Is "our mutual military assistance" diplomatic modifier too weak?

marioflag · Apr 21, 2006

Don't you think that having only +1 or +2 (if i remember +2 is when wars are prolonged) a bit too weak as modifier?
If the enemy of my enemy is my friend i think that at least the modifier should have a +4 or +6, also if you have really negative relations with this civ the mutual interest of civs should bring them to collaboration. Instead of it is happened often that me and another civ were involved in a war against the same enemy and after some turns i get the other civ that declares war on me!!!

cairo140 · Apr 21, 2006

Did Russia and America establish a lasting economic bond right after WWII? Nuff said.

Yarmoss · Apr 21, 2006

cairo140 said:
Did Russia and America establish a lasting economic bond right after WWII? Nuff said.

On the other hand, America and Britain following WW2... :crazyeye:

Something greater then +2 would be nice.

Eternalsteelfan · Apr 21, 2006

cairo140 said:
Did Russia and America establish a lasting economic bond right after WWII? Nuff said.

I'll play the Devill's Advocate. If the USSR wasn't an ally in WW2 would the Cold War have been so cold? Would Russia now be a limited member of NATO?

Baru · Apr 22, 2006

What about the US and Japan. To the people in charge (both at that time) NEVER FORGIVABLE.

But we are allies now.

The Tyrant · Apr 22, 2006

The maximum modifier for mutual military struggle is at least +5. I see +5 quite often. It does require a lot of turns at war against a common enemy, though. Also, although I can't guarantee this, it seems to me as if the aggressive civs will increase the bonus quicker than non-aggressive civs. If you have Permanent Alliances checked, choose an aggressive civ to make friends with and help them in every war they get involved with. They'll absolutely love you.

Olleus · Apr 22, 2006

The size of the bonus does depend on how long you've been at war, but how much you're both commited to it. If they are at war and ask you to join, and you do but then sit on your ass all day you won't get a big bonus, and the same thing happens if you ask them to join and they don't fight.

Baru · Apr 22, 2006

Lord Olleus said:
The size of the bonus does depend on how long you've been at war, but how much you're both commited to it. If they are at war and ask you to join, and you do but then sit on your ass all day you won't get a big bonus, and the same thing happens if you ask them to join and they don't fight.

Does this apply to the AI also? I sometimes ask the (AI) to go to war and they do just that, would it apply to other AIs?. It usually helps but not much.

JustAnotherUser · Apr 22, 2006

Yarmoss said:
On the other hand, America and Britain following WW2...

Something greater then +2 would be nice.

America and britain shared most of the same civics, too. the huge diplomacy modifier come from there, IMHO

Baru said:
What about the US and Japan. To the people in charge (both at that time) NEVER FORGIVABLE.

But we are allies now.

It don't apply to the current discussion, AFAIK USA and Japan were never allied in a war, what happened is that when they lose the war they were forced to change civics, and sharing the same civics give a huge diplomatic bonus, plus the help the usa give them after the war, the open borders and the trade did the rest..

Alpha Draconis1 · Apr 22, 2006

JustAnotherUser said:
America and britain shared most of the same civics, too. the huge diplomacy modifier come from there, IMHO

It don't apply to the current discussion, AFAIK USA and Japan were never allied in a war, what happened is that when they lose the war they were forced to change civics, and sharing the same civics give a huge diplomatic bonus, plus the help the usa give them after the war, the open borders and the trade did the rest..

Good gosh golly gracious! I never thought I'd see real world history being defined in Civ4 terms.

Olleus · Apr 22, 2006

Really?
I've found that I do that all the time. Quite pathetic of me really.

JustAnotherUser · Apr 23, 2006

Alpha Draconis1 said:
Good gosh golly gracious! I never thought I'd see real world history being defined in Civ4 terms.

I know, with Civ I it was easier.

But that is a problem of the game. I'd like if they have done civ 4 to be more a (pseudo)history simulator and less of a wargame/RTS like they did.

No, seriously , i'd love to be able to look at any moment in history and say "this in Civ 4 would be made with..." but this is not always possible with vanilla Civ, I wonder if it would be with some Mod.

joethreeblah · Apr 23, 2006

Does the AI know when you buy someone into a war? I've seen the "-? You brought a war ally in against us."

If they do know, then we should also know when someone is bought into a war against us.

cymru_man · Apr 24, 2006

The Tyrant said:
The maximum modifier for mutual military struggle is at least +5. I see +5 quite often. It does require a lot of turns at war against a common enemy, though. Also, although I can't guarantee this, it seems to me as if the aggressive civs will increase the bonus quicker than non-aggressive civs. If you have Permanent Alliances checked, choose an aggressive civ to make friends with and help them in every war they get involved with. They'll absolutely love you!

This is true - the aggressive Civs (as a rule) value your joining in their wars much more highly than others. A bit like with some Civs, the max religious bonus (or penalty) you can get is +2 (or -2), as they attach little importance to religion, the max bonus for friendly military engagement is +2 with some pacifist Civs, but at least 5 maybe 6/7 with other aggressive Civs.

Sidewinder00Q · Apr 24, 2006

I've seen higher than +2 many a times, the most recent was on between me (Louis XIV) and Isabella. Alexander declares was on her, while I'm beating on the Malinese. I finish the Malinese only to cry because they died too quickly, and now I have dozens of Cavalry units that are eating up my income. So, since Isabella and I have been close friends since we met. I declare war on Alexander and take all but two of his cities. She didn't do much of anything, she was losing, and I actually had to take back one of hers. That might be how I got to +4 with her. Also I love the ability to tell them where to attack, what to research (after a Permanant Alliance), and to be able to give her back her city with just one click of a button. (I know the last one is new with 1.61, im not sure about the other two)

Armorydave · Apr 24, 2006

I think you get a plus one to the modifier for every city you sack also. I am certain that I have seen it as high as +5 and possibly even higher.

Is "our mutual military assistance" diplomatic modifier too weak?

marioflag

History Addict

cairo140

2+2=5

Yarmoss

Chieftain

Eternalsteelfan

Prince

Baru

Beer Drinker

The Tyrant

Prince

Olleus

Deity

Baru

Beer Drinker

JustAnotherUser

Warlord

Alpha Draconis1

Chieftain

Olleus

Deity

JustAnotherUser

Warlord

joethreeblah

King

cymru_man

Prince

Sidewinder00Q

Warlord

Armorydave

Prince

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