Merging Doctrines and Traditions from Realism Invictus

Dancing Hoskuld

Dancing Hoskuld

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This thread is to discuss each of these as I look at merging them into C2C. First up

Archery Tradition
Gives archery units the free "Archery Tradition" promotion in all cities. (Sharpshooter promotion: +1 extra first strike; +5% strength)

Requires Archery tech

Obsolete at Flintlock tech​

Doctrine - Flaming Arrows
Allows archery units to get the flaming arrow promotions
  • I +20% city attack; +15% vrs Mounted and siege units.
  • II +20% vrs Mounted, melee and siege units.
  • III +15% city attack; +25% vrs Mounted and siege units.

Requires Archery

Obsolete at Archery Training we don't have this tech. Doctrine Trained Archers becomes available here.​

Doctrine - Trained Archers
Allows archers (and light mounted) to get the Marksmanship promotions
  • I 2 first strike chances;+10% strength; +15% vrs Mounted units.
  • II 2 first strikes;+15% strength; +20% vrs Mounted units..
  • III Immune to first strikes; +20% strength; +25% vrs Mounted units.

Requires Archery Training tech

Obsolete at Flintlock tech​


Do we want these and what changes should we make?

For example we cant lave the Archery Tradition promotion called Sharpshooter because we already have one of those.

We also have the Marksman promotions in C2C they have the same stats (I think) but they require combat 3 and mounted archery tech and are available to all mounted units.
 
Thunderbrd said:
Are Doctrines and Traditions buildings?

I do have an extensive plan for Flaming Arrows etc...
Click to expand...

Doctrines are Great Wonders, Traditions are National Wonders and Effects (the ones that do the work) are "normal" buildings but should show up in under the special tab in the city screen.

I think both Doctrines and Traditions should not count towards the wonder cap but don't know how to do it. It was done for shrines.
 
I'd ask then to keep Flaming Arrows out of the scheme as it would conflict. Otherwise, the rest of it is looking cool but there SHOULD be some more which would include in the game some balancing factors that equally benefit other CCs in similar ways.

If the moniker on Flaming Arrows was changed to something along the lines of Unique Arrowcraft or something along those lines it could work (though I'd request for greatest harmony with future plans that we try to veer away from 'equipment' realms and try to keep these in terms of 'skill' or unique feat realms.)
 
So this means Archery Tradition is a go as long as we rename the promotion from Sharpshooter to Archery Tradition but the others are out. Flaming arrows because they will conflict with equipment. Trained archers because we already have those promotions in C2C.

Next is some new C2C specific Traditions and a Doctrine.

Hunting Tradition (Land) gives a free Hunting Tradition in all cities. Allowing the hunting tradition promotions.
Available at Hunting Tradition tech

These Hunting tradition buildings should not go obsolete until WWII​

Hunting Tradition (Sea) gives a free Sea Hunting Tradition in all cities. Allowing the sea hunting tradition promotions.
Requires Fishing and Hunting Tradition techs

These Hunting tradition buildings should not go obsolete until Moon colony tech​

Doctrine - Hunting gives a free Master Hunter in all cities.[/INDENT]

I reckon these three get rid of the need to make a Great Hunter as a sub type of the Great General.
 
flaming arrows should be equipment promotion. I like others doctrines

Imperial glory
 
@Dancing Hoskuld

First of all we (ls612 and I) already grabbed the majority of the promotions from Realism Invictus. Flaming Arrows were one of the first ones. Here are posts about what was used ....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11386531&postcount=5
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11392043&postcount=16
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11397744&postcount=22
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11398576&postcount=23
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11406029&postcount=28
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11406061&postcount=29

Note that many names were changed to better fit C2C. There may be more than those links bout you can go in the civpeida to see what we used or even look at the code.

One reason I skipped the Doctrines is that we had duel combat classes. I did not think we needed them. Likewise I was hopeful that the Combat Mod would replace the need for them.

Do we want these and what changes should we make?
Click to expand...

Probably not. We have looted a lot already. And with the combat mod we probably would not even need them. It seems like its redundant to thinks we have and plan on having.
 
Well in general I think you have done it wrong. It does explain why I can give all my pirates the seamanship promotions and why I give all ships those promotions before all else.

I am not saying that all the Doctrines fit C2C I am just saying the way the Seamanship and Pirate ones were done means we lost the chance of some flavour and variety between games. Most of the others I have not seen in game probably because I don't do combat unless necessary and given the hundreds of promotions to choose from I choose something in the first two lines of the promotions.

Did you merge in the Tradition promotions?
 
@Dancing Hoskuld

I think the base promotions that RI had we skipped and instead had an existing promotion become the requirement such as Combat I, Navigation I or Barrage I. Depending upon what type of units the promotion was for.

