GOTM 153 Spoiler

A small map and being mongol is somehow tempting to go for conquest. However, with a great SSC-location right next to our starting point (wine, silk(hidden), pheasant/buffalo(hidden), lots of grass and 8 river tiles) and being purple, I chose the science path aiming for landing. Hut luck was great and the game came along nicely.

Until -925 (since that is the closest to -1000 save I have):

-4000 50g from hut
-3900 Karakorum founded, will use gold for s1-settler
-3850 Research Alph
-3400 Alph->Laws; settler produced that heads for the coast, warrior next
-3300 Hong Kong founded
-3150 weeds in hut
-3050 Laws->Burial
-2950 50g from hut
-2750 Discover Persian city of Pasargadae, get burial from them, peace
-2700 Research Monarchy(36)
-2500 Monarchy(miscalculated, was intended for next turn)->Writing, revolution
-2450 Become monarchy; Tientsin founded
-2400 Archer(none) from hut (69,13)
-2200 Nomads (71,7)
-2150 Discover roman(!) Leipzig, peace with Rome; Hanoi founded
-2050 50g from hut

Stats at -2000
pop.: 100k; Cities: 4; techs: 5; gold: 130; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
units: 2 settler, 1 warrior, 1 archer

-1950 Writ.->Currency
-1900 Discover Berlin, peace with germany, they offer mysticism, not now
(Hailed by germans, alliance against Rome offered for 50g, accepted so that we can march through german territory)
-1850 Currency from hut, just realize we have warrior code??; Katmandu founded
-1800 Research trade; discover London, peace with England, they offer riding
-1700 our Archer is trapped in Europe
(roman warrior dies in attack on archer)
(english warrior sneak attacks, dies as well)
-1550 Chabarowsk founded
-1500 get Trade from hut, Sittwe founded
-1450 Research Literacy
-1350 Kuala Lumpur founded
-1300 Nomads from hut
-1250 Lit.->Myst.; Hail Persia hoping for mapmak., get wheel, get myst. from Germany
-1200 Research Mapmaking; peace with England, they offer hbr but obviously don't have mapmak.
-1150 Irkutsk founded
-925 Legion from hut (64,22), thought that was popped long ago by Persians

Stats at -925
pop.: 250k; Cities: 9; techs: 12; gold: 72; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
units: 7 settler, 1 warrior, 1 archer, 2 phalanx, 1 legion, 1 van

Greetings Major,

Seeing the spoiler started spurred me into getting on with this game. When I looked at your post just now I had to smile. I didn't get past the first sentence - conquest would be my choice. I didn't even notice the hidden specials near the start position.

I became a monarchy in the same year as you - 2450 BC. By then I had popped a lot of huts with quite good results. In particular the third one gave nomads which helped move things along nicely. And I had met the Persians - I noted the historical locations comment in the game description and went looking for them. It seemed only natural to ally when they offered 50g as early as 3100 BC.

I was surprised not to make an anticipated discovery the following turn. Puzzled I wondered what mistake I had made. I found I had one more technology than I had realised. I think when the Persians said 50g they actually meant, "50g, or a technology" and I didn't notice when no money came in. I think maybe the same happened in your game with the Germans in 1900 BC.

In my game the Germans did not last very long - the English put them out in 2650 BC.

I discovered Polytheism in 1700 BC, but did not immediately build elephants. I thought I would need to cover the Americas for re-spawns and there was no point in starting anything until I had made some progress on that, and had gotten bigger.

I had my first trade delivery (domestic, offshore) in 1050 BC and was collecting tribute then too, which is why the gold figure is rather high...

1000 BC:
Cities:16; Pop:32; Gold:383g;. Techs:14;
2 Settler, 3 Warrior, 2 Phalanx, 2 Archer, 1 Horse, 1 Chariot, 2 Trireme, 7 vans.
7th in Military Service, 1st in everything else.
Supreme and Excellent.
Have met, and got tribute from: Romans, Egyptians, Persians (allied), English.

I was pretty sure that I was going to try Conquest.
I did notice the hidden specials and settled my second city in the middle.
I also noticed that the International Date line allowed some sharing of those specials.
In my game the Germans were destroyed by the English in 2500 BC.
Hut luck was good. The first 9 huts gave me 6 Archers, 2 Chariots and 1 Horsemen. Hut 10 was an advanced tribe. Hut 11 was weeds.

It might have been interesting to send all of the units to attack the AIs, but instead I used them mostly for exploration and then garrison duty. A couple were disbanded, one to help finish the Size 1 settler.

