Worst Civ?

Lanzelot · Apr 3, 2015

Atishay Jain said:
For a fast Conquest, I'll prefer Aztecs with their ultra cheap uu and it's extra movement. Next is Persia with the strong immortals and then the celts with the galactic swordsman.

Even better than Immortals or Gallic Swordsmen are Mounted Warriors!
And for ultra-early military action, the Egyptian Chariot isn't bad either...

But I agree: why would you need "fast spearmen" for early quick victories? You need attackers, not defenders. The Impi may be good, if you play on Sid and need some cover for your attackers, though.

dgfred · Apr 7, 2015

As long as you have a corral

.

Iron for the first two. Bad when you have to take it first.

daft · Apr 8, 2015

Got to say China has always been good for me, when it comes to doing well in the game.

darski · Apr 9, 2015

I have to say that I find Portugal to be the worst/hardest Civ to play.

When I played my "Play Every Civ in Alphabetical Order" I thought I would never get past playing Portugal. I finally went to a tiny continents map with the least land possible. By counting on the usual land suspects (aka: swordsmen) I was able to get a domination victory and move on to the 'good' civs. It really was a challenge to just get them played and move on.

I admit that I am not a good player but I can play the game eventually. Portugal is a real challenge.

daft · Apr 9, 2015

Rome should have been made Industrious instead of commercial, China commercial instead of Industrious. Big gaffe by the designers.

HardCode · Apr 13, 2015

daft said:
Rome should have been made Industrious instead of commercial, China commercial instead of Industrious. Big gaffe by the designers.

This is easy enough to fix in the editor. Just uncheck the one trait and check the other for both civs.

justanick · Apr 13, 2015

The free techs masonry and alphabet change be swapped, too.

Zwischenzug · Apr 15, 2015

darski said:
I have to say that I find Portugal to be the worst/hardest Civ to play.

I noticed that the Portuguese are catching quite a lot of flak around here (I believe Ision also rated them as the worst Civ of the game). I will have to do a review on them quite soon, because I think that they actually have a pretty decent play. Granted, the UU is crap, but they are possibly the best technology broker in the game. They're absolutely abysmal at war, but they have so much gold and techs to float around that they can usually keep the bad guys off their back - or bribe the rest of the world into the war on their side

I've always had fun games when I played them, and even considered them overpowered at a time (if they had a decent UU, they definitely would be).

justanick · Apr 15, 2015

Zwischenzug said:
Granted, the UU is crap,

If colonizing new worlds is a priority it is rather useful. If there are many civs at the map, there will not be many new worlds. But reduce the amount of civs to a bare minimum and increase water to 80%, and you will learn to love the UU at huge maps.

walletta · Apr 16, 2015

Excuse me, but what is it about the Portugals that makes them good at technology brokerage?

shl7070 · Apr 16, 2015

Zwischenzug said:
I noticed that the Portuguese are catching quite a lot of flak around here (I believe Ision also rated it as the worst Civ of the game). I will have to do a review on them quite soon, because I think that they actually have a pretty decent play. Granted, the UU is crap, but they are possibly the best technology broker in the game. They're absolutely abysmal at war, but they have so much gold and techs to float around that they can usually keep the bad guys off their back - or bribe the rest of the world into the war on their side I've always had fun games when I played them, and even considered them overpowered at a time (if they had a decent UU, they definitely would be).

They got a lot of flak for a good reason. Now playing them on Pangaea (thanks RNG...) and not seeing the fun. I'd tried to pull ahead in tech (Monarch difficulty) and the result was the worst of any civ I remember. I had to make strange plans to get GA like wasting SGL to build Magellans voyage on Pangaea (finding stray galley to sink with Dromon is possible but sinking Caravels with a Carrack is harder I just got lucky with that), needed a return to artillery stacks tactics to win (no significant IA tech lead means arty is the only way to conquer cities). It felt like an Emperor game.

justanick · Apr 16, 2015

walletta said:
Excuse me, but what is it about the Portugals that makes them good at technology brokerage?

