SGOTM 09 - Murky Waters

No City Razing

Alles klar. Merciful Gyathaar, not the evil one, put in no city razing so barbs won't raze our cities when they capture them... We'd better take this seriously, whatever that entails.
 
One thing about the barbs:
In BtS barb galleys can actually transport troops built in barb cities. This galley or another may already have 2 warriors on board.
We could see a landing SE of our capital before human barbs spawn :eek:.
The warriors couldn't help to enter our culture, if thrown off by a galley, even though they don't want.
 
Wait a minute, are you saying they'll land on our culture already? Can you tell from teh code if they'll land where there's a unit stationed?

Edit: Okay, so they land on that tundra tile. Doesn't the code still prevent them from moving closer until there are X number of cities for Y number of players?
 
If we settle NE of the cattle, when our city has 50:culture: it will start threatening the last two of the 4 cultural tiles that allow barb galleys to cross to our coastal tiles.
 
After a lot of thinking and considerations, I've come to the conclusion that we, Team Murky Waters, shall not further exploit the feature that we can map the terrain (altitude) with targeting fogged tiles with a unit.

Even though other teams may utilize this feature, and we may get a disadvantage from not using it, I want us to avoid the risk of accidentally move a unit. More important, I feel that this feature is not aligned with the intention of how Sid wanted us to play the game.

Please refrain from exploiting this feature with the purpose of mapping the terrain.
 
Wait a minute, are you saying they'll land on our culture already? Can you tell from teh code if they'll land where there's a unit stationed?

Edit: Okay, so they land on that tundra tile. Doesn't the code still prevent them from moving closer until there are X number of cities for Y number of players?
They will not attack or pillage before 2 cities per civ. But that might not take long. They will not move closer until 3 cities per civ or they can attack or pillage (within 2 tiles).
Edit: In fact it's not true that they will not move closer. Having no tile out of our culture available they will move randomly.
 
Great play, LC!
That is a nice challenge with the barbs. Do we need to chop an airship or two to clear the coast?
 
Gyathaar said:
Just to make the barbarian setting a bit clearer:

The barbarians has as earlier stated not been given any extra starting techs

They have also not been given any free starting units.

I made the barbarians more wicked than normal
And on T15 the garbs have a turbo galley. Let me try to break this down. I assume we should take Gyathaar for his word that he did not give the barbs "any free starting units" even though my hunch is he meant "land units."

1. Barbs do not start with sailing and Gyathaar didn't give it to them.
2. Barbs do not start with galleys and Gyathaar didn't give them any free units.

Conclusion: In the first 15 turns, the barbs researched sailing and built a galley. Furthermore, they seem to have a Trading Post for the Nav I promotion, Red Cross for the Medic I promotion, West Point for +4XP, drydocks for another +4XP, Moai Statues and about pop20 to build the galley so fast (okay, under Erkon's new rules, we don't know if they need Moai, they may have some mines). Not sure where the beakers came for Sailing (and fishing?). That's 3 national wonders...hmmm.

Am I missing something here?
 
Pre Play Plan t15-25

OVERVIEW
Build a Settler, MMing for maximum overflow into Library.
Continue to scout along the coast.

BUILD QUEUE
Settler (2t) - Warrior (2t) - Settler until completion - Library

CITY MM
Work both corn tiles while building the settler. Growing takes two turns, 1 with cornfarm + corn, 2nd turn with 2 cornfarms. After that work 2xcorn + grass forest. Once a windmill is complete, work that. The settler has 64/65 hammers the turn before Writing is done, allowing maximum overflow into the Library.
On the last turn, building the Library, work both corn and the windmill.

WORKER ACTIONS
Farm corn2, windmill on the eastern hill, windmill on hill 1N. This order has the worker more central than the other way around on the hillls, so it is closer to the remaining barren hill.

DIPLOMATIC ACTIONS
If we meet any AI, sign a peace treaty.

UNIT MOVES
The scout will continue along the coast, to try to meet AIs and avoid animals.
The settler, when done, will move onto the northern corn, to allow the next player to found a city by the fish. I will break before doing this, however.

STOP CRITERIA
Scary Barbarians
Writing/Settler are done.

OTHERS
Research: Writing-(The Wheel?)
Cities settled: none, but a settler will be produced. It will be settled shortly after my turn set.
Civic changes: none
 
And on T15 the garbs have a turbo galley. Let me try to break this down. I assume we should take Gyathaar for his word that he did not give the barbs "any free starting units" even though my hunch is he meant "land units."