-4000 Hut -> Archer
-3900 Hut -> Archer, Karakorum founded on river
-3850 Start Alphabet
-3750 Hut -> Archer
-3700 RB 2sh
-3650 Alphabet -> Code of Laws (18)
-3550 Hut -> Chariot
-3500 Find Persepolis
-3450 Meet German unit, Peace
-3350 Disband Archer
-3300 CoL -> Ceremonial Burial, Size 1 Settler built, Trade with Persians BW -> CB, Peace
-3250 Start Monarchy (36), Hut -> Horse (NON), Hut -> Archer (Karak)
-3200 Samarakand founded, I am Supreme
-3100 Hut -> Archer (NON)
-3050 Hut -> Archer (Karak)
-3000 Hut -> Chariot (Karak)

stats at -3000:
pop.: .04; cities: 2; techs: 4, gov: Depostism, gold: 14; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 5 Archers, 1 Horsemen, 2 Chariot
wonders: None
Footprint: 2 Cities in Asia

Romans : No Contact
Zulus: No Contact
Germans: No Embassy, Peace
Egyptians: No Contact
Persians: No Embassy, Peace
English: No Contact

-2800 Meet Romans
-2650 Monarchy -> Currency (50), Monarchy established, Hut -> Advance Tribe -> Bokhara
-2600 Karakorum builds Settler, Meet Egyptians, Peace, 50 Tribute
-2550 Disband Archer in Karakorum, Hut -> Weeds
-2500 Germans destroyed by English
-2400 Meet English at Berlin, Peace, 50 Tribute
-2400 Withdraw 1 unit from Rome, Samarkand builds Settler
-2200 Currency -> Masonry (60), Trade with Persians Monarchy -> Masonry (77), Nishapur founded
-2150 Start Trade, Karakorum builds Settler
-2050 Kashgar founded
-2000 Karakorum Archer disbanded in Samarkand

stats at -2000:
pop.: .11M; cities: 5; techs: 7, gov: Monarchy, gold: 135; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Settler, 3 Archers, 1 Horsemen, 2 Chariot
wonders: None
Footprint: 5 cities in Asia

Romans : No Embassy, Peace
Zulus: No Contact
Germans: Destroyed by English
Egyptians: No Embassy, Peace
Persians: No Embassy, Peace
English: No Embassy, Peace

-1950 Samarkand Settler
-1900 Bokhara Settler
-1850
-1800 Withdraw from Veii, Trade -> Map Making (88)
-1650 Egyptians ask for Alliance against Romans, No
-1600 Tabriz founded
-1500 Nishapur Settler, Karakorum Settler
-1400 Map Making -> Writing (108)
-1300 Bokhara Settler, Aleppo founded
-1250 Trade with Persians Trade -> Math (120), Kabul founded, Ormuz founded (Australia)
-1150 Hut -> Warrior Code(132)
-1100 Kashgar Settler, Writing -> Mysticism
-1000 Karakorum builds first food van


stats at -1000:
pop.: .26M; cities: 9; techs: 12, gov: Monarchy, gold: 216; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 3 Settlers, 1 Warriors, 3 Archers, 1 Horsemen, 2 Chariot, 1 Trireme, 1 Caravan
wonders: None
Footprint: 8 cities in Asia, 1 city in Australia

Romans : No Embassy, Peace
Zulus: No Contact
Germans: Destroyed by English
Egyptians: No Embassy, Peace
Persians: No Embassy, Peace
English: No Embassy, Peace

I posted a summary already.

Looks like all three of us popped the hut, put Karakorum at (2,22) and started on Alphabet. But as usual the games go slightly different ways quite quickly. I benefit from my early nomad (third hut.) But I had to discover CB myself rather than get it from the Persians as haleewud did - if only I had had the courage to swap when they offered in 3600BC maybe I would have been rewarded? What is the chance that the Persians will have CB hidden behind the HBR offer? (I note Major_Advantage also swapped for CB with the Persians but in the next millenium.)

4000- Pop hut: horse. Horse moves next to another hut (known map.)
3950- Hut: 50g. Settler moves E.
3900- Horse moves SW. Found Karakorum (2,22).
3850- Start Alphabet. hut: Nomads - nice. Found city here or move to head of Bay of Bengal as lack of shields here, or maybe even south 6 squares to whales? Decide to move.
3800-
3750-
3700- Nomads found Samarkand (72,26).
3650- Discover Alphabet -> CoL. Hut(64,22): Archers(NON).
3600- Archer finds Persian(1) Persepolis as we expected from the “historical locations.”
Agree peace. They have HBR. No swap.
3550-
3500- Hut(69,13): Chariot(Samarkand).

