine. I guess thats the first mistake I did here, wasting 5-6 turns producing Library.

Do you like my city placements btw ? Athens is on rivered hill with 2 spices and furs (I settled on spot), Sparta was a bit of a gamble, as I had to buy the Kilimandjaro before the CS claims it but it worked out, and after that taking Uluru was no brainer in terms of the pantheon, but there is a lot of plain desert around it.

I opted for this scenario, as as expected I founded religion early enough because of the immediate 14 FPT boost without sacrificing food and I picked Pagoda's, so I should have no problem with the happiness after a while.

I'd settle near Panama, but this is a opinion of a Emperor player. I think you may be able to buy those Libraries and build NC before it's too late. In any case with Assyria, your Hoplites can deal a good damage. Will og for a rush against them?

The more I look at it, the more I like the spot
I can actually settle the spices on the right of it, and this way will have acces of an additional fish + I will be able to sell it straight away for the library.
And 9 tiles away is not really forward settling , but who knows ... I think he has way bigger problem than me anyway - first Assyria forward settled him, then they did same to him I can try to make em both gang Dido, that would solve a lot of problems in the near future.

I didn't have the patience to wait for more opinions, so I played it out.
So at T175 we finish Science Theory with 320BPT and reasonably sized cities. Production lacks everywhere especially in the coastals, but slowly getting there.

For the first time I had to plant two GP and pretty soon my religion will be gone the natural way except in the cap. Persia is pressuring hard, but it did its job. 50Faith per GP spent and Swords to Plowshares as enhancer. Had to buy missionary before enhancing because Sparta stopped producing faith and it could become too dangerous too soon

Still friends with Persia, India and Byzantinuim, although Theodora lost its cap long ago.
Dido and Assur attacked Persia, and it didn't work out.

Settling the top city was OK, few turns later a persian settler arrived, so I had to block him, so I buy off the good tiles before he settles

Few more turns the bottom location was already settled - nothing I could do ...

Anyway, things are going good I guess - 100% approval, noone hates me, everyone caught me stealing (3 different civs), now going to Persia (they are tech leader), 5% behind.

Hope Darius is making factories now, so he can ease my life for the Ideologies ...
I will follow my usual path from here - to Radio. Maybe will delay it to see what Darius will pick, as I don't wanna hostile Authocrat around me, when I pick order Odds for Sci Victory are OK I guess.

As far as policies go - full traditon, consulates , rationalism, secularism with more to come.

Don't have many allies, but all of em are friends now, and influence drops by 0.25/0.37 per turn as usual, so at one point when I get my GPT I will start buying em off one by one , like the good old Alex does in my games vs him.

Any comments, how am I doing by the deity standarts ?

I got NC on T91, because it took 15 turns with chopping 2 forests. Education around 117, but since then think I am catching up nicely. Its good that I didn't have to build units. Everything I own is gift from Sofia more or less, otherway with that bad production I'd be long gone ...

That was close I thought that my best friend the whole game Darius will probably win before the first diplo vote, as he completed Stasis Chamber 4 turns before it. Still I fired 4 nukes after his starting two cities, hoping to ruin their production to slow down, as I needed 7-8 more turns for the last part of the ship. So instead of waiting, to see what happens, I purchased nukes instead of the additional 3-4 CS that I needed for the Diplo.

It turned out, that if I had paid close attention, I would notice, that he had one technology unknown to him (Sattelites), so that would not matter at all, lol. He had researched three other useless techs instead ...

I must admit, that Deity is completely different beast compared to Immortal. The AI makes way more rational choices, esp with the science. Maybe that is because of my choice to wait Darius to choose ideology, so I delayed radio by 6-7 turns, and because of that i didn't pick any free perks instead of two, as both he and India went Order (what I was gonna pick anyway, but i didnt want to risk it). This led to around 15/30 turns later Freee thought, Worker's Facilites and rat finisher, and after that instead of being close , at one point I noticed, that I am 10 techs behind him, before I bulbed 5-6 scientists ...

If I had picked Radio, without waiting for it, non of that would happen, and that game could be over long before this action. So lesson learned, will know not to do such next time



Still its possible to win even with pretty bad terrain, low on lux, without iron, uranium, coal and aluminium. I definitely enjoyed it Hope you enjoyed my story with pictures. It seems that noone is willing to comment

P.S. Its interesting to note, that for the 7 turns after the nukes, he's cities got from 4 and 5 pop to 11

Pretty scary that last screenshot...
Personally I would've settled Sparta where Bactra is now, which would've given you a much easier position to fight Persia and it would not have competed with Athens for farmland. (with Uluru you don't need a 2nd NW for good faith income)

Would you really leave such spot? Natural chokepoint with one of the best NW, lux, good production and some food? It could be better for sure - if that CS was not that close, but If I had not claimed it, you can be pretty sure that Darius would pop a city there.

Here is another game (this one looks more like a real deity game).

I crippled Danmark early, got 2 workers from them and captured a settler, that was intending to go next door. After a while, he decided to send another, so I got it too, and netted additional worker, so at T75 I have 5 workers, and the war is going , as he might try sending more.

I broke a promise to not settle near him, so my relations with him are damaged anyway. And he was coveting my lands even before my 2nd city. I dunno, if this has any consequences for the others?