Seafaring and EXP both are good for getting contacts soon. Further EXP help with techs from huts, so Portugal will also have the required merchandise aswell.

walletta · Apr 16, 2015

justanick said:
Seafaring and EXP both are good for getting contacts soon. Further EXP help with techs from huts, so Portugal will also have the required merchandise aswell.

Ah,OK, thanks. I was wondering if they had some secret quality I didnt know about.

Lanzelot · Apr 16, 2015

shl7070 said:
They got a lot of flak for a good reason. Now playing them on Pangaea (thanks RNG...) and not seeing the fun. I'd tried to pull ahead in tech (Monarch difficulty) and the result was the worst of any civ I remember.

Can you post the start save? Even on Pangea Seafaring should be strong, because two early 3-movement curraghs will give you many early contacts.

PS: I want to add one reason why I think that Portugal definitely is not the "worst" Civ: it is one of the few Civs that start with the "perfect" combination of starting techs: Alphabet and Pottery. (The only other civs with that tech combination are the Netherlands, England, the Iroquois and the Hittites.)
- Pottery is most useful, because of granaries.
- And Alphabet is the most expensive starting tech, so not having to research it yourself saves you a lot of beakers. It also allows you to start Writing on turn 0, so the Republic Slingshot has a good chance of succeeding even on high difficulty levels like Deity (provided a good start position).

Buttercup · Apr 16, 2015

Portugal is a weird one indeed. I tried them once or twice on an Archipelago and they were ok. Just ok though. The main problem was that they were just... too boring. I couldn't be bothered to finish any of the games. I can't really explain it, just boring.

Getting early techs free from exploring is all well and good, but for the rest of the game it feels like a boring slog. Having said that, whenever they're on a map being played by the AI they always seem to be one of the top 5 Civs, hence why I tried them a few times. :dunno:

Theov · Apr 16, 2015

Lanzelot said:
Can you post the start save? Even on Pangea Seafaring should be strong, because two early 3-movement curraghs will give you many early contacts.

PS: I want to add one reason why I think that Portugal definitely is not the "worst" Civ: it is one of the few Civs that start with the "perfect" combination of starting techs: Alphabet and Pottery. (The only other civs with that tech combination are the Netherlands, England, the Iroquois and the Hittites.)
- Pottery is most useful, because of granaries.
- And Alphabet is the most expensive starting tech, so not having to research it yourself saves you a lot of beakers. It also allows you to start Writing on turn 0, so the Republic Slingshot has a good chance of succeeding even on high difficulty levels like Deity (provided a good start position).

I agree with this, as I think Alphabet is the strongest starting Tech for the reason above.
Starting with Warrior Code is in my opinion not even wanted, because it skips the cheap warrior unit. Sure, the guy will do nothing for you empire until he's upgraded, but the best thing about him, is that he's cheap.
So only if you are expansionist (scouts) then starting with Warrior Code is nice. I love being Militaristic, by the way, but that's for another discussion.

And the Portugese allow you to travel the oceans sooner and faster. Which is a major +.
Maybe this is not the case on Pangea maps...

daft · Apr 16, 2015

I've had trouble winning as India.
Agricultural is an excellent trait.

Lanzelot · Apr 17, 2015

Buttercup said:
Portugal is a weird one indeed.

Yep, that's right. They are not really bad, but not really good either. The main problem perhaps is, that they are very difficult to play. You have to do unusual/non-intuitive things, if you want to play to their strengths. Most people are at a loss at what to do with them, so they end up "misplaying" them and get a bad game. :think:

walletta · Apr 17, 2015

I find if I get early techs through exploration, the other Civs pretty quickly start threatening me for them. Same with money. Is it a good idea not to try too hard to cling on to these early gains?

justanick · Apr 17, 2015

That depends on what exactly too hard is. Imo there is no point in avoiding gain. There are different alternatives what you can do with it. You can trade it away, that is a clear win win sitiuation. Or you can hope they declare war on you or you can avoid being threatened in the first place by being powerful. If you are not powerful you might also consider to give it away as a gift. That kind of bribery might help to not get attacked till AI fight off each other. They best way to not get attacked is often to let other civs be attacked instead.

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