Gotm17-Carthage Pregame Discussion

This month we are going to try a new concept of releasing the game announcement and set up instructions to all the players a few days in advance of when the starting save game will be available for you to play.

It is not possible for you to begin play at this time but you can strategize together about what you think you would do in the game.

This process should allow all the players to look over the setup instructions for the game and discuss what they think these instructions mean without the risk of any real spoiler information. Since none of the players will be able to start the game, essentially all you will have available to support your discussion will be past GOTM results and strategy articles.

The rules for participation in this discussion thread are simple:

1) read the game announcement and get yourself set up to play the game when the save game is released to you.

2) there are some features in the game announcement that relate to barbarian surprises that many players will not what to have revealed to them here. Respect your peers and minimize the discussion of any of the barbarian information that is revealed to you after the initial information section on the barbarian annoucement page. Do not post screen shots of the new barbarian features in this thread, but you can say "Gee willikers" or "Oh my gosh" etc.

3) Once you download the starting save game file and open it to begin play you may no longer participate in this discussion thread.

I plan to leave this thread open to support pregame discussion for any players who have not yet opened the starting save game file but if we have any players who violate this rule the discussion will be closed.

There is a great deal going on inside and around this month's game, but at the core of the process the game is simple and fun. Read the instructions and you will have a good time.

Be warned also that the game has a total of 15 civilizations in the setup if you count all the real civs plus the barbarians. Play turn transitions starts off a bit slow on most machines because of how the software deals with these civilizations initially. The lag time smooths out as the game progresses and you get a bit more advanced in time. Be patient and use those extra few seconds to think about what you are doing in the game and perhaps give some thought to things you would like to discuss with players when the first spoiler discussion opens on March 5th.

The first spoiler discussion will require you to have possession of complete knowledge of a very specific section of the map and will be totally limited to information within that map area. Since this is an archipelago map, the required full knowledge section includes all of your starting archipelago landmass group how ever large of small that may be.

Here is your link to the

Game Announcement Page for Gotm17-Carthage

Good luck to all you intrepid Libyphoenicians in your efforts to discover and rule your world.

This thread is a great idea. On last month's game I spent a while thinking about the game based upon the info provided and it's nice to be able to talk about it.

Based upon reading the Game Announcement, I'm considering moving the first settler to the lake or sea. The Carthaginians were known for shipping.

Sucks that ancient units won't upgrade. I was looking forward to taking advantage of the PTW ability to uprgrade swordsmen. I'll probably deal with it, by focusing on building in the beginning and science in the beginning. I'll try to build few units until the next age and go for Chivalry and then build a bunch of Knights. I'll want to build a galley ASAP for exploring.

Looked over everything, and this looks like it will be a very fun and interesting game. I cannot wait.

Just last night I was thinking I need to move off of Regent finally. I was wasting everyone in score by 800AD (I have 900 points, whereas the closest rival has 450 or so).

I think I will also move one square closer to the shoreline, to get on the coast. I will probably move in between all those shield grass squares, so I can take full advantage of all of them. This capital city should be able to crank out some serious wonders with that positioning.

Of course, my first goal will be to get total control of my own island, then move on to the others.

Get to Map Making ASAP, so I can get galleys out into the waters to find the other islands and/or die at the hands of the stuff in the seas.

Perhaps building a harbor first may be a good idea.

Now, to decide to use either PTW or regular Civ.

EDIT: Removed mention of something. My bad!

First off I'll start with a big, Gee willikers!

Like RufRyder said it's obviously a good idea to familiarize yourself to the scope and changes before the savegame is availiable. I'll stress that it's important to read everything carefully before you start. Having played 100 rounds only to find the game locking up because you didn't follow the instructions is a waste. I messed up myself on a testgame we ran last week for GOTM17 on a simple unitart install. So read every line carefully and be confident that you sorted everything out, knowing Cracker the instruction should be very fool-proof.

Back to the topic. I agree that the unshielded grasstile by the sea(or lake??) looks attractive as a starting position. I'm squinting at the start tile, is that a hill the settler stands on, or is it just the settlers shadow?