Anyway, here is the tricky part - as its a bit crowded, and Theodora forward settled on me, I still think that I am better off with a 4th city. Problem is, that the possible locations do not look too interesting. It has to be either next to the marble under the two CS or northwest at the edge of the peninsula where my cap is.

I am not sure any of these are viable enough, as the first one has to be on flatland with no defence, and the other would have too few workable non-ocean tiles, and most of em are in my cap range anyway. Still - 2 fishes + 1 atol and a lot of fresh water farmlands are available, despite the hills. I think it can grow to around 20 pop without working ocean tiles, so that should be ok?

What do you think?

Breaking your promise will have consequences with everyone, including those you haven't met yet.

For a 4th city i would consider the coast, since you don't have one and you need it for good trade routes / money. However if your relations are not good with other AIs, staying full inland has its advantages in a military / defense perspective.

I would explore more south before making a decision, but you might not have the time for this, should always send a unit exploring all around the coast of continent. Spot near orange south if there is something else around there, or near lake and river on the right side might be a good 4th city. If you take the lake, it might buy you enough time to settle the 5th on the orange later. And if that one is taken, settling north at the marble and wheat is not horrible either. You'll have to by the wheat before CS takes it.

Nicaea is on coast and flatland, you can take it with CB push also as a 5th or 6th city, and keep that corner to yourself. But leaving it or taking it, i don't think you will be able to be 100% peaceful this game, prepare for a fight and have a minimum military, especially if you keep Nicaea there with 4 cities surrounding it.

If you want to stay peaceful, or at least augment your chances, take a 4th city on the marble and stop there to reduce border pressures. But science victory will be harder on 4 cities only, so you might end up going diplomatic for an early win before things start to heat up around ideology time. If you don't want to delay your ideology like last time for diplomatic reasons, you can pick order, as it is the most often picked by AIs.

Well, currently, I have DOF with Theodora, Pedro and the Morroco guy. I am not sure how that thing with the promises work - I got no negative modifier with anyone except the danish guys, but I am at war with em anyway ...

Staying peaceful is not something I intend to do at all cost, I am pretty sure I have to wipe out Danmark no matter what I do. So I plan on taking Copenhagen at some point for sure, and thats why I do not really want to settle near the Marble, as there is no good hill there. On the coast I can have Observatory, but I am really concerned with the growth there, as I will have to use the tiles of the capital ....

I rarely play with anything different than 4 cities, when I play a peaceful game. SV with 2 observatory cities (one of em cap) is not that hard btw. I am willing to go cultural, but I don't know if I can find a religion, and if I don't it will be a real pain.

I have not scouted much, because I was busy with Danmark. If I had not denied em these two cities, I'd have no chanse. Now they are crippled and not a real treat.

My sole piece of advice is to bribe as many AIs to war with each other as you can. But try to make sure that one AI doesn't become too dominant over the others. I managed to bribe Poland into DoW every civ on the map. Because they're quite well established it does help to keep the AIs fighting each other.

Did some progress here, settled the coast. Cities are growing nicely, stopped the war with Harald not long ago, but expecting troubles from Brazil soon. I kinda hate this treacherous guy. We have DOF now, but I am pretty sure he is faking it.

Everyone hates Indonesia, he got 3 wars going, took a CS too, so that is going to last.
Sadly didn't get religion, the last one was taken the turn I hit 200 faith.
3 of em are deep into the Aestetics tree, not sure if CV is possible, so my plan B is a bomber rush or SV, we'll see. I finished tradition, got consulates, and next follows the rationalism opener.

I am wondering about this island to the west - the place looks simply fantastic - 5 fishes, atol deer, iron, 2 coppers and silver withing the 3 rings + some more copper in the 4th.

This can grow pretty fast, I am just not sure what kind of an impact a late 5th city would have on my science. I think I can grow it fast and get the science stuff, but still not sure what to do. It will bring me a lot of gold for sure - I got DOF with Pedro, Theodora, Dido and the Morroco guy.

It will not need more than one ship to protect, and will insure that no barbs are there to pillage the boats of the other city.

What do you think?

Looks like you found your 5th city spot.

That will make your science victory easier. Make sure to send a food ship. And yes the spot is pretty amazing and you should go grab it before someone elses do. AI has been known to send settlers across the map for spots 3 times worse than that.

You capital is growing a bit slow, but other than that things looks good. Good luck

And oh, don't worry about science... as long as the new city will be able to do about 5-10% of your total science it will be more beneficial to have an extra city. You can even have a 6th for a science victory without worrying, as long as you plan your happiness well.

well, yes, but ... its turn 127. Isn't it a bit late for that? Until I settle, it will be t140 probably

The problem isn't the turn time, the problem with a new city is that you don't have the happiness to sustain it currently nor the gold to help it in the beginning.

A shame to pass such an amazing spot but I fear making it would end up costing you too much.

You can always go for it if you think you can get these 2 things to follow. If you can find a way to ally a mercantile CS and rush buy a lighthouse + aqueduct there, you will have a strong city feeding Lampang.

While 5 fish and deer sound good, it's not that much food (~30); so the city will probably start to stall in its 20s or so unless you want to send a cargo ship to it... it can be passed up but I would probably get circus maximus (and other national wonders you want) up first before I go there.

yeh, that with the happiness will be an issue for sure. I still have not build coliseum and circus maximus in the cap, so that would help a bit. I can ally Singapore easily (they are mercantile) too.

I will give it a try tonight, after all - if I do not experiment with stuff like that, it'd get boring