Kris Swordsman -- I'm not really a"WTF!!" kinda guy, but if I was...

I didn't say it would be balanced. Don't put words in my mouth.

So a civ with just those positive promotions would be utterly broken? Wouldn't a better solution be to nerf those promotions then instead of adding a random chance you get a very negative promotion instead? forcing in OP abilities only to balance them with pure luck is in my opinion (which you chose to mistrust based on an opinion I don't have, congrats!) stupid design.
 
how could u possibly dont see this unit as superawesome?

Lets say u build 8 of them and every1 got a different promotion u get 6 supermans, 1 which u can not be used in enemy teritory (how d this make the units useless????) and one with a small attack penatly. Like the defense penalty matter against ai ...

With the chance of multiple promos the supermans get even more super. Both penalties are just so minor compared to the good ones ...
 
Because a random roll between a "superman" promotion and a unit I can't use isn't fun? A much better alternative would have each promotion have a benefit and a penalty. You'd always get a unit useful for something, not two separate classes of units, supermen and losermen.
 
As someone who played WoW for 6 years competitively in cutting edge guilds I feel like adding my 2 cents. People complain over and over again on forums about this class being overpowered and this class being underpowered (as an example these teo classes relied heavily on burst and cds...demo warlock vs arcane Mage right after bc iirc) until devs begin to over homogenize all classes. Then those same people are upset when over time their 19 last all get boring because its like they're playing all the same too. With different animation. Embrace diversity or don't. But don't call for changes just because it doesn't suit your personal playstyle
 
You can get 6 insanely good, 1 slightly bad and 1 really bad one. Odds seem great for kris mans i think i will try this civ now!

I love the random element and i still miss those random events civ4 had or the mod communitas has( althou i would never play with a mod ebcause they make turn times 2x as long)
 
The problem with this 8 swordsman = 6 good ones and 2 bad ones argument is, that you could also get only 3 good ones and 5 bad ones for e.g (on a slightly bad day). Then that game is ed. At the time you're building the swordsman it's a key unit - for e.g. you got 5 bowman and 2 swordsman for an assault ready - Now you mustn't have bad luck with any of these swordsman otherwise the game is very likely ruined.
 
It is not 2 in 8 are useless - the ppl saying that just can't adapt to it.

Enemy Blade: Takes 20 damage if the unit ends its turn in enemy territory
NOT useless! You test your ability before starting an invasion and then just leave that guy at home. You need a few units to protect your cities and other borders anyway.

Evil Spirits: -10% penalty when attacking. -30% penalty when defending
This is the only really bad one and thats 1 in 8. And even that one can be used as cannon fodder or for front/flank attack purpose.
Move it in front of an enemy city to taunt its ranged attack.
Use it for flanking bonus. Use it attacking archers or killing wounded enemies.
It potentially won't survive but you don't want it to. You are loosing some units in a real war anyway just let it be these ones.
If you say you never loose units in wars I say play higher difficulty.
 
The Kris is possibly the best UU in the game, and people are whining about it? If you get a bad promo, just disband the unit and recycle the iron. What with all the money you should be getting in with the extra resource diversity, it'll be easy.
 
Because a random roll between a "superman" promotion and a unit I can't use isn't fun
Click to expand...
Posts like this are just ...

How in hell d a unit having a penalty in a small era d be unuseable?
 
I usually don't build many swords, but i like the concept of the random promotions, and some are really powerful.
Usually you have a few elite units that you try to keep alive during the ages, and a few that may be sacrificed for the greater good. With the random system you can get some really nice extra powers for your elite units, fine by me.
 
Did anybody notice what happens when you gift a kris swordsman to a city state? I swear the one I gifted with a crappy promotion rerolled to a good one.
 
andrewlt said:
Did anybody notice what happens when you gift a kris swordsman to a city state? I swear the one I gifted with a crappy promotion rerolled to a good one.
Click to expand...
when you use the CS screen when gifting units to CS all its earned promotion are removed, but when you let that unit walk in their land and do the Gift unit in the Unit's additional option its earned Promotion will not be removed.
 
