Please help me choose an Ideology

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Dec 11, 2005
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I'm playing my first game of BNW and the time has come for me to choose an ideology.

I'm having a difficult time choosing between Freedom and Order. Please help me decide.

I'm playing as Arabia and my gold income-per-turn is excellent. I also chose Mercantilism (-25% buying) and I've built Big Ben (-15% buying). So if I choose Skyscrapers, I'll have -70-something% when buying buildings! This makes Order extremely tempting.

I've been neglecting great writers, artists, musicians and archaeologists. My culture is good only because of my cultural city-states. My tourism is only +2, which is why I'm bee-lining radio in hope of building the Eiffel Tower. Also, my last cultural pick was the opener for Aesthetics; did this in hope of making up for my lack of great writers, artists, musicians and tourism.

I've built only 6 cities. I only have room for maybe one, possibly two more.

The only other civ which has an Ideology is The Zulu and they have chosen Autocracy. My army is one of the smallest and the Zulu's is the largest; but luckily I don't share a border with them.

Based on this situation, which Ideology do you recommend I choose? Thanks in advance.
 
Freedom gives
1.. good defense (Foreign Legion)
2.. good Diplo race boosts
3.. good specialist boosts


Order offers
1.. good production (for assembling an army)
2.. building buying
3.. good science boosts

Overall if you want a
Diplo win go Freedom, (you mostly want gold for city states not buildings)
Science win.. probably Order
Conquest win.. (go Autocracy.. get 33% of buying Military units)

Cultural win.. probably Order in your case (both have good benefits for peaceful cultural growth, but the rapid buy is good)
 
I'm playing my first game of BNW and the time has come for me to choose an ideology.

I'm having a difficult time choosing between Freedom and Order. Please help me decide.

I'm playing as Arabia and my gold income-per-turn is excellent. I also chose Mercantilism (-25% buying) and I've built Big Ben (-15% buying). So if I choose Skyscrapers, I'll have -70-something% when buying buildings! This makes Order extremely tempting.

The thing is (unless you are picking an ideology in Industrial from three factories) there aren't that many buildings you'll want left to buy. Your -40% might be enough and you're better to invest in other boosters.

My tourism is only +2, which is why I'm bee-lining radio in hope of building the Eiffel Tower.

At this point you should probably give up on getting high tourism. You won't win culturally, that +12 won't help you that much, so there's not much point in focusing on that at the expense of what would help you win. Getting culture buildings up (like Broadcast Towers) will be important, because you won't be able to make up fast enough for your delay in increasing your tourism and it's the strength of your culture that will protect you from being pressured too early.

You might want to consider going for the Great Firewall if you fear an AI will win a culture victory before you meet a victory conditions. It stops the Internet effects (Internet doubles tourism... beware the raw numbers.. if they're high now, it might go downhill very fast once the Tourism leader(s) get Airports and Hotels, and if they're tall, their NVC and then they're close to the "closer" Internet that doubles everything... it can be game over in little turns once an AI gets to that).

The only other civ which has an Ideology is The Zulu and they have chosen Autocracy. My army is one of the smallest and the Zulu's is the largest; but luckily I don't share a border with them.

Based on this situation, which Ideology do you recommend I choose? Thanks in advance.

If you go for science victory, are you already quite in the lead in science? Do you have a great economy or great production cities? Do you have coal to build factories in all cities that produce a good amount of science? Order would get you a big science bonus for factories. If you can buy and produce GE, it also has a tenet that let you build spaceship parts with GE.
Freedom has a tenet that lets you buy spaceship parts. They go for around 5000 gold (on Marathon).

If you want to go for diplomacy, look at the tenets for each ideologies that help you with that.

Some Freedom tenets help with your culture, but they rely on your Great Works, so you've screwed a bit by neglecting them too much. Around the time you get Archeology is a good time to start increasing tourism if you've neglected guilds, cultural Wonders earlier. Modern Era or Industrial, +2 tourism.. the clock is ticking. Great Works help increasing culture too, they shouldn't be neglected when all you have to do is to build the guilds and assign specialists to get them. Archeology sites are more situational as you need to build archeologists (can't buy them) and they can waste turns spent on more important things if you're not going for a CV.

If your army is that bad, you might want to be careful about picking an ideology too soon. If you're tech leader or close you may no longer have that option, but if there are several AI about to pick one (I think unless they pick one in Industrial they usually pick one when they have between 196 and 204 in tech score) you might want to delay picking one, to go with the tourism leaders or your friends. With Autocracy the Zulus won't stay peaceful with Civs from differing ideologies. You might want to be on the "stronger side".
 
I finished a culture victory with Order - found it wasn't exactly ideal for my chosen strategy, despite the fact that every ideology is supposed to be able to achieve a culture victory. The only real culture-boosting aspect of Order is the one that gives you a tourism bonus to other civs with less happiness than you - but the only civ who was really giving me a problem (China, which had a huge amount of culture) had WAY higher happiness than I did for most of the game, as they picked Order too and got all the happiness policies...
 
here is my 2 cents.
You have 6 cities -> order
you have good economy -> order
you don't have good military -> freedom
your gWAMs price is still low -> order

there it is, you got the conclusion 3vs1 for order. Be sure to keep a good cash to rushbuy at least 3 extra military units just in case, and start focusing on tourism, they do have a role in ideological defense.
 
yeah, order is too powerful for science and cultural, the 25% science from factories is huge, also a game-breaking problem is that the AI prefers order too much. if you also take order, that will make almost everyone friendly with you, making turtling to spaceships easy task, or open borders easy to negotiate. also the tourism bonus to order civs will affect most of the world.
 
I finished a culture victory with Order - found it wasn't exactly ideal for my chosen strategy, despite the fact that every ideology is supposed to be able to achieve a culture victory. The only real culture-boosting aspect of Order is the one that gives you a tourism bonus to other civs with less happiness than you - but the only civ who was really giving me a problem (China, which had a huge amount of culture) had WAY higher happiness than I did for most of the game, as they picked Order too and got all the happiness policies...

Order also has a policy that increases your tourism output against other Order civs, so I don't see the problem here.
 
Oh yeah, I had that one. (Don't all ideologies get that one, come to think of it?)
 
The thing is (unless you are picking an ideology in Industrial from three factories) there aren't that many buildings you'll want left to buy. Your -40% might be enough and you're better to invest in other boosters.
I don't entirely agree with this. Prior to the Industrial Era, I deliberately keep my number of cities low (3-5) in order to keep Wonder building costs down because of several Wonders that have their costs weighted by however many cities you have. (Ironworks, East India Company, Circus Maximus, National College, etc.) Once I've built Oxford University, _then_ I start expanding. That happens to coincide to when the AI civs start spawning cities like crazy. More than likely a player will have Open Borders with nearly everyone, so unless you want to deal with a "bad case of measles" within your borders, you'll need to start plugging territory gaps with cities of your own. And in order to get those new cities up and running ASAP, you will need to buy quite a few buildings: Monuments, Granaries, Aqueducts, etc. Anythings that reduces that fast construction manageable is quite useful.
 
You can choose an ideology but having a gp farm city will be very helpful as well because you get more culture from the artists/writers/musicians that are being generated in addition to the birth of great people that make great works for tourism which also adds culture to the existing culture. You probably missed out on many social policies by not having a gp farm by the industrial era.

Ideologies are self explanatory. Before choosing one it usually says which ideology is good for which victory. All ideologies are good for a cultural victory but the difference is that each ideology is better for diplomatic, conquest or science victory.

Since you have the money, I recommend freedom because it makes diplomatic victory easier.
 
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