Von Münchhausen II

I believe it's me next, 2 turns to wats,1 to GA and a GSci.. Well that is nice of you (you could have played the extra 2 turns for the wats for me but maybe it's better to stick by rules or we get chaos).
Really powerful last few sets by the way. Maybe we fully staff Sukhothai and Si Satch wats and leave Muang as more of a production house. I think Si probably has the food for it but population is a bit low due to our needs for CdP and other things.
I could remuster troops around Sydney to attack York from the east over low ground. We have the happiness for it so i think I should look at the front at least. I'll look at the save later for more ideas on timings, techs and policies.

Doesn't seem to be much left of Liz's military. Nice set Grandad. Now comes the obligatory second guess. I'll use mine to ask why we bought a courthouse? They're kinda expensive, we're plenty happy, and we're not yet at the point where gold is no object. I'm also a little puzzled about the deleted worker strategy, but I see I gave the thumbs up after that was mentioned (don't know how I missed it).

At least there's another English worker up for grabs in the save, it could perhaps start a road to Coventry.
Good set. I never played with Siam, but it seems a couple of elephants can bust a weak town just like that. When earlier I retreated from York the English units were following me, probably she won't have a unit on every tile anymore. I'm expecting longbows at any moment, though.
Good set, yes, I would have hand-built that courthouse as well, I would always do that when there's no urgent happiness problem.
Amazing that we still haven't found another wonder yet, for Sidney. Probably Krakatoa and the Barier Reef are both on this map.

I wouldn't mind an occasional Research Agreement, even without a Porcelain Tower, like with Suleiman or so, we don't have that many units to upgrade. Have we decided to pass on the Porcelain Tower?

Deleted worker was to pay or keeping the GSci around. Probably not needed but there you go.

I mainly brought the courthouse on autopilot. Usually I'm struggling for so they can't wait. Still its one less thing that needs doing now.

The latest I've seen Porcelain Tower go on Immortal was just under t130. I don't know if that's a reliable prediction though, 'cause I'm often the one that gets it and my sample size isn't real high. I think it's worth a shot at 13 turns in the capital. The fail gold would help us upgrade some archers (170 gold a piece I think) if we don't get it. The AI are at each others throats, so even if one of them get the PT I don't think they can get a great turn advantage out of it. The exception might be Gandhi, but we can take it from him.

I only built one archer. I had intended to build more. If we could get another 2 or 3 to upgrade that would be nice.

Hastings should make a nice production town. Would anyone support a barracks there? They aren't particularly great buildings but being able to build promoted troops for replacements as and when could be nice. I also think a Granary would be nice here (Wheat and Deer in BFH) and maybe even a watermill too (don't hate me Optional!) This lets us work all 3 gems as food neutral. Either that or we need more Martime allies.

If we got the PT I say keep the GSci with the other one to bulb Chemistry > Fertilizer/Gunpowder > Chemistry.

EDIT:
On the war front I would think we only really need to take York and London now. It doest look like Liz's other cities have anything we need though Nottingham may be hiding something in the fog.

York should be fairly easy since we've whittled down a lot of that archer and pike spam. The city is on a hill, but it's surrounded by wide open terrain. It would be nice to have some range support for London though - mainly to weaken pikes and sink annoying triremes (I can't wait for 100 hp combat).

Is there just those 4 English cities left or is there one tucked back in the fog? I forgot to check that in the negotiation screen. Do we want to leave her with those two coastal cities or just one? I have a sneaking suspicion that oil is going to show up around Canterbury, but that city is a dump right now.

I like barracks too, but I never seem to get around to building them until the later game. Growth buildings are a great idea in Hastings right now, then it might be a good idea to go through the whole workshops (Ironworks), colosseums, markets drill and fit in some more units along the way.

Edit: Grandad, I read your post and then asked the same exact question you posed. In my defense, I suffered a few head injuries as a child. Seriously though, I don't know about Coventry or Nottingham. I could flip a coin about taking either one of these or leaving Liz with both of them.