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Removed mentioning of Nightfangs edited text

I was also thinking about moving the settler east on the first move, but I don't know. If I build the city on the hill, I will gain one food on the hill but lose one food on salt water so there is no food loss (or gain) anyway. A good reason to move east though, is to get a coastal city and build lighthouse or colussus there (or both.)

Regent difficulty sounds easy, but I suspect it will be quite difficult still. If the island is small and no other civ is there, then it will take alot of time to attack the other civs. Galleys cost alot of production (and people?).

Hats of to Cracker once again for a great game presentation...

And then, yeah, let wild discussions be started!

I think I will also found Carthage on the shore. The starting tile does look like a hill, btw. Moreover, there seems (just seems though) to be another shoreline beyond the mountain to the SW, and maybe a river to the W.
I think I'll use the fist worker move to give a look from one mountain top...

If this turns out to be a super-small island (and I wouldn't be suprised...) then I might go for super-tight city placement.

The sea is likely to be "sea", if the map is 83% water. Then again, knowing who's behind the map doesn't make me feel sure of anything!

Just one thing: what will "regionally enhanced" mean, referred to the world Geology?

Originally posted by Karasu


Just one thing: what will "regionally enhanced" mean, referred to the world Geology?

Click to expand...

I hope it doesn't mean a line of mountains cutting the map in half. (Where have we seen THAT before? )

BTW, I'm really looking forward to using PTW and to no more milking! It's a big map, but without the milking it'll go faster.

Woohoo, Regent level!

Actually I was planning to give anything below deity a whirl, but now I have a chance of actually winning. (Granted, just a *chance*. )

I think I'm going to take this opportunity to break my copy of PTW out of the cellophane, so it'll be my first game with that, probably.

The special features mentioned on the website look like a blast - I'm looking forward to this! Just one comment on the start position - if that's actual sea as opposed to a lake, I'm definitely moving the settler. (Actually I'd move it even if it is a lake for the fresh-water bonus.) That site will be great production for going for the Lighthouse early, which may very well be critical. I actually enjoy conquest/domination on archipelagos, since defense of the conquered territory is so easy; I may go for that if I don't fall too far behind in tech.

Renata - best-laid plans and all that

Originally posted by RufRydyr

I hope it doesn't mean a line of mountains cutting the map in half. (Where have we seen THAT before? )

Click to expand...

Well, it may well be a twenty tiles-thick mountain range surrounding your island in all directions while, of course, all other 150 civs are happily trading techs and luxuries with one another...

Now, that may add some depth to the concept of "isolated"...

I think I'll also use my worker to take a look on top of the mountain. I think there's a river there, and that river has to end somewhere, the only question is "How far is the shoreline?" Looking at the starting position, it seems that cracker has once again excelled in the creation of the map. Looking at the historic placing of Carthage, the mountains may very well represent the eastern end of the Atlas Mountains. We will of course try to keep a logbook as Hanno did, perhaps we'll even have to say "Gee willikers" as we run into to some of crackers creations.

Keep up the great work cracker. Your creations have lifted Civ III to yet another (higher ) level.

Greetings to everybody and happy civing,

Jurimax

Unfortunately can’t access the announcement page (home server restrictions) but given the facts that I know: regent, archipelago, large map 83% water I would guess the following (I’ve been wrong before so beware):
I am alone on a medium island. Probably need mapmaking to make first contact, Lighthouse for another one or two and navigation for full knowledge of civs.
So full research to Pottery (to expand fast the island). Then full research to Mapmaking with prebuild for Lighthouse in the second, third town. The capital on the shore and at least one other early city on the shore to fuel fast galley production. Then find another civ ASAP, with medium to full research on an advanced tech that they probably don’t have. Trade with AI for early techs that I never bothered to research and rethink strategy afterwards.

