SGOTM 13 - TNT thread

On opening the save I have an HOF Mod Error:
Warning: The HOF MOd will be unable to save settings. Games played will NOT be valid for submission to the CivFanatics 'Hall of Fame' (HOF) or 'Game of the Month ... Please use an user account with admin access. etc......
Is there a simple fix?
 
Enlighten me. I created an administrator account, rebooted and logged in to new account, download the file, same thing. I should be able to do it without making a new user, right? I'm on a Mac with Windows 7 in Boot Camp.

Edit: Fiz, if you have the game save, why don't you move the warrior onto the hill and post a screenshot? Then save the file to the server. That way everyone can have a look and I can resolve this glitch.
 
Where are the fish:confused: :p

Edit: added saved game file
 

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plz post a screeny of the demographics, victory, and top 5 cites screens! there is only 1 town settled atm, it is very important information!
 
well, i realy gave a lot of effort to come up with the best opeing possible...

after playing trought countless variants, i found that SIP, WB-WB-WB- Worker- LH and then WB and Settler, or WB and Galley to settler is a very strong opeing. On the other hand, worker first on SIP is just very slightly different, and with my playstlye it works out to be the same like WB first exept the amount of hammers in 1 chop on the plains hill.
I did not have any good results with PH settle. Can you please give it a try and show us what it can achive in 30-40 turns? Maybie im just not exploiting that +1 hammer right.

plz consider that by settling ph we:
-loose 1 clam from capitol big fat cross
-loose one turn to moving
-loose one chopable forest (-30-45 hammers)
-loose 1 health cos we dont have 2 forests in BGFC
-loose the highest hammer value tile, we could use for building WB-s before a mine.
-loose the oportunity to settle a 2nd city on the TSI (tiny Starting Island)

just the chop, and the one turn to move means that we are in a net loss for 33 turns, the +1 hammer just actualy makes our start break even with a SIP hammer wise at that point...

i realy would like Keath to take the question of the starting build in his hand. Im fine with any strategy, and i will do my best to optimize it. but either way i wanna c how the map turns out. Turn 7 is boarder pop baby!

major question:

Are we sure we want to priorize building our 2nd city on grass hil to the easT? maybie rush a galley and start on another island right away!?

Also a theme we havent talked about:

BARBED GALLEYS!

they search and destroy. They can ruin games! (when do they start poping? I want a 2 man group of galleys to defend ASAP! 1 galley is not enough. and im not magic Klarius to somehow manipulate the game script with Workboats blocking to scare away galleys..
 
Hello,

I would say 'YES' to all these strategy ideas.

Can't believe no one has mentioned the ol Colossus as a killer wonder, for all those sea tiles. Metal Casting is an expensive tech. Did I here someone say Oricle? Say what! Course it's nice if you get these wonders rather than miss them by a turn or two, and we don't want to block up our early expansion. (We'll have to fit a galley and myriad workboats into the production queue (maybe one (1) galley will be sufficient for the early start))

I do tend to cottage spam. I do think of them as a good investment in the long run, particularly for commerce cities. In my humble opinion I'd say the plain hills to settle. For one extra move on Epic you have an extra hammer, and it brings another grassland hill into play. As a minus we lose a clam, but maybe that'll be a good spot for our second city? Plus there is the ol' +25% defensive bonus; let us hope to dear god we won't be needing it for our capital!

Ed: just posted secs after Fizbankovi: those are good reasons too. FIGHT!! And oops I forgot about those barb galleys.

Ed Ed: we don't get an extra hill moving (dah), so I now say settle in place. And I like the idea the idea of two cities on our island. Sorry for the confusion.
 
For our opponents I listed all of the Euro Civ's before and which of their leaders was mostly likely as they lived the closest to Nappy's time, it was usually on the order of at least 100 years or so closer, the only exception being the Germans where they were both alive with 25 years of Napoleon, but I think it will be Frederick.

For the opening I like the SIP, and Worker opening, but I'd switch to a WB ASAP. Yes we'll lose a few hammers off the worker before we get around to finishing it, but the faster the WB the better.
 
Just a reminder that the save Napoleon BC-4000 is the real game save.

plz post a screeny of the demographics, victory, and top 5 cites screens! there is only 1 town settled atm, it is very important information!
No demo screen without settled city. This could be the key move - where to settle - so we really need to pause and formulate our plan.

BARBED GALLEYS!
yep! Me, too. By what turn? If we research Sailing only just before we need it, does that keep the barbs from building galleys until then? So Fish/Sail is not the optimum, better Fish/Min/BW then??? Any other ideas?

@ The Dude -- Yes, Colossus could be huge. Actually I mentioned SH, Oracle and Colossus all are on that same research line. Must remember that SH and Colossus are obsoleted by Astronomy, a major goal for our maritime exploits. Test, test, test.....

