The Sinister Scheme of Dr. Fu Manchu

After I posted this and thought about it, I realised that that path would be better. If we get Oracle, which I still think is a really long shot, then expensive tech trade for IW will work nicely. As for settling, FR, knock yourself out. I have a weird battle seeing BFCs without BUG dotmaps so I'm sorry for that.

Thanks, W, knocked out! I don't know the meaning of it other than in boxing context, but will assume you mean "your call". Anything about the rush, oh, I forgot you're a warmonger, no need to ask except for the preferable unit, maybe?!
 
when we're at it protective LB's and CB's make for very good rush units ;-). For reference you can search some videos from Chris (AbsoluteZero) on YT. He did both on deity.

And from my latest experience on Monarch the AI's don't get Feud until mid AD's. Soooo :) :)

OK, sounds fascinating, except that it brings a third potential unit to rush with...Maybe everyone of us organizes a rush with her / his favorite unit?! ... just kidding:lol:.

Any advise on the exact order of the tech research? After getting the Oracle tech, I mean?
 
OK, sounds fascinating, except that it brings a third potential unit to rush with...Maybe everyone of us organizes a rush with her / his favorite unit?! ... just kidding:lol:.

Any advise on the exact order of the tech research? After getting the Oracle tech, I mean?

I think that once we have alpha, we should do what we can to get IW. Hopefully we have iron nearby so we can get a mix of swords, spears and HAs out.
 
HA's don't mix well with spears and swords.

When 2 move unit rushing you should 2 move rush :) it's just that better. The point of HA's is their speed and forks on enemy cities reducing the number of potential defenders. No reason to make it AI easier with slowing down your main stack.
 
HA's don't mix well with spears and swords.

When 2 move unit rushing you should 2 move rush :) it's just that better. The point of HA's is their speed and forks on enemy cities reducing the number of potential defenders. No reason to make it AI easier with slowing down your main stack.

To be honest, I almost never use HAs.
 
6:strength: and 2:move: ... at only 50:hammers: and the turbo of Stables ... + 20% withdrawal as if that's not enough!

Play a Mongolia / Carthage game on the side! ;)
 
OK, four turns made.
A quite significant change in the situation
Seems like a good time to ponder and discuss a bit within the next 24 hours which will allow me to finish - or almost finish - my turnset within the three days limit.
First, a brief report, and at the bottom is the save (I forgot to make snapshots, so will return to the save, make them, and insert them in the next post):

1680 BC (t0):
OBs with everybody
BoS: warrior switched to worker (8t)

1640 BC (t1):
Snarl: settler>library (20t)
Barb seen to thw NW of the healing warrior on the FH

1600 BC (t2):
worker whipped in BoS

1560 BC (t3):
BoS: worker>warrior (3t)
Nottingham settled to the SW of BoS "in my land"

1520 BC (t4):
V Frown, aka Pussan, settled: warrior (8t)
Snarl at hapcap, decision pending on whether to go settler(8t), worker, or finish library faster than expected.

One more of the nice spots taken away by Churchill

I see 2 spots remaining: one in the SE, on the cost, getting the seefood and the gold and pigs, and one in the SE taking the cow, the corn and the horse.
The dilemma for me - before listening to what the team has to say - is: a settler to grab the SW spot and round up the cities to 4, or a worker to speed up cottaging (to be whipped into continuation of the library. It is possible also to max prod in Snarl and get the library earlier, but the RoI doesn't look great yet. This will also allow us to start the Oracle almost at cap, though, and make max of cottage gold spent in research, so I'd rather be betting on this one..

On a second thought, the gold in the SE might come in handy, and I doubt that it will stay long w/o Churchill getting a hand on it...

Tech-wise: PH to follow (some 6-8 turns, I guess, as research rate will go down) then Hunt>Archer>HBR

Prod: Snarl - lib>Oracle, Bay - worker>chariot>chariot, V Frown - warrior (this can be changed, as 0 hammers invested as of this turn, I was thinking about a grannary in his stead) > grannary.

Your ideas and suggestions for modifications are most welcome till about the same time tomorrow evening.
 

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The usual strategic snapshots:
 

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you should queue up settler before the library, run him few turns and whip him

I think oracle->hbr is the way to go with 4 city break out around 100BC
 
I agree with vranasm: Grab that 1NW of Horses as discussed, and we'll need to look at some form of military campaign.

A fifth settled city isn't going to be too great; Stone-Pigs to the north, 1N of south eastern Wheat, or 1NE of south western Clams could do as 'OK' cities with a mix of :food: and :hammers:, but nothing too exciting there in my view.
 
you should queue up settler before the library, run him few turns and whip him

I think oracle->hbr is the way to go with 4 city break out around 100BC

Do you still consider 1NW of horses best next settlement dot on the map? What about 1S or 2S of the lake in the SW: grabs gold, pigs and seafood?
 
I agree with vranasm: Grab that 1NW of Horses as discussed, and we'll need to look at some form of military campaign.

A fifth settled city isn't going to be too great; Stone-Pigs to the north, 1N of south eastern Wheat, or 1NE of south western Clams could do as 'OK' cities with a mix of :food: and :hammers:, but nothing too exciting there in my view.

Pls, refer to my post above.
 
Personally I think it's too remote. I could be talked into 1NE of Clams in addition to 1NW of Horses, but then I think it's time to look at laying the groundwork for Classical Era war. From my view, there are still some 'fair' sites, but I'm wary that the more we expand, the slower will be our tech' progress.

