[Religion and Revolution]: War of Independence

raystuttgart

raystuttgart

Civ4Col Modder
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
9,637
Location
Stuttgart, Germany
Hi guys,

first let me explain some things.

Currently:
Spoiler :

In TAC the easiest and fastest way of winning "War of Independence" is still the same as in Vanilla:
"Destroying all Ships of the King on Sea"

Problem is, that the king sends his troops in very very tiny waves, so the player can overcome them relatively easy.

Trying to have "War of Independence on Land" on the other side, is much more difficult and takes much more time.
(Because the Ships need to travel between New World and Colonies many many times.)

Even worse, with every ship you destroy, you slow down "War of Independence on Land".

So ususally, when trying "War of Independence on Land" you loose the race of being first to be independent.


With TAC 2.03:
Spoiler :

Things will become very different.
King will throw his troops at you in waves.

The first ones might be smaller and you will still be able to fight of most of the kings troops on sea.

The later waves however will be pretty big and a lot of land-troops will make it to the colonies.

"War of Independence" will be fought on sea and on land.

It is supposed to become a real challenging final and not the boring slaugthering of troops on ships, as it is now.

To make this feature work in an optimal way with moderate efforts for implementation,
the TAC team has decided to give the king enough ships so it would not be necessary to have ships travelling back to europe to bring new troops.

Alternatively some more serious AI and Unit_AI improvements would have been needed.
Of course, there will also be some adjustments to AI and Unit_AI.

The feature will be fully customizable in XML of course.


Changes I would like to do in Religion and Revolution:
Spoiler :

As already mentioned, in TAC 2.03 the king will get a lot of ships, so his ships won't need to travel back to Europe, to pick up new troops.
Thus the king will have massive amout of Man-O-Wars (really strong).

I would like to give the king basically as much Man-O-Wars, as he currently already has.
(Less than he will have in TAC 2.03.)

Balancing would show if we would need more Man-O-Wars, of course.

These Man-O-Wars however will not be carrying troops !
They will be used for attacking other ships, defending the transport ships and bombarding defenses.

The troops will be transported by Galleons.
(Eventually "War Galleons", which will be a little stronger than normal Galleons.)

The king would also get enough Galleons (or "War Galleons") so that they would not need to travel back to Europe, to pick up troops.
(Otherwise every ship you destroy would slow down winning WOI.)

Once a Galleon (or "War Galleons") has unloaded troops, it will travel to the next Europe-Travel-Field and dissappear.
(They will simply be removed.)

The Man-O-Wars will stay in the New World and fight.

This means of course, that we will need to adjust / create the UnitAIs.
Also, rebalancing of this upcoming feature of TAC will be needed.

But I think, it will be worth it. :thumbsup:


Feedback ? :)
 
Not sure to be honest. Feels like cheating to me giving the king ships to transport and just simply delete them. Would be better to make the ai actually use the ships he got better also the troops. I have to see the TAC 2.03 AI before I comment any further on this I think.
 
Gomer_Pyle said:
Not sure to be honest. Feels like cheating to me giving the king ships to transport and just simply delete them. Would be better to make the ai actually use the ships he got better also the troops. I have to see the TAC 2.03 AI before I comment any further on this I think.
Click to expand...

There are 2 aspects:

A) Ships travelling between New World and Europe to transport Units of King:

If the king needs to have his ships travel between Europe and the New World to bring all his troops, there is one major problem.
With every transport ship you destroy, you actually make the "War on Land" longer, because the king needs more travels.
This is pretty bad, because you might loose the "race for independence" against another opponent then.

B) King having huge fleet:

If you give the king enough ships to transport all of his troops without travelling many times between Europe and New World,
they should not all be Man-O-Wars, because then his fleet will be incredibly strong.

If you however give him some Galleons, what should they do in the New World, after droping the troops ?
Should they just sail around and draw performance ?
 
I like the idea. But if you want to avoid deleting Galleons, you could try this:

The King starts with "War Galleons", which will be a little stronger than normal Galleons.
If you destroy a king's ship (either War Galleon or Galleon), a normal Galleon is created for him in Europe.
Once a ship (either War Galleon or Galleon) has unloaded troops, it will travel back to Europe as normal.

This way, you could get some advantage by destroying his ships, without the problem of slowing down transport.
 
Maybe it really is best to have :

A) Bigger (in XML configurable) Waves similar to TAC 2.03 --> Will make WOI more challenging
B) Man-O-Wars and (War-)Galleons (with specialised UnitAIs) --> Will also make WOI more interesting
C) (War-)Galleons travelling between Europe and New World (no mega size fleet) --> Still most realistic

We would live then with "Destroying Transports will slow down WOI on Land".

Any other suggestions ? :think:
 
raystuttgart said:
We would live then with "Destroying Transports will slow down WOI on Land".

Any other suggestions ? :think:
Click to expand...
Well actually yes! I have another suggestion...
I really think there is no viable solution... until we add inventions! :goodjob:

I would make sure that in the beginning of the WOI, Man-O-Wars and land troops are stronger than our troops, especially Man-O-Wars. So during the first waves, I would be quite difficult to beat Man-O-Wars.

With this(or these) invention(s) (to be determined) we could only unlock during the WOI, we would unlock specific promotions/units/advantages or whatever you want (something like Col1 "continental army").