Optional said:

Ah, you weren't that bold yet with our Naresuans in your set, though.

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You seem to forget that I drew first blood courageously, by killing that archer by an elephant.

NotSure, we bought those items in Hastings to get full effiency on Legalism in 2 turns, 20 culture to our little country.

Well played grandad, I think I can step back again and say we have enough for our need right now. Still, a couple of more archers wouldn't kill us, they will kill everything else. When upgraded.

grandad did the right thing by buying those buildings, we were sitting on something like 1500 gold and we're still at 13gpt with 722 in the coffers. So economy wise, I'm not worried.

So let's take York and London, then we set our eyes to Ghandi. If you play a friendly game, he can be your best mate...but we're not. That little jerk have to go next.

OK so we can take York first, wear down London, have a run on PT, look at growth in Hastings (I also calculate we need water mill and granary here). I will run science in Si Satch and Sukhothai if possible (dunno if Si Satch has the pop for that, I have a feeling it needs 1 more). Maybe I put 1 scientist each in Si Satch and Muang.

Muang might make another archer for upgrade to crossbow.

Science I go machinery then back fill for a run on chemistry (Metal casting next).

Is it safe to try for a RA or do we expect to continue our conquest within 30 turns. Maybe Ghandi or Ramesses if they have money.

These are just my general ideas, I will look at the save in a few hours and could play tonight or tomorrow if we still need to discuss anything.

If you do decide to RA go for one of the AI that isn't near us. Less chance of a DoW break and they like us more anyway.

I think Sydney needs some cash soon so bear that in mind.

NotSure said:

Is there just those 4 English cities left or is there one tucked back in the fog? I forgot to check that in the negotiation screen.

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Warwick, 4 citizens! So Liz has still got 5 towns.

What I usually do when conquering and I see towns I'm hardly interested in, I still take them, but sell them when happiness becomes an issue. They don't do a lot of money, but the capture money + sale is still interesting, a few 100 gold usually.
I rather see Oda, Ramesses or Catherine have a few puppets there than leave them as self-governed English towns. Leaving Liz with York, Canterbury and Warwick is a tad much, we would constantly have to watch our back then, and is that what we want?

Going after York can still be a bit tricky, Brichals, as it's difficult to surround it, especially watch the road from London.

At the moment Beard & Belly is the only one who has the money for a Research Agreement, so I wouldn't consider others just now.

Our 6 horses should come back this turn, hopefully we can sell most of them again. Catherine has lots of iron for sale, if anyone wants to do a swap with her so that we can build a trebuchet (or are we at catapults, don't know) before upgrading it to cannons, that seems fine. I wouldn't buy loads or iron, though, not worth the money.

A growth building (or two) in Hastings seems really needed, it's got no +4 food or even +3 food river tiles to work, so we need a building for growth here. All along I thought that Si Satchanalai could do with one as well, as it's got a few zero food tiles.
The size of our 3 original core towns is fine just now, but with staffing Wats growth buildings might still be handy.

I'm not very decided on the Porcelain Tower. Military first, I say, but when we're fine with military...

Optional said:

What I usually do when conquering and I see towns I'm hardly interested in, I still take them, but sell them when happiness becomes an issue. They don't do a lot of money, but the capture money + sale is still interesting, a few 100 gold usually.

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...and gives your military some more XP. It's probably the best approach. We'll acquire some border hate with a new civ, but we shouldn't really care too much about that.

Our 6 horses should come back this turn, hopefully we can sell most of them again. Catherine has lots of iron for sale, if anyone wants to do a swap with her so that we can build a trebuchet (or are we at catapults, don't know) before upgrading it to cannons, that seems fine. I wouldn't buy loads or iron, though, not worth the money.

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EXCELLENT suggestion. Cathy may have no interest in our horses, but if we can sell a few to any civ and then use those profits to buy iron from her that might be one of the best moves we've made in a while. Our lack of siege weapons is going to become an issue soon. Two or three trebs/cats will make a big difference with Gandhi's cities.