You don't even have to not play as Indonesia—you can play as Indonesia and not build Kris Swordsmen. Focus on the other side of the tech tree, get Candis and work up to Navigation so you can go settle colonies overseas. The Kris penalties are one quarter (2/8) of one third (UA, UB, UU) of one of the nine civs in the expansion. Not worth all this fuss.

Besides, even if you do get stuck with a bunch of Enemy Blades/Evil Spirits units, just use them as garrison troops. If you opened with Tradition or Honor, you'll want a garrison in every city anyway, and they'll do the job just fine.
 
steveg700 said:
It's certainly important to bear in mind that people will always complain. However, it's also important that all the "people" you refer aren't actually part of one big,aggregate complaining about things that contradict each other. Also worth noting is that there are also people who will always leap at the chance contrarian (kindly referred to as "devil's advocates").

It's not that low of a chance, and more to the point--why should there be any chance that a unique unit will wind up with a penalty? If there was some give-and-take, some risk-and-reward mechanic behind determining how good or bad the ability gained is, that would be one thing. But a totally random reward or punishment is pretty unappealing design.

Btw, complaining in a reasonable fashion is pretty healthy. It lets people when something's wrong and fuels discussion on how to fix it.
Click to expand...

Some other UUs also have penalties. No? Let's look at Carthagian African Forest Elephant. It costs 33% more & has 1 less movement. I think these are trade offs in unique attributes mechanism. Similarly Egyptian UB double the plunder for enemies conquering that city.

Personally I am fine with such little cons for units. But I think Kris could be changed slightly so you don't get 2 bad promo in a row. What do you think?

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 
Cyberian said:
It is not 2 in 8 are useless - the ppl saying that just can't adapt to it.

Enemy Blade: Takes 20 damage if the unit ends its turn in enemy territory
NOT useless! You test your ability before starting an invasion and then just leave that guy at home. You need a few units to protect your cities and other borders anyway.

Evil Spirits: -10% penalty when attacking. -30% penalty when defending
This is the only really bad one and thats 1 in 8. And even that one can be used as cannon fodder or for front/flank attack purpose.
Move it in front of an enemy city to taunt its ranged attack.
Use it for flanking bonus. Use it attacking archers or killing wounded enemies.
It potentially won't survive but you don't want it to. You are loosing some units in a real war anyway just let it be these ones.
If you say you never loose units in wars I say play higher difficulty.
Click to expand...

That is what I was trying to point out in my earlier posts. And even the evil spirit promo can be somewhat covered up, just use these promo guys as city garrison where they can't be attacked. This leaves them with a small - 10% attack penalty which is pretty small compared to the BIG Godly promos they get otherwise.

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 
Guardian_PL said:
Guys, please stop moaning, other abilities are godlike so I have no problem with one bad among eight others (as Eagle Pursuit noticed Enemy Blade is fine when used within your borders).

Indonesia is strong.
Click to expand...

I as well don't think, one single really bad promotion breaks the kris swordsmen. Its a gamble for sure. But without any bad possibilities, why would you be thrilled and cheerful if you got lucky?

However, I could see a possible 'solution' - if any is needed:
What, if kris swordsmen with 'evil spirits'-promotion are so ashamed about their unworthy blades, that they refuse to take money for their service? Translated into CiV-terminology: you don't pay upkeep for units with this promotion.

This could make keeping them a little bit more worthwhile. You could go even further and remove the iron consumption from these units. But this might turn a negative promotion into a positive one, so maybe this is actually too much.
 
rhaak said:
Can't you just NOT play as Indonesia ? Problem solved....
Click to expand...

I totally agree. I really don't understand why stupid people are complaining. I the game doesn't suit you, you can still mod it...

Moderator Action: Referring to other posters as stupid is trolling. Please find more civil ways to say it.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
I would like to point out that the Heroism promotion's Great General bonus self-applies to the unit. So it is automatically as strong as a Pikeman.
 
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