With our being a new team, and me a newbie team leader, we don't want to make any rash moves. I suggest we don't make another move until we've decided our strategy and how city settlement fits that goal. Everyone should speak up, do a test or two and get a feel for this start. One good thing is we can do a lot of tests quickly and post a summary of builds and tech dates.
 
For me it is clear - SIP, tech fishing while building worker. Stonehenge and even more Colossus are essential.
 
From the game page:

“Note that although the real-life Napoleon was exiled in 1814 AD, this game is a standard 4000BC start in all aspects other than the heavily modified map. Also, your opponents aren't exactly the countries of the sixth coalition - DS admits he took a bit of artistic license!”

A heavily modified map could mean a large landmass for the AI, maybe England on it’s own island?? Therefore historically correct. England, because of being an island with the GLH?? Whoever has the GLH will have an advantage. That is, until we take it away!

Could we be truly isolated needing Astronomy just to meet the AI? That would/might change our plans but we must consider that option.

Or, maybe the AI are right nearby, expanding towards us. That would be quite a different game than isolation.

The Dude Esq said:
Ed Ed: we don't get an extra hill moving (dah), so I now say settle in place. And I like the idea the idea of two cities on our island.

Right on! Besides, we don't know if there is a seafood goodie in the one fogged square. Perhaps we are realizing SIP as the best choice. Could we make this our first decision? Post your thoughts, then we could settle, move the warrior and post a demographic.
 
Before I miss the chance, Welcome to everyone, :goodjob: - Ninjas, Musketeers and fellow dynamite team mates! I hope we all have a great game and a satisfying experience.

If you want to know a little of my Civ background, I, like justJohn was a chess player. After reading that life was too short for chess, :rolleyes: I found Civ 2 and was immediately hooked. By Civ 3, I joined my first SGOTM with Team tao. In the second year, we won gold in our division! It was a very exhilarating experience for everyone on the team, a perpetual smile that lasted all day. :D For me, it was doubly exciting. Our results and thread are here:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/...=score&enddate=1200&startdate=-4000#main_form
 
One of the things I hope to learn is World Builder. WB is a super tool for SGOTM. Unless you know the code, this is the best way to explore options. My first attempts were pretty bad mainly because you have to get the starting parameters right. You can't go back and trade one civ for another, or change game speed. Is that correct, fiz?

If there are others who would like to build maps and create scenarios, this SGOTM is a good place to learn. There is a WB manual here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=132800

What would be very cool is to have several 'flavours' of AI opponents and situations, like isolation and/or a squeezed start surrounded by AI. Fizbankovi's latest save is very good (the north tile to the west should be a grass hill, though). To change that, in game, just go to the options menu beside the Civilopedia and choose Enter World Builder. Choose the icon for Map Mode, choose Terrains tab on the left, highlite the upper left icon for grassland, and click on the target tile.

Voila! The Plains Hill is now a Grass Hill. Exit WB (top right icon) and save the corrected game.:)
 
Hi again, and sorry it's been several days since my last post. Too many days considering we're about to start playing, but I'm having a lot to do IRL at the moment.

Keith asked some questions that I'll give comments to:

Opening Strategy:

1. We need to figure out what the expert play is, quick expansion (REX)? Exploration? Stonehenge for city border pops and extra happy face?? Religion? Oracle for free tech? We should leave no stone unturned.

The way I see it, if you want a "HOF level start", there is two paths to go. Either a) you rush a neighbour early (f.ex. with Axemen), or b) you expand fast and go for a tech lead. Personally I mostly do b), and in this setting, a) seems difficult to pull off anyway.

My suggestion is b). If going for b), I have a couple of thought I want to share. The first one concerns settling in place. On an Archi type map, it is much more important to settle other islands that reserving room for another city on our starting island. Remember that trade routes get a "+100% other continent bonus". On the standard Archipelago map, every island counts as it's own continent, which means we want to settle different island. Trade routes will start at +2 with own cities, and at +3 with foreign cities. It is possible that "other continent" could mean something different in a user-changed map, that I don't now. Maybe we should test that just to be sure.

To me it is not important to fit another city on our starting island. What counts is how fast we can expand beyond our starting island.

Also, if going for b), I think we should go for a tech lead. On Emperor this means an early Alphabet. How early is up to us to figure out. If the choice was up to me, I would even skip BW and simply trade for it instead. As I see it, the usefullness of BW on a map like this, is not Copper/Axes, but Slavery, which we will use obviously. But we have to calculate the production gain of Slavery versus the amount of time it sets back Alphabet. Of course, if going for Alphabet before BW, then BW is (one of) the first techs we will trade for, at which point we will switch to Slavery. To me the question about skipping BW or not boils down to how fast we can get to Alphabet and meet the AI. I've played many successfull Archi games skipping BW (and even Sailing), but this seems like a "new" idea in this thread.

