Subdued Animals in C2C discussions

Here is a picture of a bunch of the land animals we have so far.

I personally think the penguin's size should be reduced a little.

EldrinFal said:

Ori's suggestion has merit too, but not sure if there is anything in place to do that atm.

Click to expand...

The animal kingdom just got that much wilder

Thanks for the link Ori. That looks cool.

On a side note some Strength changes I think should be adjusted from the new changes ...

Name = Old/New
Cassowary = 4/3
Ostrich = 4/3
Cave Bear = 4/5
Panda = 3/2
Deer = 1/2
Eagle = 1/2
Hawk = 1/2
Orangutan = 1/2
Onager = 1/2
Cheetah = 1/2

So it more like ...

1 = Harmless (Ex. Dugong)
2 = Weak (Ex. Deer)
3 = Harmful (Ex. Lion)
4 = Dangerous (Ex. Polar Bear)
5 = Very Dangerous (Ex. Elephant)
6 = OMG!! (Ex. Mammoth)

I have just added in the Snake Charmer and Snake Pit buildings. They can be built by the subdued cobra. Except for any errors I think that is my lot for this release.

@Dancing Hoskuld



Here is a Wolverine. This should be limited to the Northern Hemisphere and be in Polar or Pine Forests.

@Dancing Hoskuld



Here is a Tapir (the South American not the Asian one). It should be limited to Jungles and Swamps.

Reading all the "this should be limited to the Northern Hemisphere" makes me wonder if starting locations will be at all balanced. Starting in the north gives a greater variation of animals than starting in the south. Just a thought.

Cheers

Hydromancerx said:

Thanks for the link Ori. That looks cool.

On a side note some Strength changes I think should be adjusted from the new changes ...

Name = Old/New
Cassowary = 4/3
Ostrich = 4/3
Cave Bear = 4/5
Panda = 3/2
Deer = 1/2
Eagle = 1/2
Hawk = 1/2
Orangutan = 1/2
Onager = 1/2
Cheetah = 1/2

So it more like ...

1 = Harmless (Ex. Dugong)
2 = Weak (Ex. Deer)
3 = Harmful (Ex. Lion)
4 = Dangerous (Ex. Polar Bear)
5 = Very Dangerous (Ex. Elephant)
6 = OMG!! (Ex. Mammoth)

Click to expand...

I used the values laid out by Thunderbrd by and large since DH expressed his preference for them. I still need to add the terrain/feature attack/defense bonuses though and that should make them a bit stronger.

Did we ever agree on a % for that? I'm thinking since their str is so low overall that we can do +50% or +100%. Predators I think might need the Hunting promo.

BlueGenie said:

Reading all the "this should be limited to the Northern Hemisphere" makes me wonder if starting locations will be at all balanced. Starting in the north gives a greater variation of animals than starting in the south. Just a thought.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Yeh, I see that as a potential issue too. Unless you are playing on an Earth map I don't even think it makes sense. Subject to not knowing anythign about the landmas distribution the driving forces of evolution would be essentially symmetrical north to south, so IMO all these hemisphere restrictions are out of place on a randomized map.

Koshling said:

Yeh, I see that as a potential issue too. Unless you are playing on an Earth map I don't even think it makes sense. Subject to not knowing anythign about the landmas distribution the driving forces of evolution would be essentially symmetrical north to south, so IMO all these hemisphere restrictions are out of place on a randomized map.

Click to expand...

I do agree also, actually, really, how many players play on an Earth map? I bet not that many, maybe less than 5%

btw can someone make newer btns for these, the frames just look bad

BlueGenie said:

Reading all the "this should be limited to the Northern Hemisphere" makes me wonder if starting locations will be at all balanced. Starting in the north gives a greater variation of animals than starting in the south. Just a thought.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Well we could always limit African animals to the southern hemisphere. However some have Asian cousins such as Elephants and Rhinos in Asia and Africa. Then again I could just add more animals from Africa, South America and Australia.

EDIT: Well here would be my hemisphere list for land animals ...