Also when done we had to change some of the stats since we did not have some of the types of combat classes they had and in turn we had some that they did not have.

How exactly would you have them work?

Here is a list of all the converted promotions from RI.

- Hit and Run
- Loose Formation
- Forward Observers
- Suppressive Fire
- Camouflage
- Flaming Arrows I, II and III
- Chivalry I, II and III
- Siege Engineering I, II and III
- Glorious I, II and III
- Motherland I, II and III
- Seamanship I, II and III
- Pirate I, II and III
- Raider I, II and III
- Marksmanship I, II and III

Note there might have been a few more too. But these are the ones I found.
 
Some doctrines could be connected to traits ex

Imperial glory(glorious)
Req. Imperialistic.

I also never seen most of RI promos so changing it to doctrines is good thing.
 
The main problem is that I can get access to these advanced promotions with no effort on my part.

For example I would prefer some sort of statement (ordinance/world view) that says we support piracy which allows all the pirate buildings, units and promotions at the cost of increased crime, revolutionary sentiment and hit to diplomacy with other nations. In fact there would probably be two or more levels of piracy eg active support, passive support, blind eye and ban.

In the mean time I would go for the Piracy promotions requiring a certain amount (3?) of the earliest pirate based building (Smugglers Shanty). It could even be a auto build building like an RI Doctrine.

I just want it to require a decision on the part of the player is all rather than just another set of promotions.
 
Hydromancerx said:
@DH

Its probably a good idea if we had Piracy as a world view which would trigger both the promotions and the pirate types buildings.
Click to expand...

Really, Piracy as a "worldview" :hmm: I dont know about that? (Well maybe for "gameplay purposes"??
 
The secretive act of adopting piracy into one's military covertly was certainly something only some nations were willing to commit to. It's not to say that this is openly known by the nation's civilians nor to other nations. And there were SOME very small countries that could be said to be Pirate nations entirely... just look at Somalia - pretty much run by these sorts of criminals in a modern sense.
 
I don't know, the act of selling privateer contracts (which in reality is what player controlled pirate units really are) was pretty common knowledge.
 
"Plausible Deniability" allows the monarch (eg Queen Elizabeth I) to say that she told her ministers that (state run) piracy was a no no when talking to foreign diplomats (eg the Spanish) and then entertain said pirates (eg Drake) at tea ;)
 
Inspiratwd by Bravehart movie i think we should add doctrines that gives free promotion against combat type.

In movie Willia Wales teach his people how to fight against mounted infantry. In game terms free vs mounted I free promotion.

Note that this types of promotions at first level in reality are very simple skils (ec cover I - how to use shield to protect against arrows) so it should be added as doctrines like hunter I is.
 
I am planning of adding something like this to the new Heritage Tech.
I was thinking of adding new Military Standards at Military Training but Traditions sounds better.

Tradition (Bear)
World Wonder
+4 Experience to Melee
 
Bringing this back up again.

In RI Traditions are similar to the Achievements that we have in C2C. They are National Wonders that can be built by a Great General (or maybe Great Hunter). They provide a small boost new units built of a single combat class. Those promotions don't lead other promotions. Each major combat class has its tradition which allows your units to counter you enemies choices. You can of course get all of them. The main advantage I see is that it gives you more things to do with all those Great Generals (Hunters/Admirals/Pilots). With this the choice becomes +2exp in your military city or slightly stronger archers in all your cities. It seems quite balanced although I would suggest a reduction in the Military Achievement if we include the traditions to maintain the balance.

We have different main combat classes to RI so we would need to change what the traditions are. We could also add traditions for the other Great People where useful.EG Great Spy and Great Merchant could be useful with out any changes needed to the Spy, caravans and merchant fleets.

Doctrines are about expending effort to specialize the training of your units. This is what the Combat Mod does also.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
Bringing this back up again.

In RI Traditions are similar to the Achievements that we have in C2C. They are National Wonders that can be built by a Great General (or maybe Great Hunter). They provide a small boost new units built of a single combat class. Those promotions don't lead other promotions. Each major combat class has its tradition which allows your units to counter you enemies choices. You can of course get all of them. The main advantage I see is that it gives you more things to do with all those Great Generals (Hunters/Admirals/Pilots). With this the choice becomes +2exp in your military city or slightly stronger archers in all your cities. It seems quite balanced although I would suggest a reduction in the Military Achievement if we include the traditions to maintain the balance.

We have different main combat classes to RI so we would need to change what the traditions are. We could also add traditions for the other Great People where useful.EG Great Spy and Great Merchant could be useful with out any changes needed to the Spy, caravans and merchant fleets.

Doctrines are about expending effort to specialize the training of your units. This is what the Combat Mod does also.
Click to expand...

Can you give a simple example of one, because i am confused (as normal).
 
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