SGOTM 13 - TNT thread

As I said in the first post of your team thread, please subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game. This thread is where we exchange non-spoiler information, announcements and updates concerning the game. The first post in that thread contains the definitive game description for this competition and the timetable. FYI, the start saves will be available at 06:00 UTC/GMT on Friday morning 25 February. It's up to you when you decide to download the save and start playing, of course.
 
i would like to have the warrior moved ASAP!

Who can tkae care of it and make a screenshot?

BTW screenshots are easiest to do in "windowed mode" that helps against the black screen problem.
 
Well I guess it's time to start the nitty-gritty of the organizing such as figuring out a turn order and figuring out how long every turnset will be. Plus, of course, figuring out which of our opening strategies to use.

My suggestion is that we start off with Keath and a decent start time in turns (30ish or so) and then slot everyone after that, possibly in a stronger player/weaker player interweaving and lowering the turns as we go.
 
here is a test game that is pretty much like the game

epic, no events huts or vassals, and i did my best to recreate the terrian, have the suggested ai-s and gave lighhouse and GL to cathrine.
 

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I suppose this is the time I should grab the crown, place it on my head and declare myself Emperor. It is rumoured that this is what Napoleon did after he had abandoned his crippled navy in Egypt. He returned to Paris and during the coronation grabbed the crown from the Pope and place it on his own head.

To me this is a nono. :nono: By the time his military campaigns were over, his generals mutinied, and I/we don’t want that scenario. :eek:

Besides, the uniform is too tight, the hat looks silly and there’s this strange pocket in the jacket vest. :lol: ...And if I start walking around declaring I’m Napoleon Bonaparte, well, you know……. :shake:

Seriously, it would be an honour and a privilege to be the team leader. Hopefully we can do better militarily than Napoleon. :D I will try to lead by keeping the flow going and hope that all the team members take an active role in bringing our victory home. If it’s unanimous, I will humbly take the crown. :king:
 
^^ Thank you. :high5:
I know everyone is keen to see the warrior move onto the hill and have a peek at any resources for a second city. But with a six tile island, I can’t think of a single reason why we would move the settler and abandon the chance for a second island city. Therefore, I propose that we hold off opening the save until at least Monday.

For now, please don’t download the original save file. With as many as 11 players, there is always a chance that someone makes an unplanned mouse click.

In general, if such a thing happens or you inadvertently open another team’s thread; you must pm (personal message) AlanH and hope the problem can be resolved. It happens, even with the most experienced players.

We have a lot of organization to do, as Windfury stated:

Well I guess it's time to start the nitty-gritty of the organizing such as figuring out a turn order and figuring out how long every turnset will be. Plus, of course, figuring out which of our opening strategies to use.

My suggestion is that we start off with Keath and a decent start time in turns (30ish or so) and then slot everyone after that, possibly in a stronger player/weaker player interweaving and lowering the turns as we go.

Roster:
Turnset length:
Strategy:


If you want a great read and a spectacular opening set, Murky Waters in SGOTM_10 virtually won the competition on the first turnset. It is worthwhile downloading the WB file and playing the first set as Klarius did. It is a thing of beauty.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=330083

I suggest we all try out fizbankovi’s test save and post a summary. Thanks, fiz, for the great save.

Team roster:
keath GMT -8
fizbankovi GMT +1
next?
 
Well I'd be happy to go next in the order, and that way we could start weaving the weaker players (ie. me) into the rotation.

I was thinking 30-40 turns for the opening set and then 15-20 turns for the first run through for the rest of us. Or would we prefer to find more organic stopping points like techs finishing or city constructions finished?
 
in every turnset we must define stoping criteria, that is any forseen event we are not sure when it happens.
also any player must have the self averness to stop if something rather unusal or important happens to stop for feedback.

i propose to following:

keath should play first turnset, with a planed length of 30 turns.

then windfurry can come with a little less, and ill follow.

it would be great if heath, and the team dicided ont he opening, becouse we could improve a lot on our opening if we played like 6-7 turns and had the warrior move around a bit.