Just my view though. :)
 
I am really angry at team ignoring cities overlap especially when it's needed and functional.
We have no happy resources and no monarchy. We will be stuck at size 5 and 4 with cities very long and yet we have around capital 12 good tiles and someone still wants totally ignore 1/3 of them just for the sake of some absurd cities somewhere where we will pay 3x the maintenance?
I don't grasp it.

4 cities breakouts are fine. We don't need to pay extended maintenance for nonproductive cities esp. when we need HBR, hunting, archery, math and currency (currency could come from deficit research once we start to capture some neighbor)

Btw we should avoid chopping until we get Math from now on.

I will have to check the save yet, but I think it's clear what I want to see in the rest of FR's turnset.
 
I am really angry at team ignoring cities overlap especially when it's needed and functional.
We have no happy resources and no monarchy. We will be stuck at size 5 and 4 with cities very long and yet we have around capital 12 good tiles and someone still wants totally ignore 1/3 of them just for the sake of some absurd cities somewhere where we will pay 3x the maintenance?
I don't grasp it.

OK, let me explain: with settling 1S of the lake to our SW we get, admittedly, after some tile-working and a monument there, 1 Gold mine that provides us woith 1Hap and 7 gold. Even this only more than compensates for the $3 maintenance (it might be $2, but could be 3, also. The seafood and the pigs alliviate our Health problem, the seafood also adds $3 to our income. The lake to 1N adds $3 to our income, as do almost all, if nor all the coastal tiles. Besides, we cover our SW flank. The city 1NW of the horses provides us with early two cottages, which , in the short term will be less than the gold from the SW city. In the medium term it provides a boost of some $2 as compared to the SW city. In the long-term the city 1NW of the horses is a big liability. I would have been more cautious on this if we didn't have horses already, but we do.

For me, the overall balance is heavily in favor of the SW city.

I don't like the alternative SW dot of Cam.

So, let's hear also W and L.

For the time being, we are split: 2 in favor of the Horse city, 1 in favor of the Gold city, 1 in favor of a possible alternative pig city.

4 cities breakouts are fine. We don't need to pay extended maintenance for nonproductive cities esp. when we need HBR, hunting, archery, math and currency (currency could come from deficit research once we start to capture some neighbor).

Btw we should avoid chopping until we get Math from now on.

I don't see the Alphabet in your tech line. I assume you expect to get it from Oracle. Yet, you also push NOT to chop till math. Are you willing to bet your money on getting the Oracle w/o marble and w/o chopping, knowing also that WK has marble already mined some time ago and has Poly for quite some time already?

I will have to check the save yet, but I think it's clear what I want to see in the rest of FR's turnset.

With some minor exceptions, it seems pretty clear: a miracle.

I know that you had an excellent plan - including the Horse city which is arguable, but definitely has its merits and MIGHT turn the best 2d or 3rd settlement, depending on how the game turns - but we, as a team, went quite astray from your initial plan, and didn't quite to the point follow your modified plan (meaning the settlement of the 3rd city).

You might be disappointed, but that's how teams work. Some of us, the rest of the team, have an inferior understanding of the game, but your reasoning has to be much more persuasive and promise much better outcomes - in comparison to what we might be contemplating as a course of action - if you want to move the team into your direction.

As a matter of fact, Cam and I have agreed on the Horse city exactly because we weren't ABSOLUTELY sure that the other alternatives were better - I should speak on my own behalf only, but Cam will intervene, if I have misinterpreted his posting.

With all due appreciation of your team-considerate style, you HAD a carte blanche, but didn't use it. So, please, stop acting as a teenager - not to use Cam's better word for it - and get our team going with whatever you might offer with advise, superb play, and understanding - of others' shortcomings included!
 
I have put my explanation why the horse city with 2 FP's overlap is our best bet right now. If it doesn't convincing enough, fair.

You do realize that the SW city (1S of lake) is 5 tiles away, meaning 10T for roading to the place. Another 4T for improving pigs.
Needs monument (depending on food) will probably grow to size 2 in 7T, whips monument, pops borders at +10 (17T after settling) at which point you need another 4T for improving gold (we will suppose that the place will be already preroaded), meaning we won't get from this place any kind of commerce and happiness until 21!! turns after settling the spot?

meaning if you go with settler now, whip it in 3T (+- could be maybe 4) + 5T going in the place making the place effective in awesome 29(30) turns? that means 3 turnsets from now on we will wait and watch the city to make any kind of impact!
The clams will come at first border pop too.

And no the city doesnt secure our left wing, if anything it does it actually WEAKENS our position from strategic point of view, due to logistics (5T for reinforcements).


On the other hand MY horsey city is 3 tiles away from capital, river connected (no roading needed!!), have preimproved cottages around capital to work good tiles from get go (you did make the cottages, right?) and is productive right after settling (works cottages which are 3F3C that's 6 yield tiles and eventually gets better!).

From strategic point of view is easily defendable and just makes our empire more compact.
 
as for the Alpha we don't need to selftech it if we go with HBR, we can trade for alpha with HBR (maybe with 1 or 2 turns of investment).

Currency could be teched through math.
 
One thing, FR. Why did you settle V Frown where you did? Don't you think the black dot would have been a better spot? Only 1 desert tile and hills for :hammers:



I'm just curious as to the reasoning behind that move...

[EDIT] Or even 1S of black spot...[/EDIT]
 
One thing, FR. Why did you settle V Frown where you did? Don't you think the black dot would have been a better spot? Only 1 desert tile and hills for :hammers:



I'm just curious as to the reasoning behind that move...

[EDIT] Or even 1S of black spot...[/EDIT]

For the difference in the # of FPs and non-desert hills. Some consideration of the choking impact, too.
 
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