3450- Meet Roman(5) Warrior. They have Writing. No swap. Peace.
3400- Hut(63,11): 50g. Hut(75,13): 50g.
3350- Discover CoL -> CB. Meet German(3) warrior. They have Pottery. No swap. Peace.
3300- Allow Persians to send our archer home.
3250-
3200-
3150-
3100- Accept 50g from Persians to ally and fight Romans.
3050- Expected discovery missed - how did I miscalculate? Answer the Persians gave us Mapmaking, not 50g. Kara makes settlers. Found Bokhara (4,24).
3000- Give BW to Persians.

Stats. Cities:3; Pop:4; Gold:173g;. Techs:4; Warrior, Phalanx, Archer, Horse, Chariot.
Supreme and Excellent.

Aggressive chasing of huts continues.

2950- Discover CB -> Monarchy
Pop 3 waiting huts in Siberia: Nomads, Currency, Archers(Karakorum.)
2900-
2850- Found Nishapur (68,24).
2800-
2750- Found Kashgar (74,12).
2700-
2650- Germans destroyed by English.
2600- Persians get Masonry from Egyptians.
2550-
2500-

2450- Discover Monarchy -> Trade, Revolution, become Monarchy.
Hut(last one in Siberia): 50g.
2400- Exploring horse finds Roman Veii - we make peace.
2350- Find English(4) Berlin - peace and get 50g. Romans(5) ignore demands.
Ship with settler sails from Bokhara.
Persians get Alphabet from Egyptians.
2300-
2250-
2200-
2150- Found Tabriz (8,34) on land #9.
2100- Hut(Australia): Nomads.
2050- Discover Trade > HBR. Persians have Pasargadae in India. Found Tarwin(4,38).
Swap Trade for HBR with Persians.
2000- Found Kabul (76,14).

Stats.
Cities:8; Pop:9; Gold:97g; Techs:9; 4xSettler, Warrior, Phalanx, 2xArcher, Horse, Chariot, Trireme.
Supreme and Excellent.

ICS continues.

1950- Found Ormuz-Kyoto (11,21) on #8.
1900-
1850- Found Basra (74,30).
1800-
1750- Meet Egyptians(2), take 50g for peace, give trade and currency but no map - no MM?
1700- Discover Polytheism -> Pottery. Give Monarchy to Persians(3).
Give Trade to Romans, get 50g. Get 25g from English.
1650-
1600- We learn where Egyptian Thebes is as horse is withdrawn. 25g from Persians.
1550- Wealth chart: We are first, then Unknown, Romans and then English.
1500- Find Roman Antium. Found Khanbalyk (79,15).
Persians offer Masonry.

1450-
1400-
1350- Found Khorasan (66,20), Shangtu (1,25).
1300- Swap Monarchy, Currency to Romans for Writing, Pottery.
Van, Tarwin-Samarkand, Silver, for 50g.
1250- Start on Mysticism. Just short of discovery.
1200- Discover Mysticism -> Literacy. Found Chennai (68,38).
Van, Tabriz-Persepolis(Persian), Dye, for 88g.
1150-
Persians develop Mysticism - I chose the wrong tech priority between this and Literacy at the start of 1250!
1100- Found Quinsay (76,32).
1050- Discover Literacy -> Philosophy. 50g from Romans. 100g from English. 25g from Egypt.
Van, Tabriz-Karakorum, Beads, for 52g.
1000- Found Kerman (8,12).

Stats.
Cities:16; Pop:32; Gold:383g;. Techs:14;
2 Settler, 3 Warrior, 2 Phalanx, 2 Archer, 1 Horse, 1 Chariot, 2 Trireme, 7 vans.
7th in Military Service, 1st in everything else.
Supreme and Excellent.

Inkerman said:

Looks like all three of us popped the hut, put Karakorum at (2,22)

Click to expand...

My Karakorum was located at (1,23) so that it has access to all 3 specials and one more river. Maybe (2,22) would have been a better choice, since it has the early benefit of a river city and only "loses" the buffalo.

I was realyl hoping for one AI-civ to be eliminated early as happened in your games, so it would respawn in the Americas and allow big trade between my SSC and them. Unfortunately, that did not happen and so SSC-trade either offshore-domestic or onshore-foreign.

Major Advantage said:

I was hoping for one AI-civ to be eliminated early as happened in your games, so it would respawn in the Americas and allow big trade between my SSC and them. Unfortunately, that did not happen and so SSC-trade either offshore-domestic or onshore-foreign.

Click to expand...

Yes, with the SSC at or around the start location and the majority of the Mongol cities on the main continent, being able to export to a thriving civilization in America would be very helpful to the spaceship cause. So no early elimi-nation of a nation = disappointing.

I wonder if anyone will try spaceship with an offshore SSC?