Northern Hemisphere
1. Bear
2. Bison
3. Camel
4. Cave Bear
5. Cave Lion
6. Aurochs
7. Dire Wolf
8. Oanger
9. Horse
10. Mammoth
11. Giant Panda
12. Polar Bear
13. Siberian Tiger
14. Deer
15. Wolf
16. Beaver
17. Ibex
18. Moose
19. Wolverine

Southern Hemisphere
1. Cheetah
2. Giraffe
3. Gorilla
4. Hyena
5. Jaguar
6. Lion
7. Pack of Lions
8. Orangutan
9. Penguin
10. Zebra
11. Cassowary
12. Hippo
13. Kangaroo
14. Komodo Dragon
15. Okapi
16. Ostrich
17. Tapir
18. Ratel
19. Bongo
20. Water Buffalo
21. Mandrill
22. Aardvark

Both
1. Bengal Tiger
2. Wild Boar
3. Elephant
4. Panther
5. Rhinoceros
6. Cobra
7. Gemsbok
8. Eagle
9. Hawk
10. Vulture

This set up seems a bit more balanced.

@Dancing Hoskuld



Here is a Ratel, other known as an African Honey Badger. They are extremely tough and will take on both Lions and Killer Bees. It should be in the Southern Hemisphere and near Savanna.

strategyonly said:

btw can someone make newer btns for these, the frames just look bad

Click to expand...

I already gave DH a Giraffe and Deer button/icons. He just did not apply them to buildings.

@Dancing Hoskuld



Here is a Bongo from the Jungles of Africa. It should be in the Southern Hemisphere and live in the Jungle.

Hydromancerx said:

I already gave DH a Giraffe and Deer button/icons. He just did not apply them to buildings.

Click to expand...

I thought I had.
edit that means a new FPK.

Funny thing about certain animal designs... the same basic designs keep showing up evolved again and again. Millions or tens of millions of years apart from animals that are reptile and mammal and largely unrelated genetically. Animals that look nothing alike are closely related while ones that look near identical are unrelated. Useful forms keep evolving again and again. Maybe more spikes, horns, or scales instead of fur or feathers, but the basic animal is there.

So I'd be more concerned with starting terrians instead of specific locations by map coordinates. A generally moose shaped animal evolves to wade through marshs and eats plants while not swimming or drowning. A wolf shaped thing is a predator that runs down prey... even if its a reptile with a solar sail and called dimetrodon. Things evolve that way because the design works.

If you include thermal belts in the map building stage... then North and South make sense for placement. Animals fill nitches in the enviroment and there are several examples of animals that took ocean voyages and ends up breeding else where.

In short, if your not setting up a specific planet... don't get too tied up in spawning locations by Earth standard. Animals migrate. Animals die back or switch focuses of food sources. Sometimes iguanas swim, bird can't fly and land animals go back to the sea.

@Necratoid

Well my "other" project Sagan 4 deals with alien ecosystems, I am fully aware of species adaptions. Since C2C is not nearly long enough to deal with evolution timescales think it is important that different groups of Earth animals are grouped together. Note that it is true that animals can do well and even thrive in similar biomes as their home biome. Such as the Gemsbok, a desert antelope that lives in Arabia and the Sahara survives just as well when it was brought to New Mexico in the 1970s.

Due to random maps its not going to be the same as Earth but can at least say that species from North America, Europe and Asia can go in the Northern hemisphere while species from South America, Africa, Australia and Antarctica can go in the southern hemisphere. This at least will produce say Zebras, Giraffes and Lions in the same part of the world while Bison, Wolves and Moose can be in the other half of the world. Thus creating some regional wildlife in addition to our terrain based wildlife.

Hydromancerx said:

@Necratoid

Well my "other" project Sagan 4 deals with alien ecosystems, I am fully aware of species adaptions. Since C2C is not nearly long enough to deal with evolution timescales think it is important that different groups of Earth animals are grouped together. Note that it is true that animals can do well and even thrive in similar biomes as their home biome. Such as the Gemsbok, a desert antelope that lives in Arabia and the Sahara survives just as well when it was brought to New Mexico in the 1970s.

Due to random maps its not going to be the same as Earth but can at least say that species from North America, Europe and Asia can go in the Northern hemisphere while species from South America, Africa, Australia and Antarctica can go in the southern hemisphere. This at least will produce say Zebras, Giraffes and Lions in the same part of the world while Bison, Wolves and Moose can be in the other half of the world. Thus creating some regional wildlife in addition to our terrain based wildlife.

Click to expand...

Fine, provided there are equal numbers of each with equally distributed spawn resources (so same total numebr of spawns resultign in same (statistical) pattern of bonuses obtainable via herd buildings etc.

@Dancing Hoskuld



Here is a Water Buffalo from Africa. It should be in the Southern hemisphere and live in savanna, jungle and swamp.

@Dancing Hoskuld



Here is a Mandrill, a monkey from Africa. It should live in the Jungle and the Southern Hemisphere.