Regent means you got the advantage over the AI. So you really got to take this advantage and crush the AI. Consequently I will go the warmonger way and as soon as I meet an AI start the invasion force. I have to get the first one before they get culture so that I will be able to keep the cities I conquer. Then ‘Veni – Vidi – Vici’ until either Domination or Conquest (yet to decide).

I’m looking forward to hear more ideas from you.

I don't have PTW yet--I might have it by game start!--so I don't know if Carthage has a Scout. If so, HE will be abig help in determining where the first city gets founded.

Failing a Scout, even moving the Worker first will help make up my mind--but the whole point of them being sea-farers seems to be a pretty big tip-off!

Great strat so far Yndy, I'll see how the actual game turns out, and if need be, might actually 'copy' parts and bits of your strat. I also think that a lot of the QSC's will be very similar. Anyway, I'll try to have a different QSC...
(I don't know how, but I'll give it a try...)

Just want to give my thanks to Cracker, and any other persons who may have had a hand in it, for creating a way for us, on the mac-platform, to take part. Thanks to Txurce, and other mac users, for taking the time to play-test the technical & game-play issues. We're very excited.

Re: pre-game thoughts. That does look like a nice tile just to the right of the settler. We're probably on a small island w/ another one just to the right. Obviously, the Lighthouse and Magellan's are going to be sought after GWs. Also, a beeline to galleys is probably what I'll be shooting for right away. Seeking polite relationships in the early stages could benefit your total world knowledge.

Nicely done! I have only one tiny question. I don't understand this following feature:

Upgrade Ancient Age Offensive Units: OFF

Click to expand...

What offensive units are we talking about here?

I think cracker means the upgrades that are available in PTW, the upgrade paths to Mace and Rambo.

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Nicely done! I have only one tiny question. I don't understand this following feature:



What offensive units are we talking about here?

Click to expand...

I think (correct me if I am wrong) that it refers to the upgrade path that PTW put in for warrior>swordsman>MDI>guerilla.

Since I was at the GOTM page, I clicked on the Global Ranking button--it's all in the new format and boy was I surprised where I placed!

I'm 33rd--but so is Eman above me--which must mean I'm 34th and the liist needs reworking. That's WAY better than I really am, but I guess since I've played the games and submitted the QSCs it's added up...but with all the new players who have come in I don't stand much of a chance of holding on to such a lofty perch.

BUT...

There's NO WAY I'm better than you, Cracker, at 36th! It's a damn shame that you can't play the games you've created for us either because you have to disqualify yourself or because you simply have no time left to play...

I know you must get tired of hearing this but your work on the GOTM is really, REALLY appreciated!

Moonsinger,

That preference only applies to the availability of the "Mace and Rambo" units (Medieval Infantry and Guerrilla) that were added in PTW. These two units effectively eliminate the need to make some of the tougher early strategy choices by making it possible to upgrade all warriors, swordsmen, archers, and longbows all the way up to the Rambo unit if the preferrence is turned on.

All of the uprade paths that yo umay be used to from Civ3v1.29f remain unchanged.

"Mace and Rambo" are turned off in Gotm17 and Gotm18 because the initial testing indicates that the presence of these features reduces the difficulty of the games by at least 1/2 a step. Basically Regent would be reduced in difficulty to be almost Warlord if this preference where on and the Macae and Rambo units were included in the single player game.

As cartaghian you start with alphabet and masonry. So getting to mapmaking shouldn't be too hard before any of the other civs get there, that's not counting the possibilities that other civs get contact without having to make a gallei.

The question is what tech you go for after mapmaking. You could either run the gauntlet of war with zero tech and mass upgrade Swordsmen for a very early invasion of closest continent, or you could keep researching to currency through maths. Either way you'll not be able to go for the monarchy tree untill you meet someone to trade you the basic techs there. I would defintly not go for literacy at least. GL at Regent difficulty is pretty much wasted, at least after you've spent all your early shields on Lighthouse and galleis. So mapmaking, then maths will probably be my early tech route - with a conservative science % on math research.

Like Karasy said, close citybuild will probably help get an early edge as well.