By contrast, (although it is not a big point compared to say the date monarchy is achieved), I was a little disappointed the other way, i.e. that a civ was eliminated early. I was fairly sure where they would re-spawn and I would have preferred to get there first. On unknown maps it is different, as Peaster has noted, early intelligence about the re-spawn area is desirable.

Inkerman said:

I was fairly sure where they would re-spawn.

Click to expand...

So there was no re-spawn in your game?


Next part of my log, during which we expanded further and improved our SSC.

-875 Cease fire with Rome
-825 Krasnojarsk founded
-775 Mapmak.->Republic; get Persian map
-725 Embassy with Persia; Arctic Beach founded
-675 1st van reaches Thebes, peace, maps
-625 Singapore founded
-600 Colossus built in Karakorum, hides(u)>Thebes 54g
-575 Republic->Philo;
-450 Embassy with Rome
-425 Philo->Medicine->Masonry; dye(d)>Rome 120g; peace with Rome, maps, but they still refuse tech-trade
-400 Lhasa founded, intended to be station city, but it is not; hail England, get Masonry (other pottery, IW, HBR)+50g tribute
-375 Research Construction; Tokyo founded
-350 Constr.->Engin.;
-325 hides(u)>London 52g; 2 settlers on their way to America
-300 Werchojansk founded, barb Archer near Artic Beach
(Barb Archer dies in attack)
-275 Chanty Mansisk founded
-250 Revolution
-225 Shakespeare in Karakorum, Republic established; settlers dropped off in America
(German-Egyptian war, we refuse to join, alliance canceled)
-200 Engin.-> IW; Vancouver founded, Legion from hut, IW from Persia
-175 Research Bridge-build.; hides(u)>Leipzig 76g, just realize were the dateline is...
-125 Winnipeg founded
-100 Pyramids built in Hanoi
-75 BB->Sanit.; Hides(u) 94g
-50 get pottery from Rome
+1 HG completed in Karakorum (weird: F6 tells me 4 t/a, shift+t tells me 5, might be because of unrest)

stats at 1 AD
pop.: 1.59M; Cities: 18; techs: 22; gold: 89; Gov.: Rep; wonders: Pyr, HG, Colossus, Shakespeare; TR: 0D/3F
units: 9 settler, 1 warrior, 1 archer, 3 phalanx, 2 legion, 2 boat, 3 van

Inkerman said:

I was fairly sure where they would re-spawn and I would have preferred to get there first.

Click to expand...

Major Advantage said:

So there was no re-spawn in your game?

Click to expand...

Sorry Major, a problem with my use of my native language!

So no, yes there was a re-spawn. Paris must have been founded in North America soon after the Germans were eliminated, before 2000 BC. They were there first, in the sense of winning a race. I would not establish a city in the Americas until 675BC. (I went a bit further south than you did, judging by the city name.)

The French capital was not in a location you or I would have chosen, but it did mean the French civilization was big enough that when the war came I needed a reasonable force - not just scattered units. So I had to work a bit harder / take a bit longer, maybe.

I notice in your log that after discovering republic you wait for some time before a revolution and changing government. Meanwhile you continue to make discoveries at a fast rate. Do you have any comments on choosing when to change?

Inkerman said:

Sorry Major, a problem with my use of my native language!

Click to expand...

I think it was rather a problem of bad reading! Such as skipping the word "where" and neglecting the rest of the sentence since it doesn't make much sense without it!

Inkerman said:

I notice in your log that after discovering republic you wait for some time before a revolution and changing government. Meanwhile you continue to make discoveries at a fast rate. Do you have any comments on choosing when to change?

Click to expand...

The answer is quite simple, it is when I feel I can compensate for the bad aspects of republic (settlers eat twice, no more martial law, shield support, no more tribute, away unhappiness), so it might take some time to be set.
Havinf republic and not using it is not that bad, you can always gift it to the AI and republic AIs are mroe friendly and more productive as research assistant and trade destination

Major Advantage said:

The answer is quite simple, it is when I feel I can compensate for the bad aspects of republic (settlers eat twice, no more martial law, shield support, no more tribute, away unhappiness), so it might take some time to be set.
... you can always gift it to the AI and republic AIs are more friendly and more productive as research assistant and trade destination

Click to expand...

Yes that seems a good way to think about it - change when you know the bad things will be OK to manage. There was one game, not so long ago, when I switched to Republic and then had to switch back to Monarchy because of the food and shield issues.

Here is the next part of my log up to the first settlement in the Americas.