Of course, if it turns out we need Optics to meet our rival AIs, then an early Alphabet is not the right choice. If the map is a modified Archi map (giving the AIs more land) with Tiny islands (would fit what we see), then it is usually possible to navigate without Optics. In any case, Alphabet leads to Currency, which we want anyway due to favorable Trade routes.

2. Is there a 'killer wonder' we should get? It is Emperor level so we should be able to get a wonder or two if we want.

Stonehenge is not bad, but I wouldn't go for it early. Early it is more important for us to expand, imo. After all, apart for +1 happy in our capital, the main use of Stonehenge is combined with other cities. Of course, the AI might prioritize it and take it from us, but it's not a big loss.

Oracle is always nice if we can get something good for it, but not something I would plan from the get go. It depends too much how the game unfolds.

Colossus is probably a good choice, but to say for sure, we need to see more of surrounding area.

Great Library, Hanging Gardens and other standard wonders are things we should come back to.

3. Is being first to circumnavigate the world a game breaker? One extra ship movement is huge!

Not a game breaker, so I wouldn't normally send out my first WB (early growth is more important), but we do need some WBs exploring.

4. Besides a beeline to Astronomy, what techs do we need to research?

My suggestion (with or without Sailing/BW or both):

Fishing - Mining - (BW) - Sailing - Pottery - Writing - Alphabet - (Mathematics) - Currency

This assumes settling in place or on PH and building Worker first and then WB.

5. I hope you all agree that we don't want to build anything that is not essential - always the minimum that will work. Why have six, when two will do?

Which is why I would not build Barracks or Warriors early. I don't see any early wars coming, and we want to save our production and unit upkeep for civilian units (WBs, Workers, Settlers) early.
 
Seems I forgot some issues. :p

I still think I would prefer settling on the PH, but it is no longer an obvious choice (after seeing the Warrior move). The obvious reason is ofc the extra production in the city center (which will give more than the production lost from the chop, but the lower health early on is a valid point). But another reason for me is that I would prefer to put a city on the two-tile island with the other clam. On Archi-type maps with tiny islands I usually play by the "one city per island"-rule. Such close cities that have growth potential is a big economical plus, even without the Great Lighthouse.

In fact, this choice influences some of the things I write in my previous post. If SIP, then there is no point in researching Mining unless we also get BW. Skipping BW only makes sense if settling on the PH in which case we would have two hills to mine early. But I admit that whereever we settle, including BW is a safer choice than skipping it.

-jj-
 
Seems I forgot some issues. :p

I still think I would prefer settling on the PH, but it is no longer an obvious choice (after seeing the Warrior move). The obvious reason is ofc the extra production in the city center (which will give more than the production lost from the chop, but the lower health early on is a valid point). But another reason for me is that I would prefer to put a city on the two-tile island with the other clam. On Archi-type maps with tiny islands I usually play by the "one city per island"-rule. Such close cities that have growth potential is a big economical plus, even without the Great Lighthouse.

In fact, this choice influences some of the things I write in my previous post. If SIP, then there is no point in researching Mining unless we also get BW. Skipping BW only makes sense if settling on the PH in which case we would have two hills to mine early. But I admit that whereever we settle, including BW is a safer choice than skipping it.

-jj-

^^ It is great to have someone with your experience playing this islands game. What you say is worth considering. I've been trying SIP with settler first. Maybe on the corn is an option if we're not going for early circumnavigation and want only one island city.

At least by having 2 island cities we make full use of what the island offers. If we settle in place, a second city on the island might depend on what food there is in the fogged sea tile. But even without extra food, tests will show that the two cities can cooperate using the unimproved tiles and maybe the extra city is worth the build. :hmm:

Settling a second city on the western islands along with the extra trade is a good choice, too. How much extra trade from island cities?

We have many avenues to explore. :coffee: More testing....
 
sending the 4th wb to explore is neatly aligned with the time we kinda get writing. that means we can open boarders with the first ai we meat. (thats +2 coins/trade routes a turn from the longer trade routes.)

i tried the
PArtial build worker
build WB
Finish partial worker
Wb
Settler
wb
LH
build, and it was awesome. (i got the second city up and running by 2400BC) SIP+ a city on the grassland hill can swap their tiles back and forth and really make the most out of our huge food pool. i am definitely voting for this approach.

Can we make a vote on SIP? And first build worker/baracks until fishing. So at least we can play to turn 1, or maybe 7? trust me, even if this is not the most perfect start, by no means will SIP worker first give us a big disadvantage.
 
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