Looking at the save we also get our marble back in 2 turns. I might also sell our single copy of a resource (ivory or gold, didn't decide yet). This is because I think looking at that I am planning to run a deficit for a bit. I want to pull off CdP and buy a water mill in Si Satch. it will grow in 3 turns then I can staff a Wat but production will be down. I think we need growth more than production there now anyway. I'd rather use Muang as a production base which is a good city on it's own. Maybe by the end of my set Si Satch will grow back to support the Wat fine.

Looking at the army we have and the time it takes to get into position (e.g. I want to bring the medic NE up) I'm not sure I will take York. OK I probably should. We have 7 mobile NE and 2 archers. Dunno how easy it will be. I will build a couple of archers for upgrades to crossbows, or trade for iron and get some siege to be built in Muang. I will see what kind of deals I get.

Main controversial thing is buying a water mill. Is that an OK idea?

I've got a worker sitting here ready to be stolen. Should I steal and disband? I think so, we will get more from new cities if we need. Ok we have an unupgarded silk at coventry, i will steal him and use him to around coventry then disband when hes redundant.

Plan B. We dont man the wats until the GA finishes. More workers equals more gold bonuses and this gives us a real shot at PT. By the end of my turn we can have enough pop for wats. I think I can probably up Si Satch by 2 in these turns. I kind of want to buy a water mill in Si Satch anyway, but I could probably build one. I prefer this route now actually.

I'm glad you talked yourself out of buying that water mill. I agree it shouldn't take long to build during the GA.

I think there are enough tiles to improve and routes to connect to justify keeping all the workers we have/steal for now. I think there's plains underneath those forests around Coventry. If we put lumber mills on them I bet the city will build a lighthouse (as soon as we research it) and then we can annex it and build a Courthouse, Caravel and some work boats pretty quickly. It should develop into a pretty decent city.

Yeah Coventry should cover any possible naval builds we'll have if we annex it.

I have dreams of nukes flying out of subs. I can't even remember if you can have nukes on subs in civ5

Sounds good! We don't need to rush taking York, I suppose. If we've got some crossbows we can do a slow grind, getting our units some experience.

In my opinion we haven't got the money for buying buildings. Sydney we better put some money in while we're still looking around for a wonder for them. Sydney's food goes into all our towns instead of just one, that should work out as better with already 5 towns (better than buying a growth building, although building it is fine).

You can take off a citizen off the gold tile and work the CdP this turn and set it on gold in SiSatch, still grows next turn.

I don't see any Golden age until 2 turns?

6 Phants against a lousy Pike in a city, where are the guts? I guess you don't like to lose units and keep a clean sheet? Well, the assault against Hastings was much more in the "losing units" sense, but somehow you pulled it off. Same with Canterbury, almost the same risk but what did we lose?

Not much, except some warrior.

Rest a couple of turns, then MASH them...if we lose a unit or two, really, who cares?

We will have 452 units more than anyone in this game and we're not playing even tactically.

Kill York, now!

I agree with gozpel. I worried about our units in my set and really I only needed 3 or 4 to kill the city on one turn. kill! KILL!!

I could go for York, I'll have to see whats in the fog.

The thing is that i was planning to go through Sydney and there is marsh before there. Really there's a 2-3 tile blanket of rough terrain. I think I can probably push through regardless. They will take 1-2 max damage per attack received and if I can get the medic up there I think it's OK.

Other than that I am planning to go hard growth in Si Satch, I'll micro it around for best results. I was trying some combos in the save already. Sukhothai will go for PT even though our wats will be unfilled, I think we have a very good chance of a free GS at the end of my set. I'll maybe make a catapult in Muang, buying 2 iron from Cathy. A RA with Suleiman could still be an option possibly. Depends how much gpt our golden age brings in. I could sell luxes as we are very happy, but it seems theres not much money around.

I will play in a couple of hours.