975-
950- Bokhara builds Hanging Gardens.
925- Bokhara celebrates.
900- Found Tanberra (9,39).
875- Age of Philosophy begins in Basra -> Monotheism -> Seafaring.
Persians and Romans having a nice little war.
850- Van, Samarkand-Ormuz_Kyoto, Silk, for 78g.
Persians(3) give 25g. Romans(4) give 100g. Egyptians(2) give 50g. English(5) give 50g.
825-
800-
775-
750- Found Quoth (79,31), Tadelaide (8,44).

725- Bokhara completes MPE. Found Quemona, Kannae.
Land van next to Egyptian Thebes - make peace with Zulus.
Run into Roman Cumae when hoping to be able to found city.

Romans: 4 cities, 13 techs.
Zulus: 2 cities, 6 techs.
French: 1 city, 7 techs.
Egyptians: 1 city, 9 techs.
Persians: 2 cities, 9 techs.
English: 4 cities, 9 techs.
Mongols: Us - 21 cities, 16 techs.

Give French(0) Literacy, Trade and Philosophy to get map - they are in Canada, with barbs about.
We have a trireme with settlers sailing down west coast.

700- Discover Seafaring -> Wheel.
Van, Ormuz_Kyoto-Thebes(Egyptian), Beads, for 152g.
675- Found Nz (14,44), Mexico (28,26).

Our reputation is excellent, but perhaps not for much longer.

The empire continues to prepare for war.

650- Romans withdraw. 50g from English.
Romans start Pyramids.
Pirates land Sri Lanka (adjacent to our city of Chennai.)
625- Found Atlanta. Romans ignore our threats. We have 3 x barracks now.
Phalanx lost in Chennai to the Barbs, fortunately dip just completes.
600- Bribe wounded Barb archer for 61g.
Attack Romans - destroying Antium. Damages reputation.
575- Find Zimbabwe. Raze Cumae, taking Maths. Romans abandon Pyramids.
550-
Egyptians offer 50g to fight English - we accept.
525- Population reaches 1m.
500- Discover Wheel -> Astronomy.
Capture Veii from Romans, taking WC.

Stats.
Cities:27; Pop:1.07m; Gold:146g;. Techs:21;
7 Settler, 3 Warrior, 4 Phalanx, 3 Archer, 1 Horse, 1 Chariot, 13 Crusader, 6 Trireme, 2 Dips, 2 vans.
Wonders: HG and MPE.

Romans: War. 1 city, 14 techs
Zulus: Unco-op. 2 cities, 6 techs
French: Neutral. 2 cities, 10 techs
Egyptians: Worshipful, Allied. 1 city, 9 techs
Persians: Worshipful, Allied. 2 cities, 9 techs
English: War. 4 cities, 10 techs.
Mongols: Supreme and Dishonourable. 27 cities, 21 techs

I just started planning this one and right now my plan is to go for landing. Purple and small world with good terrain is too tempting.

I intend to pop the hut (hoping for a unit) and build the capital at the 3 special site. My next plan is to eliminate Persians if possible. This has two advantages. One is that the respawn will likely be offshore making it a great trading partner particularly since currently there are no rivals offshore. The other is that this will hopefully allow me to keep the rivals off Asia and confined to Europe and Africa.

-4000 Archer from hut. This is great.
-3900 Horseman from hut. Wonderful. Karakorum founded.
-3850 Empty hut.
-3700 peace -> Persian -> Horseback riding.
-3650 50g from hut. This is great; I can use it for size 1 settler which I was not planning on.
-3500 Refused to remove my archer who is fortified on a hill next to Persepolis. Persians declare war.
-3450 Empty hut.
-3350 Size 1 settler produced.
-3300 Horseback riding -> German -> peace, Pottery.
-3200 Samarkand founded.
-3150 Roman warrior runs into my horseman. Bronze, Pottery -> Roman (6) -> Alphabet, Code of Laws. They also have Masonry. -> Ceremonial Burial.
-3000 Persians build a size 1 settler.

Status at -3000
Population: 0.04M; Cities: 2; Techs: 5; Government: Despotism
Gold: 2; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 1 None Archer, 1 None Horseman
Goals: Monarchy, Trade, Conquest of Persians (I could have done this already but I am hoping to do it when I can get a city from them.)
Notes: 5 huts: NoneArcher, None horseman, 50g, 2 empty
Roman: no embassy
Zulu: no contact
German: no embassy
Egypatian: no contact
Persian: no embassy; war with me
English: no contact