SIP, put hammers in baracks, eserch fishing and work the corn tile seems like a no brainer. doing that for 6-7 turns. we could have a lot of land scouted...

even starting on a WB , and maximizing hammers at pop 2 seems like the best chance. then we could wait till the boarder pops... and have a good peak at everything. (that is when the actual creative work has to happen.

Also, make sure to make screenshot of the demogrpahics page on the first turn! so we can try to figure out how many capitals are coastal! (important for counquest plans!
 
Edit: Cross post with Fizbankovi ---
Opening Strategy:

1. We need to figure out what the expert play is, quick expansion (REX)? Exploration? Stonehenge for city border pops and extra happy face?? Religion? Oracle for free tech? We should leave no stone unturned.
2. Is there a 'killer wonder' we should get? It is Emperor level so we should be able to get a wonder or two if we want.
3. Is being first to circumnavigate the world a game breaker? One extra ship movement is huge!
4. Besides a beeline to Astronomy, what techs do we need to research?
5. I hope you all agree that we don't want to build anything that is not essential - always the minimum that will work. Why have six, when two will do?

It's discuss and debate time.....
The fun begins..... :thumbsup:
 
from the masters: "Erkon, you haven't defined turnset lengths. In the past I think for epic it's been 20-15-10-10-10... "
 
if this needs more discussion im happy to take part, but as a quick reply i would say:

stonhenge, early relligion - No
oracle - definitly an option, but only if we dont sacrifice too much for it. i would go for code of laws from it.
circumanivagte YES! is must have if we discover that enemy capitols are mostly coastal. but Maybie map will be more land...
drama and 6 cites are needed ASAP to get the most out of our 4 food capitol
(globe theater)
my weopon of choice for our first great war would be macemen+trebuthets in galleons, or rifles and cannons in galleons. (techs accordingly)
communism+state property with worshops are great on see have maps
great library seems a good choice if we want to bulb education and astronomy.
currency is high priority on ths maps. the trade routes count a lot!

thats all for now.

im kinda flooding this thread, sorry, i have no former expiriance how to do this..
 
rex= a lot of cites, having slavery and using overflow to go into the hanging gardens could help develope our early cites a lot. our capitol will need health anyway, to allow for high population if we dicide to go for globe theater.
I definitly think the hanging gardens are underrated...
 
Good stuff, fiz!

What about a worker build to start? At first I thought this was bad because there isn't that much for the worker to do - 1 farm, a couple of roads, one mine, then a forest chop after BW. It means a lot of wasted worker turns but, a warrior build only gives us a lookout and MP for a second city. The worker can be a lookout, too.

Besides, during the first several turns, as fizbank notes, there is only the corn for a citizen to work. I'll post a typical PPP for the first 30 turns and then using the test save, do a writeup of those 30 turns. Someone should try:
1 (worker first - Keath)
2 warrior first
3 barracks first
4 Settler first

Opening tech? Fishing seems most important to start getting workboats out for exploration and circumnavigation. Depending on what we build first, the next tech could be one of Myst/Sailing/Mining

A lot depends on who the AI are. Windfury, do you have a list of all the European AI and the dates they were active? It would be good to post a list of all the possible AI and their traits so we know who we might meet.

Fiz, I agree about SH. The culture benefit is nice but we probably won't build monuments for culture pop anyway. By then we'll have Library. The Oracle is always good, though. We'll need to figure out what Wonders are really worth the effort.
 
The following PPP has been blatantly ripped off from Murky Waters and adapted to our first turns. It's pretty basic. We can use this as a plan and tailor it to our needs. Did I miss anything?

TNT Pre-Play-Plan 4000bc -


Pre-Play-Plan OVERVIEW
Settle capitol in place, build worker then fish boats, research Fishing, explore,
-------
BUILD QUEUE
worker/fish boat/fish boat/
-------
UNIT MOVES
Warrior goes to Plains Hill then stop and post screenshot.
-------
WORKER ACTIONS
farm corn/road corn/road PH/mine hill to north
-------
CITY MM
switch to forest grass at first border pop.
-------
DIPLOMATIC ACTIONS
meet AI
Fortify warrior as lookout
-------
SEQUENCE
most turns are builds without much extra happening for a while
-------
STOP CRITERIA
If we meet an AI.
If Barbarian shows up.
Hope for - forest growth on island grass. Lots of extra sea resources for second city
-------
OTHERS
Research: Fish/Mining/BW/Sailing
Civic change: none to start - slavery when settler moves to grass hill.
Religion change: none
Cities settled: Capitol in place.
----------
----------

