FfH2 0.30 Changelog

rusty217 · Dec 15, 2007

it-ogo said:
Demons can breed in the same way as biological species?!!

How did you think they reproduced then?

Or would it be better not knowing?

Somberjay · Dec 15, 2007

Wow, so many additions and changes that it's going to be like playing FFH for the first time again * rubs hands gleefully* I can't wait!! Huge thanks to you guys!

Kael · Dec 15, 2007

kenken244 said:
I don't see any mention of the wilderness or espionage mechanics in the changelog... and those were the things I was looking forward to the most in shadow!

Yeah this is only the first version of "Shadow". There is definitly more to come.

onedreamer · Dec 15, 2007

Hmm, well a bit disappointed by not seeing fixes for the AC increase problem, especially the fact that razing an AV city increases the counter more than decreasing it.

Kael said:
11. Hidden Nationality units can't capture units or cities.

This kinda makes Svartalfar World Spell a mere threat rather than a real power...

it-ogo · Dec 15, 2007

rusty217 said:
How did you think they reproduced then?

Or would it be better not knowing?

AFAIK in Christian tradition all demons are fallen angels which are direct product of Creator's will. They are immortal and unreproductable.

DeaExMachina · Dec 15, 2007

it-ogo said:
AFAIK in Christian tradition all demons are fallen angels which are direct product of Creator's will. They are immortal and unreproductable.

FfH is D&D based however, in which case true demons do breed (often in rather horrid ways) though the lesser demons are able to created from larva the souls of the damned if they just aren't consumed in some infernal ritual or traded around as currency.

rusty217 · Dec 15, 2007

onedreamer said:
Hmm, well a bit disappointed by not seeing fixes for the AC increase problem, especially the fact that razing an AV city increases the counter more than decreasing it.

Actually that was fixed....

Balance Changes:

16. Razing a city with an AC razing religion (the Ashen Veil) won't trigger a population raze AC penalty.

it-ogo said:
AFAIK in Christian tradition all demons are fallen angels which are direct product of Creator's will. They are immortal and unreproductable.

Oh... well never knew that.
Well demons in FFH can reproduce like humans etc, i think this was shown in Mardero's pedia entry....

Nikis-Knight · Dec 15, 2007

AFAIK in Christian tradition all demons are fallen angels which are direct product of Creator's will. They are immortal and unreproductable.

But there's always speculation about that wierd bit concerning the Nephilim in predeluvian times.

zxcvbnm · Dec 15, 2007

rusty217 said:
How did you think they reproduced then?

Or would it be better not knowing?

it-ogo said:
AFAIK in Christian tradition all demons are fallen angels which are direct product of Creator's will. They are immortal and unreproductable.

Nikis-Knight said:
But there's always speculation about that wierd bit concerning the Nephilim in predeluvian times.

I know Nephilim as cat-men only but in FfH:

Kael said:
There are 2 kinds of demons. The most powerful were lesser angels in the service of the 8 angels/gods that fell. The less powerful were once mortal's whose souls have become corrupted. From the lowest Mares, to Imps (mages who have traded their soul for power), to the Sect of Flies (false prophets), to the Ruhin (betrayers).

To give you some indication of the power level the Balor are the weakest of the "true" demons (those that were never mortal).

Obviously the formerly mortal demons could reproduce when alive but this doesn't apply to higher demons, which is clear in that case. But I don't agree in "better not knowing". I wanna know it all!

(approriate post number(616) lol)

xanaqui42 · Dec 15, 2007

Kael said:
4. Rangers can't move impassable anymore.

I may have to think about building ships occasionally.

Kael said:
51. Shock II, Formation II and Cover II reduced from +80% vs their given unitcombat to +40% (Nikis-Knight).

Good.

Rex rgis of Ter · Dec 15, 2007

So when will espionage be added?

Ulsoro · Dec 15, 2007

Looks fantastic! So many changes that its hard to even imagine what a game of shadow will be like. One thing that I don't remember hearing about is:

Kael said:
103. Added the Settlement mechanic.

171. Added the Promote Settlement ability (to transform a settlement to a city).

How will settlements work? Will a settler now create a settlement that has to grow up to a city over time, like Master of Magic (unless my ancient memories of the game are wrong). Will it instantly 'grow up' into a real city from the spell? Will a settlement just be an outpost used to grab resources without the bother of a full city? :crazyeye:

I'm sure I'll figure it out in about 12 hours when Shadow is released, but for now all I have is curiosity. :goodjob:

Broken Hawk · Dec 15, 2007

MagisterCultuum said:
I still don't like the name Gibbon Goetia. Change it back to Kael Coalbane, or, better yet, Tibbar Etihw. I think thats what I'll rename him.

How do you do that? I'm programming challenged. I'm also changing the name of Sandalphon. If the idea was to use the name of an archangel, I think a better one could have been chosen.

Kael Coalbane and Gabriel...maybe.

rusty217 · Dec 15, 2007

Ulsoro said:
Looks fantastic! So many changes that its hard to even imagine what a game of shadow will be like. One thing that I don't remember hearing about is:

How will settlements work? Will a settler now create a settlement that has to grow up to a city over time, like Master of Magic (unless my ancient memories of the game are wrong). Will it instantly 'grow up' into a real city from the spell? Will a settlement just be an outpost used to grab resources without the bother of a full city?

I'm sure I'll figure it out in about 12 hours when Shadow is released, but for now all I have is curiosity.