-2950 Advanced tribe founds Bokhara at 75,13.
-2850 Horseman from hut.
-2700 Nomad from hut. This has been the best hut luck streak in quite some time. Nishapur founded.
-2650 Ceremonial Burial -> Currency. Persian horseman kills mine. Archer attacks and kills Persian warrior.
-2600 None settler founds Kashgar. Wounded Persian horseman killed and Persepolis razed. They must have established another city. Nomad from hut! So glad I used the previous one to found a city.
-2500 Barbarian horseman from hut kills my None horseman the next turn.
-2250 Currency -> Monarchy. German -> 50g. Monarchy from hut.
-2200 -> Trade. Tabriz founded. Roman -> 50g.
-2100 Revolution started.
-2050 Monarchy established. T3L0S7.
-2000 Aleppo founded. Roman -> 50g

Status at -2000
Population: 0.15M; Cities: 7; Techs: 8; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 36; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 1 None settler, 1 warrior, 1 None Archer, 2 Horseman
Goals: Trade, Conquest of Persians
Roman: no embassy
Zulu: no contact
German: no embassy
Egypatian: no contact
Persian: no embassy; war with me
English: no contact

-1900 Found Pasargadae.
-1850 Persian warrior dies in attack on my archer. Trade -> Mapmaking. Pasargadae taken for 24g and Mysticism! Persian civilization destroyed.
-1600 Trade -> Roman (5) -> Mapmaking. T7L0S3. Kabul founded.
-1550 -> Writing. Roman -> Warrior code for tribute. German -> 0g. Horseman runs into Romans. Monarchy, Currency -> Roman (5) -> maps, Masonry. Ormuz founded.
-1450 Ran into English warrior. Peace, mapmaking, Masonry, Currency -> English (4) -> maps, 50g. York is northeast of the Caspian! I have to bribe it away at some point.
-1400 Basra founded.
-1350 Khanbalyk founded.
-1300 Monarchy, Trade, Mapmaking -> German -> maps, 50g.
-1250 Writing -> Literacy. Hanging Gardens built in capital which celebrates. Hanging Gardens was chosen over Colossus (pre Republic the celebration effect gives the same number of extra arrows) and Marco (already know the location of 5 of 6 rivals and has exchanged techs and maps with 3 of them). First boat built. Roman, English -> 0g.
-1100 Roman -> 25g, English -> 0g. Philippines founded as the first offshore city.
-1000 German -> 0g.

Status at -1000
Population: 0.44M; Cities: 13; Techs: 14; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 35; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders: Hanging Gardens
Units: 4 settlers (1 None), 2 warriors, 1 None Archer, 2 Horseman, 2 triremes, 1 diplomat, 2 vans
Goals: Offshore settlement, offshore huts, Asian expansion, Colossus, Marco, bribing York
Footprint: capital, 5 cities on Asian east coast from Indonesia to Korea, 2 in India, 4 in north central Asia, 1 in Philippines
Roman: no embassy
Zulu: no contact
German: no embassy
Egypatian: no contact
Persian: Destroyed by me
cyan?: no contact
English: no embassy

Major Advantage said:

when I feel I can compensate for the bad aspects of republic (settlers eat twice, no more martial law, shield support, no more tribute, away unhappiness), so it might take some time to be set.

Click to expand...

Indeed. I do the same thing. I calculate how much I lose in shields and food and compare that with how much I gain in arrows minus how many of those arrows have to go towards crowd control. (Using the rough formula of 1 shield = 1 food = 2 arrows.) I will not switch when there is no gain. When there is opportunity for tribute the gain has to be more; however, there is no good way to quantify that. I do not worry about away unhappiness since any city's second unit can often be rehomed to another and I usually have quite a bit more cities than away units.

Another factor is whether I am at active (as opposed to nominal) war or not. Obviously you do not want to switch before the war is conclusive.

Another factor is deliveries. Obviously they are a lot more lucrative in a republic. However, at times you can simulate the effect by making the involved cities celebrate.

Sometimes this has meant a direct jump from Monarchy to Democracy.