Basically, our strength should increase during time. The problem is the game is too static now. It should be more dynamic, and inventions should make the game more dynamic...

What do you think?
 
Love that. Been mentioned before I think. But hammered down as not a good idea. But this is something the game needs badly.
 
Gomer_Pyle said:
Love that. Been mentioned before I think. But hammered down as not a good idea. But this is something the game needs badly.
Click to expand...
I knew you would like it!
About the "hammering". If I remember correctly, Ray was against adding a new unit indeed.
I'm simply suggesting this:
1) Our strength should evolve during time and increase.
2) We should loose early battles, and hopefully start wining afterwards.
3) What we do inside our colony ("economical aspect", production of invention points, or even crosses, bells or something else...) should affect the military aspect.
 
Robert Surcouf said:
I'm simply suggesting this:
1) Our strength should evolve during time and increase.
2) We should loose early battles, and hopefully start wining afterwards.
3) What we do inside our colony ("economical aspect", production of invention points, or even crosses, bells or something else...) should affect the military aspect.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me. I agree the game is too static especially during WOI. Historically the American colonies did not have a navy at the beginning of the WOI to challenge England, and never had a naval presence throughout the war. So a superiority of the king's ships throughout the entire game would be accurate.

Also I like the idea of colonial strength evolving over time as the colonies learn how best to fight the king. The king's forces should be absolutely stronger than a colony's at the beginning of the war. The biggest issue with this is if we increase the strength and the numbers of the king's forces, will they simply overrun weaker colonial forces at the beginning of a war?

I have an idea that might make the game a little less static, and perhaps address some of the transportation issues brought up. What if those colonies that were under a certain percentage in favor of declaring independence when you start the WOI, remained loyal to the king? (Like Quebec, Montreal and the Caribbean colnies did). It would mix things up a bit, give the player something to think about in terms of where to focus on liberty bell production and allow the king several safe habors to deploy and build up his troop strength. Obviously, you could capture those colonies like he could capture yours, or you could focus on preserving and defending those colonies that declared independence with you.

I'm not sure how popular such a feature would be, how much work it would be to implement it, or if it would even be possible? I know the original concept is to drive all the king's forces from your colonies, so colonies remaining loyal to the king might be an impossible feature. Could it be modified so that to win the game you must drive all the kings forces from those colonies that originally declared independence from you?

This is just a vague idea, nothing more. I am just throwing it out there.
 
It's an interesting idea (the Rebel Sentiment % in a colony could become a % chance of whether the colony would join the revolution or not when it erupted). If the team agrees on it, we should note the concept down on the main "concepts" post.
 
Sanotra said:
These are great ideas. Have we come to any final decisions on them ?
Click to expand...

The state of the discussion:

1. We will improve War of Independence, as it currently is pretty boring.
2. We will not adapt the solution that TAC 2.03 will bring but create something of our own.
3. Our new solution will probably give the Kings two different types of ships (with two UnitAIs).
4. Further details about the rest of the implementation are open.
5. It is currently not clear in which release we will implement this.
6. This feature is tightly conected to the feature Loyalty to the King

Comments:

Our decisions are not "final".
They can always be discussed again if new good ideas or problems arise.
 
What happened to the REF? :confused:

In RaR 1.1 the king has got far too little number of ships to carry his troops. Is the concept of TAC 2.03 not included in RaR 1.1?

I see in this thread you wanted to improve the TAC solution:


raystuttgart said:
A) Bigger (in XML configurable) Waves similar to TAC 2.03 --> Will make WOI more challenging
B) Man-O-Wars and (War-)Galleons (with specialised UnitAIs) --> Will also make WOI more interesting
C) (War-)Galleons travelling between Europe and New World (no mega size fleet) --> Still most realistic
Click to expand...

This has not been done, right? But what did you change compared to TAC? Looks like you have reduced the number of Man-O-Wars but you didn't add the (War-)Galleons. Or like the concept before TAC 2.03 when the Man-O-Wars had to return to Europe.
 
Stoepsel said:
What happened to the REF? :confused:

In RaR 1.1 the king has got far too little number of ships to carry his troops. Is the concept of TAC 2.03 not included in RaR 1.1?
Click to expand...

I thought I did.
Maybe I have forgotten something. :dunno:

I had asked several times for help with testing but nobody was found ...

I will take a look. :thumbsup:

Stoepsel said:
This has not been done, right ? But what did you change compared to TAC ?
Click to expand...

No, this has not been done yet.
For now, I changed only a few minor things.
Nothing to really mention.

Need to take a look again. :dunno:
 
@Stöpsel:

You were right, I had forgotten a small XML-setting.
I am simply too DLL focussed sometimes. :)

Thanks for reporting. :thumbsup:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Desert War + American Revolution
Replies
0
Views
186
seems_legit
S
C
Earn your Industrial Revolution
Replies
18
Views
897
Boris Gudenuf
Boris Gudenuf
hokath
(7-48) Buff Fealty policies Organized Religion and Divine Right
Replies
10
Views
357
hokath
hokath
H
CTD Python error
Replies
9
Views
631
GregFred187
GregFred187
B
Tips for religion spread
Replies
2
Views
706
vorlon_mi
vorlon_mi
Top Bottom