expos building expos

One interesting thing I noticed recently in Tradition games is getting a Granary and Library in your 1st expo which is size 3-4 and start working on a settler there while your cap size 7-8 maybe builds the NC in 13ish turns. At the time you will have 3 cities for your NC so the 4th one will start around the time the NC is done.

(NC = 50% more science? in a 8 or 9 pop city what is that really? Over another Caravan?)

What kind of Map you playing where you even have the option of a 4th city. Usually I find that 4th city is optimal depending on the Map if you have the military to protect it or the space.

I am always pushed off my NC by my fourth city... (so I usually stick with 3 cities) buy my 3rd Library and NC isn't really a big payday over friendly trade routes and 3 Caravans to other Civs(which slows down population growth for a tall civ) unfortunately...

Another thing to look at is how quickly you spam Medieval and Civil Service(pop growth) and when you get your first Spy(I love spies) if you get there early you can steal education and research XBs ... or rush more science

Caravans/ships are wonderful and should almost always be built asap as they come available. However, as you note the opportunity cost of the caravan is not just the hammers, but also the trade route slots. So the choice is not really NC or caravan, the choice is food caravan, CS quest caravan, or science caravan. NC comes on top of that.

If your cities are size 8 - 4 - 4 - 4, base science is 30, so NC is +15+4.5 science, which is nothing to sneeze at.

I frequently use one of my high hammer expo to build the settler for 4th city if I decide to build NC with only 3 city. It gives chance for capital to grow a bit while waiting for libraries to go online in expos. Usually by the time the settler is built and in place to settle, the NC would be finished. I also frequently built 5th city even when playing tradition.

I'm not sure how you manage to steal Education? That requires an AI rushing renaissance extremely early, or if your tech somehow skips it and go straight to Machinery.

I don't think I've ever managed to steal Education, even if the AIs hit early Renaissance, I always have Education by the time my spy can steal their 1st tech

Sclb said:

I'm not sure how you manage to steal Education? That requires an AI rushing renaissance extremely early, or if your tech somehow skips it and go straight to Machinery.

Click to expand...

I've stolen Education several times in the DCL, and Writing once

As you suggested, if you go to Machinery first, it's quite possible to end up stealing Education. In peaceful play, on some maps Optics are higher priority; combine that, or any slow start, with going for Workshops first, and stealing Education is possible.

I'm not saying it's optimal or normal, but it can definitely happen during a winnable game.