-0950 Shangtu founded. Archer from Alaskan hut. First infrastructure built: Marketplace in Karakorum. Roman -> 25g, English -> 0g.
-0925 German -> 0g. Kyoto founded. Archer runs into American horseman in Alaska. They demand writing and declare war!
-0900 Stupid American horseman attacks my archer on mountain making it vet. York wants 183g to revolt! Seafaring from polar hut.
-0875 German -> 50g.
-0850 8 barbarian horsemen from Australian hut. My horseman kills one. Roman -> 50g, English -> 25g. York which is now down to size 2 from 3 due to attacks wants 120g. York bribed rather than subverted. Got 8g and a Phalanx.
-0825 Barbarians kill my horseman. Roman archer backs away from York. None archer from northern Canadian hut.
-0800 Literacy -> Philosophy. Feudalism from hut. This is awful.
-0775 Gems from Tabriz to Kyoto for 72 establishes the first (domestic) trade route. German -> 0g.
-0750 Quinsay founded near old Persepolis. Just discovered that Romans have built Antium where Persepolis used to be. Kerman founded at the southern tip of India. Nomad from American hut on Rockies. T3L0S7
-0700 Marco built. Rivals have no tech that I do not already posses. Nomad from Greenland hut.
Peace, Literacy, Trade -> Egyptian (4) -> maps, 50g.
Peace, Literacy, Mysticism -> Zulu (1) -> maps, 50g.
Literacy -> Roman (5) -> 0g
Peace, Literacy, Trade, Seafaring, Monarchy, Mapmaking -> American(0) -> maps
-0675 Romans raze Berlin. Philosophy -> Polytheism -> Medicine. Khorasan founded.
-0650 Kazan and Thailand founded. Philosophy -> Roman -> Iron Working, 25g. Philosophy -> American -> 0g.
-0625 Philosophy -> Zulu, Egyptian -> 0g.
-0575 Antium subverted for 2x96g. It is too close for comfort. Got 6g and a Phalanx. Brisbane founded.
-0525 Colossus built in capital. Nomad builds Vancouver on top of wine hill being mined by the other nomad in America.
-0500 Vladivostok founded. Egyptian, Zulu -> 25g.

Status at -0500
Population: 1.0M; Cities: 25; Techs: 20; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 17; Cost: 1; Trade routes: 2D0F;
Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Marco
Units: 10 settlers (2 None), 8 defenders, 3 Archers (2 None), 1 Horseman, 3 triremes, 1 diplomat, 6 vans
Goals: Expansion in Japan, Australia, North America; last remaining hut; Mono, Bridge building, Michelangelo, Republic
Notes: Americans are in south and central America.
Footprint: 21 cities in Asia; 1 in each of Philippines, Japan, Australia, north America.
Roman: 2 cities, 18 techs; war with German and English
Zulu: 1 cities, 10 techs; war with Egyptians
German: 1 cities, 11 techs; war with Romans
Egypatian: 2 cities, 12 techs; war with Zulu
Persian: Destroyed by me
American: 2 cities, 13 techs;
English: 1 cities, 13 techs; war with Romans

-0475 Medicine -> Mono.
-0450 Sapporo founded. Writing -> American -> 0g. English, Roman, German -> 0g.
-0425 Beads from Philippines to Karakorum for 100.
-0400 Nomad from polar hut.
-0375 Romans declare war rather than pay tribute. Zulu -> 25g, Egyptian -> 50g; others ignore
-0350 Mono -> Republic. English demand war over my tribute demand. German, American -> 0g. Domestic Copper for 52.
-0325 Offshore Hides for 64. T6L0S4 in prep for discovering Republic in -225.
-0275 Romans put a couple of units close to Antium and Quinsay. Polytheism -> Roman -> peace.
-0250 Romans go to war with Egyptians. Zulu -> 50g; others ignore. T4L0S6
-0225 Republic -> Theology. Republic established. Perth founded. T2L6S2
-0200 Michelangelo built. Domestic deliveries for 76, 96. T3L3S4
-0150 Republic to all rivals. Karakorum reaches size 8. Domestic deliveries for 80. T3L4S3
-0125 Theology -> Banking. Shakespeare built in Karakorum. Offshore salt to Leipzig for 264 establishes the first foreign trade route. Alaska founded.
-0100 Domestic deliveries for 216. Papua founded. T2L5S3
-0075 Banking -> Construction. New Zealand founded.
-0050 Hides to Washington for 328. T2L4S4
-0025 Construction -> Bridge Building. Hides to Washington for 398. Domestic deliveries for 64.
+0001 Bridge Building -> Chivalry. Domestic deliveries for 84, 186, 124, 56, 60. T3L5S2

Status at +0001
Population: 6.5M; Cities: 30; Techs: 27; Government: Republic
Gold: 9; Cost: 14; Trade routes: 28D3F;
Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Marco, Michelangelo, Shakespeare
Units: 16 settlers (3 None), 3 defenders, 3 Archers (2 None), 4 triremes, 3 diplomats, 13 vans
Goals: One more city in Australia; expansion in North America; Bach (2 turns); Sanitation; Democracy
Notes: Americans have Math and are unwilling to trade despite being enthusiastic and not building any wonders.
Footprint: 21 cities in Asia; 1 in each of Philippines and New Zealand; 2 in each of Japan and north America; 3 in Australia.
Roman: 2 cities, 22 techs; war with German, Egyptians, and English
Zulu: 1 cities, 13 techs; war with Egyptians
German: 1 cities, 13 techs; war with Romans
Egypatian: 2 cities, 14 techs; war with Romans and Zulu
Persian: Destroyed by me
American: 2 cities, 19 techs;
English: 1 cities, 15 techs; war with Romans