This is for the sprawling trait which is kuriotates only,

Its becuase they can only have a limit of cities depending on map size its about 2-5, so the rest are settlements, the settlements can only be promoted to standard cities if there is still enough space for an additional city.

Broken Hawk said:
How do you do that? I'm programming challenged. I'm also changing the name of Sandalphon. If the idea was to use the name of an archangel, I think a better one could have been chosen.

Kael Coalbane and Gabriel...maybe.

To change the names.....
I've posted it in this thread already.. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=253926&page=3

but in short just go to the mod folder then assets then xml then text then open the only file in there and change all of the references of the name to what you want to change it too.

Although you should leave all of the names in BLOCK CAPITALS how they are and only change the standard appearence one.

Ulsoro · Dec 15, 2007

rusty217 said:
This is for the sprawling trait which is kuriotates only,

Its becuase they can only have a limit of cities depending on map size its about 2-5, so the rest are settlements, the settlements can only be promoted to standard cities if there is still enough space for an additional city.

Oh yeah. Doh! Shows how often I play the Kuriotates. :lol:

Thanks for clearing it up.

hossam · Dec 15, 2007

does reading the infernal grimoire have to be read by a mage or can any body read it? also does it cast a random spell from all spell levels because i think it should only be spells that require channeling 3.

Xuenay · Dec 15, 2007

hossam said:
also does it cast a random spell from all spell levels because i think it should only be spells that require channeling 3.

Kael said:

Code:

def spellReadTheGrimoire(caster):
	iRnd = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(100, "Read the Grimoire")
	if iRnd < 10:
		caster.cast(gc.getInfoTypeForString('SPELL_SUMMON_IMP'))
	if iRnd >= 10 and iRnd < 20:
		caster.cast(gc.getInfoTypeForString('SPELL_SUMMON_SPECTRE'))
	if iRnd >= 20 and iRnd < 30:
		caster.cast(gc.getInfoTypeForString('SPELL_BURNING_BLOOD_SELF'))
	if iRnd >= 30 and iRnd < 40:
		caster.cast(gc.getInfoTypeForString('SPELL_WITHER'))
	if iRnd >= 40 and iRnd < 50:
		caster.cast(gc.getInfoTypeForString('SPELL_CONTAGION'))
	if iRnd >= 50 and iRnd < 60:
		caster.cast(gc.getInfoTypeForString('SPELL_DEFILE'))
	if iRnd >= 60 and iRnd < 70:
		caster.cast(gc.getInfoTypeForString('SPELL_SUMMON_PIT_BEAST'))
	if iRnd >= 70 and iRnd < 80:
		caster.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_UNHOLY_TAINT'), True)
	if iRnd >= 80 and iRnd < 90:
		caster.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_DEMON'), True)
	if iRnd >= 90:
		caster.kill(True, 0)

Those are the spells that the Infernal Grimoire casts, unless they've been changed since that.

White Elk · Dec 15, 2007

Whohohoohoho! Just one more day!! The changes sound great. Thanks team
for adding an extra element of enjoyment in my life via this most awesome mod!!!

25. Added a block to keep the AI from disbanding heroes (or any unit that doesn't require military support).

Has (or will) anything be done to improve the culling logic which the AI uses to disband units? I've seen it make frequent bad decisions with this. The Avatar event being one of the most common instances. And in a recent scenario I gave the barbarians three cities and some advanced units. In each of the cities I gave them Courthouses, Markets, etc in order to help them pay the support costs. It wasn't enough though for they disbanded all three of the Dragons, Pitbeasts, and Ogre Warchiefs. But they left weaker units and built Axemen and Archers!?! And in one game they disbanded level 6 Hill Giants but built the Pact of the Nillhorn and kept their level 1 Larry, Moe, and Curly.

Do promotions figure into their culling decisions? And do T3 and T4 units cost more in support than tiers 1 & 2? If so is there a check for the AI to 'decide' whether its worth paying the extra support on a unit which might be worth more than a band of weaker units? And do the barbarians pay extra support for units not within a city border? If so then they should consider disbanding those units before disbanding more advanced units fortified within their cities. But this would lead to there being less barbarian units in the wildlands. Which leads me to think that the barbarians should have significantly decreased unit support. Or perhaps none at all. To balance such decreased support costs, maybe their tech rate could be decreased further, or something else? I wouldn't want there to be less barbarians in the world, but I also don't want the barbs to make themself weak by disbanding powerful units they fortify in cities. I don't know the mechanics involved in barbarian support costs and culling decisions, but something definitely seems amiss.

Is it possible to give a unit an ability which decreases unit support costs?
Could the Avatar and a few select barb units be given this ability?

Kael · Dec 15, 2007

No, its all base Civ4 code. Basically the only change so far it to keep it from ever disbanding a unit that doesnt have an upkeep cost (and to keep any world units from having an upkeep cost).

White Elk · Dec 15, 2007

For the purpose of scenario building could you add a world unit promotion
which removes the upkeep cost, but doesn't add the Heros xp gain?

FfH2 0.30 Changelog

Veil Fanatic

Chieftain

Deity

Dragon

Hedgehog

Warlord

Veil Fanatic

Deity

The Nobody

King

Me I'm a Creator

Chieftain

Emperor

Veil Fanatic

Chieftain

Deity

Prince

99 > 1

Deity

99 > 1

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