Keath’s Pre-Play-Plan t1-30

OVERVIEW
Settle SIP, build worker, build fish boats, Explore, research fishing/Min/BW, start sailing, (not in this turnset)

BUILD QUEUE
worker-wb-wb-wb-settler (not in this turnset)

UNIT MOVES
warrior explores south plain hill then north to forest grass then plains hill and fortifies. First wb west, second east, third north or south. Goal to find AI and circumnavigate. If worker finds dead end - return to capitol to net clams.

WORKER ACTIONS
as above/ then chop forest for settler and mine PH.

CITY MM
switch to grass forest on first border pop, then work second grass forest, then forest hill when mined. When corn farmed gives +1 food with farm/+6 hammers with 4 pop.

DIPLOMATIC ACTIONS
meet AI

SEQUENCE
n/a

STOP CRITERIA
meet AI

OTHERS
Research: fish/min/BW-sailing
Civic change: slavery
Religion change: none
Cities settled: SIP
-------------------------------------
Let's discuss and improve this PPP for accuracy and strategic plans. We want to collaborate and improve this plan so that every move is correct, every MM included and the player(me in this case) can follow the TEAM's plan exactly.

I think a PPP is key to our success. The active player posts his PPP and the team comments, playing out a test save just as we're doing here. When all is corrected and PPP agreed and re-posted, the player plays his set, stopping if necessary for help and team collaboration. The player keeps notes of the progress, listing all events, moves, etc. Once finished, the Game Turns are posted, the >save< is posted and discussion begins.

It's comforting to know that everyone (or majority) agree with the moves you are making in your turnset. Later I'll post the Turnset for my 'mock' opening set.
 
There are links in the first post of this Maintenance Thread to the general SGOTM Reference Thread, and to the SGOTM Progress and Results page, where you will find your latest save during or after each turn set plus some progress graphs for all the teams.

For new players, and those who have forgotten what they read, here is a reminder of a few key points:

You must have the BUFFY-3.19.03 mod installed in order to open your team's competition saves.

Teams decide who will play each turn set. That player is the "active player" until the turn set is completed. Teams decide how long each turn set will be, and this may vary during the game, depending on how busy each turn is. Typically they may be ten turns, but might reduce to five turns during intense military manoeuvres.

At the end of each turn set, or at any time during it when you want to share the current game state with your team, the active player must upload your latest save here. You must *never* go back to an earlier save and replay any turn or part of a turn. The *only* exception to that is if you experience a crash.

The players who are not playing the current turn set may open the latest team save, but they must not make any irreversible changes while it is open. No unit moves, no changes to diplomacy conditions, no changes to city activity. You can "Look But Don't Touch". This allows you to open previous saves and make screenshots or check a previous status.

To minimise the impact of a crash you *must* have auto-saves set to happen every turn. Then you should be able to reload the latest autosave and replay the moves and decisions you made during the current turn. You should notify me if you have to do this. To do this, edit the ...\My Games\Beyond the Sword\CivilizationIV.ini file using Notepad, change the interval to '1', and save it:

Code:
; Specify the number of turns between autoSaves.  0 means no autosave.
AutoSaveInterval = 1
For the full discussion about opening saves:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=412588#post10247842
 
About "Look But Don't Touch":
It seems that you are allowed to download the active save but you can't do anything that counts as a move! An inadvertent trackpad fumble/mouse click counts! So if you decide to download the opening save, you are not allowed to make any move.

I will post at 10:00pm PST (6:00 GMT) and if there is no problem with the save (ever heard of Custom Assets?) I will move the warrior. If not I'll post what happened.
 
Sorry, I don't have time to properly comment with numbers, but I disagree on two issues until I see more evidence:

1)I think settling on PH is better than settling in place, even with no additional resources on the plains hill.
2)I think researching sailing (and having a lighthouse as the 4th or 5th build -- need to do math to see which -- ) is more important than researching BW.
 
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