1. Barbs do not start with sailing and Gyathaar didn't give it to them.
2. Barbs do not start with galleys and Gyathaar didn't give them any free units.

Conclusion: In the first 15 turns, the barbs researched sailing and built a galley. Furthermore, they seem to have a Trading Post for the Nav I promotion, Red Cross for the Medic I promotion, West Point for +4XP, drydocks for another +4XP, Moai Statues and about pop20 to build the galley so fast (okay, under Erkon's new rules, we don't know if they need Moai, they may have some mines). Not sure where the beakers came for Sailing (and fishing?). That's 3 national wonders...hmmm.

Am I missing something here?

Drydocks + West Point are one possiblity, but we know the city has at most 2 pop. My guess is there are lots of settled specialists there.
If they have a trading post, things could be very interesting. We will be able to tell if they build a lighthouse as well, because sea tiles will have three food. :eek:
A couple of GGs, GSs and GEs would allow the galley we see, as well.

All this says, we probably want to capture this city sooner rather than later.
 
PPP looks fine to me. Only a couple things.

1. Are you getting the library writing done in 8t ot 9t? (Should be 8t, right?)
2. After Writing, I think we need to think long and hard about whether we go for the CS sling next. With this barb menace, the sooner macemen and faster research might be the ticket.
 
I don't think Gyathaar gave the barbs all this stuff they are normally not capable to have (great specialists, national wonders). It's more believable that he meant no land units and gave them the galleys.
 
PPP looks fine to me. Only a couple things.

1. Are you getting the library done in 8t ot 9t? (Should be 8t, right?)
2. After Writing, I think we need to think long and hard about whether we go for the CS sling next. With this barb menace, the sooner macemen and faster research might be the ticket.

1. Do you mean Writing? Writing will take 9t, because I cannot see a way to get Writing+Settler done in 8t. edit: the Library itself will take 4t.
2. For the time being, I'm leaving all options open. I'll definitely stop for discussion at Writing.
 
1. Do you mean Writing? Writing will take 9t, because I cannot see a way to get Writing+Settler done in 8t. edit: the Library itself will take 4t.
Well there is one way, but it comes out worse for the library build and growth. That's doing windmill first, building settler.
 
It's more believable that he meant no land units and gave them the galleys.
Of course. I was having a bit of fun, because I assume Gyathaar takes a gander at our threads occasionally, especially where his name pops up... :mischief: But he should really clarify that in the maintenance thread, because he used the word unit and CIV officially classifies naval units as a sub-category of units. So technically what he wrote is not true if he gave them galleys.
 
1. Do you mean Writing? Writing will take 9t, because I cannot see a way to get Writing+Settler done in 8t. edit: the Library itself will take 4t.
Before when I was doing it with the worker it was 8t and 3t for the library, but I haven't tried with the settler yet. What about without growing to pop3 first? Guess I'll give it a shot if I get a chance later.
 
Before when I was doing it with the worker it was 8t and 3t for the library, but I haven't tried with the settler yet. What about without growing to pop3 first? Guess I'll give it a shot if I get a chance later.
I've tried it without growing to pop3; it still doesn't work, I think.
The library can be done in 3t if you don't work either corn while building it. I hadn't considered this possiblity.
 
ZPV - PPP looks good, and getting it together that quick is very nice. :goodjob:

1. Where do you plan to send the settler once it's complete? Please include in PPP if you plan to move it.
2. The completion of the library is not that important. It's the Academy which is important i.e. we want to run two scientist asap, so don't choke growth to gain a turn on library, if that means we have to delay the GS.
 
ZPV - PPP looks good, and getting it together that quick is very nice. :goodjob:

1. Where do you plan to send the settler once it's complete? Please include in PPP if you plan to move it.
2. The completion of the library is not that important. It's the Academy which is important i.e. we want to run two scientist asap, so don't choke growth to gain a turn on library, if that means we have to delay the GS.

1. I will stop before I move the settler, but I currently plan to move it to the northern corn. The next player will found the city on his choice of the grassland and the forest.
2. Perhaps I should have mentioned this, but I will work both corn and the windmill on the one turn of library-building I have. Seemed like a no-brainer to me.

I'll add these two points to my PPP.
 
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