World Wonders Go Quick!

docbud · May 12, 2016

How fast are these thing built (world wonders)? King level.

I WAS playing as Babylon. Great start--next to mountain and river, and five salt. Great start.

Great Library was built by turn 30. Temple of Artemis turn 35. Great Wall on turn 42. Turn 48 Hanging Gardens was built...But not by me.

Maybe Egypt was in the game (and I hadn't met him yet)? But still--I even hit a ruin for writing and still lost GL on turn 30. I could see turn 40 or something, but turn 30 on king level? And the other wonders gone so quickly?

I always do badly when playing as Babylon--it seems that though Babylon gets great sciene stuff I get screwed in other areas. I have never won as Babylon.

On a previous game (which I also rage quit), Oracle was gone by turn 50 or something like that.

Is it just me or is Babylon cursed?

I'm guessing just me.

Acken · May 12, 2016

Quick speed I guess ?

docbud · May 12, 2016

^^No--standard.

I've never seen anything like it. It was like the civilization Gods were against me or somethig. I've never had a game like that.

And apologies--I should have said it was standard--I forgot.

Sclb · May 13, 2016

Interesting that these times are deity times.

stormtrooper412 · May 13, 2016

Can we get turn0 save

docbud · May 13, 2016

^^I already trashed the file. I didn't change any settings and it was king level, like I usually play.

I think I already emptied the trash, but I'll check my computer when I get home tonight.

Maybe it was just one of those weird things. I know I was like "what the heck is going on?"

Kriogen · May 13, 2016

If it helps:
- AI is as smart on Prince as is on Deity
- on above Prince Ai gets bonus for just about everything
- this "bonus" means that even if AI gets flat and empty tundra its like it would get Salt. So-so land looks like Spain with Lake Victoria+Solomons mine on every tile.
- on a good day (or bad for you) AI can get good dirt. Flood plains with Weat plus nice hills for hammer, river, hills ... the good stuff. If on top of that its not-warmonger civ that would just want to build units (or peity fanatcis that just builds prophets, etc..), but lets say Hiawatha (likes to build good cities and lots of them), you can get a diety like challange even on King.

Diety is always hard because AI always gets "perfect" dirt (because of huge bonus). But perfect dirt can exists even on Prince.

How I got to this: I started Prince, opened IGE and give AI "the good stuff" everywhere. Me as usual, AI (with IGE) gets best of the best. Prince diff. jumped to Immortal/Deity.

Question: was there Hiawatha or Cassimir on the map? In general not-Peity or extreme warmongers. Those "in the middle", those that usualy like to build, expand, not really specialize in specific direction. Generic, middle ground.

docbud · May 13, 2016

^^Thanks.

I'm not sure if Hiawatha or Cassimir was on the map. I had only met a few civs (I think Russia and Arabia).

But it wasn't them. It was an unknown civ who was building things like crazy.

I've never had a game like that.

Kriogen · May 13, 2016

docbud said:
...
I've never had a game like that.

I did. It was a while go. King or Emperor.

In one case it was Hiawatha. He go nice plains with weat and horses and rivers and hills and ...

In another it was Spain (desert hills, flood plains and salt on top of that) combined with Persia (nice mix of plains, weat, rivers and hills). I, on the other hand got slow jungle and Shaka. Impis on every tile are the worse

docbud · May 13, 2016

^^Wow--I've had games where ToA went quickly or Oracle, but not as fast as that.

I guess it was one of those games

It was frustrating, as I'm sure you well know.

adsin15 · May 13, 2016

If Egypt was on the map and they had a marble start and went Tradition...

Egypt could have built all those wonders itself with those times.

docbud · May 13, 2016

^^I thought of that--but those build times were ridiculous. Especially on King. And I had a great salt start and popped a ruin for the writing tech.

And look at the turn times between wonders.

@stormstrooper: I checked and I don't have the save zero file nor any earlier files of that game. Next time (but hopefully there won't be a next time)--I will save the files and not trash out of frustration.

Sclb · May 13, 2016

I don't think they're the same civ that built all of them, as 5 turns between wonders is extremely fast and really only possible with Egypt or insane start. It would be easy to check if you have IGE and I would if there is a save file. Many people forget this, but AI don't get bonuses to building wonders on any difficulty. They only get production bonus to other things and a growth bonus, and maybe free workers and free settler on deity.

danaphanous · May 14, 2016

that is pretty typical on Deity, especially with land space like Pangaea, however, on King that is incredibly rare! What bad luck!

vadalaz · May 14, 2016

Sclb said:
I don't think they're the same civ that built all of them, as 5 turns between wonders is extremely fast and really only possible with Egypt or insane start. It would be easy to check if you have IGE and I would if there is a save file. Many people forget this, but AI don't get bonuses to building wonders on any difficulty.

They don't get a production bonus, but I'm pretty sure the cost of wonders is slightly reduced for the AIs, at least on Deity. I remember noticing that when I had a spy in someone's capital.

docbud · May 14, 2016

@danaphanous: Bad luck is an understatement!

Acken · May 14, 2016

vadalaz said:
They don't get a production bonus, but I'm pretty sure the cost of wonders is slightly reduced for the AIs, at least on Deity. I remember noticing that when I had a spy in someone's capital.

Yes.

The game has two forms of bonuses in general. Raw bonuses and bonuses per era.

I'm certain the AI do not get its 50% build raw reduction bonus cost for wonders but it gets the bonus per era. It is 5% per era.

So if someone wants to check, an AI in classical era should only have to do 95% of the wonder cost.

Here is the code part for building cost relevant to the special case of AI:

Code:

	if(!isHuman() && !IsAITeammateOfHuman() && !isBarbarian())
	{
		if(isWorldWonderClass(pkBuildingInfo->GetBuildingClassInfo()))
		{
			iProductionNeeded *= GC.getGame().getHandicapInfo().getAIWorldConstructPercent();
			iProductionNeeded /= 100;
		}
		else
		{
			iProductionNeeded *= GC.getGame().getHandicapInfo().getAIConstructPercent();
			iProductionNeeded /= 100;
		}

		iProductionNeeded *= std::max(0, ((GC.getGame().getHandicapInfo().getAIPerEraModifier() * GetCurrentEra()) + 100));
		iProductionNeeded /= 100;
	}

In simple words:
1. Check if civ is an AI
2. Check if the building is a wonder
2.a If it is a wonder apply the wonder bonus
2.b if not a wonder apply the building bonus
3. Apply the per era bonus

The wonder bonus AIWorldConstructPercent is set at 100% so the AI get no bonus. But step 3 still applies the AIPerEraModifier bonus regardless of whether or not its a wonder. This bonus is -5% on deity (per era above ancient)).

Trackmaster · May 24, 2016

Yeah, I think that's why it's so hard to win the culture victory, and why domination is so easy. With culture, you have to wonder whore, and with domination, wonders are a waste of time because you'll just steal them anyway.

World Wonders Go Quick!

docbud

Emperor

Acken

Deity

docbud

Emperor

Sclb

Emperor

stormtrooper412

Peacemongering Turtlesaur

docbud

Emperor

Kriogen

Warlord

docbud

Emperor

Kriogen

Warlord

docbud

Emperor

adsin15

Warlord

docbud

Emperor

Sclb

Emperor

danaphanous

religious fanatic

vadalaz

Emperor

docbud

Emperor

Acken

Deity

Trackmaster

Warlord

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