+0020 Chivalry -> Wheel. Domestic deliveries for 76. T4L4S2
+0040 Bach built. Domestic deliveries for 92. Adelaide founded.
+0060 Accepted Zulu offer of 50g to ally with them against Egyptians not for the 50g but because they have Wheel and I have not been able to get them above uncooperative to trade for it. Looks like they gave it to me along with the 50g without me even asking for it. -> Engineering. Gifted Zulu to Cordial. Reached cease fire with Egyptians. T1L4S5
+0080 Engineering -> Sanitation. Silk to English for 180. T3L4S3
+0100 Silk to Egyptians for 198. Yemen founded.
+0120 Egyptians pull back from Yemen. Sanitation -> Invention. Salt to NY for 296. Domestic deliveries for 176. Sanitation -> Egyptian -> peace. Sanitation -> American -> Math. Sanitation to all other rivals for maps and goodwill.
+0140 Refused German offer of 50g to ally against Romans.
+0160 Invention -> Astronomy. Invention -> American -> University. Wine to Germans for 37. Domestic deliveries for 69, 50.
+0180 Domestic deliveries for 130.
+0200 Astronomy -> Democracy. Domestic deliveries for 66. T5L4S1
+0220 Barbarian legion lands near undefended Vladivostok. Silk to Rome for 108. Domestic deliveries for 100.
+0240 Barbarians take Vladivostok. I lose a Hides van on its way to Washington. Copernicus built.
+0260 Beads to Germans for 80. Worshipful Egyptians declare war rather than move troops.
+0280 King Richard's built.
+0300 Democracy -> Chemistry. English -> 100g, American, Zulu, Roman -> 0g, German -> 25g. Democracy established. Silk to Romans for 78. T6L3S1
+0320 Stupid Egyptians pillage their own mine which just happened to be in my city's radius as well. Dye to barbarian Vladivostok for 32. Domestic deliveries for 116. Deliveries for to Rome for 54, 100. Deliveries to Washington for 244, 124. Vladivostok bribed back for 156g; got a legion. T2L3S5
+0340 Chemistry -> Theory of Gravity. Domestic deliveries for 93.
+0360 Theory of Gravity -> Economics. Domestic deliveries for 140, 72.
+0380 Economics -> Gunpowder. Hides to Leipzig for 38.
+0400 Domestic deliveries for 108, 45. Egyptian warrior killed.
+0420 Egyptians attack Yemen and kill a Phalanx. Gunpowder -> Explosives. Domestic deliveries for 192. Egyptian Phalanx bribed for 136g.
+0440 Wounded Egyptian chariot manages to kill former Egyptian Phalanx defending Yemen, razing it in the process. Explosives -> Metallurgy.
+0460 Metallurgy -> Conscription. Domestic deliveries for 132, 52.
+0480 Leo built. Conscription -> Leadership. Dye to Washington for 200. Domestic Gems for 378.
+0500 Overconfident Egyptian chariot attacks rifleman and finally dies. Leadership -> Tactics. Bombay founded.

Status at +500
Population: 24M; Cities: 32; Techs: 44; Government: Democracy
Gold: 76; Cost: 109; Trade routes: 63D13F;
Ancient Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus
Medieval Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Copernicus, King Richard's
Industrial Wonders: Bach, Leo
Units: 22 engineers (3 None), 7 Riflemen (2 None), 1 Dragoon, 7 triremes, 4 diplomats, 17 vans
Goals: Rebuilding Yemen; Conquering Thebes; expansion in North America; Magellan, Newton
Footprint: 22 cities in Asia; 1 in each of Philippines and New Zealand; 2 in each of Japan and north America; 4 in Australia.
Roman: 2 cities, 29 techs; war with Zulu and English
Zulu: 1 cities, 24 techs; war with Romans and Egyptians
German: 1 cities, 19 techs;
Egyptian: 2 cities, 28 techs; war with Zulu, and I
Persian: Destroyed by me
American: 3 cities, 27 techs;
English: 1 cities, 19 techs; war with Romans

Major, Inkerman, haleewud any updates?

Anyone else playing?

Ali Ardavan said:

Major, Inkerman, haleewud any updates?

Anyone else playing?

Click to expand...

Hi Ali,
I finished off my early conquest in the years following the log date of my previous post. There wasn't anything noteworthy especially given how much chat I had with Peaster and Tim about EC in the previous game. More log would just have discovered the end date, which we tend not to do here of course. Also I realised I had got out of sync with your playing, and there few enough of us nowadays! Well done for cracking on.
Inkerman