The End of Tibet?

Uiler

Emperor
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
1,849
http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=5323376

Basically, the Dalai Lama is 70 years old. It is very possible he will die soon. The key issues:

- In China, Tibetans are increasingly being assimilated into the Han Chinese culture. They cite for example a 12 year old girl whose mother sent her to India who can speak no Tibetan but fluent Chinese.
- Also with the new railroad, it is likely that Tibetans, already minorities in the city regions will be swamped by Han Chinese.
- In India, the education Tibetan youths get in their culture and language is extremely poor so they are getting increasingly assimilated into Indian culture. Many young Tibetans are getting increasingly less enthusiastic about going back to Tibet anyway.

There must be a strong temptation to abandon Tibet as a lost dream and do as well as they can in the outside world. Dolma, a young Tibetan political-science student in Delhi, reckons that, if they had the chance to go back to a free Tibet tomorrow, half the young Tibetans in India would prefer to stay put.

The Dalai Lama, while not admitting to this, does admit that *one* (I stress one, as many still make the trip for religious reasons or to maintain their culture) of the reasons why young Tibetans might be making the trip to India is because they think it's easier to get to the US that way.
- The Dalai Lama's rule and the absolute loyalty Tibetans feel for him personally (I don't mean in terms of crude power, but rather his charismatic personality) means that many political divisions amongst Tibetans in exile are being papered over. It is extremely doubtful that any successor will be able to command the same sort of loyalty and mass acceptance as the current Dalai Lama. In my opinion, this is assuming that the exiled Tibetans can even agree on a successor. Economist cites the example of the 17th Karmapa where they are multiple claimants amongst exiled Tibetans for the title. Also China may try to impose their own Dalai Lama as they control both Panchen Lama who is traditionally the senior cleric most involved in identifying the next Dalai Lama. In short, the death of the current Dalai Lama could split the Tibetan opposition groups asunder.

Second, as the Dalai Lama himself puts it in an interview with your correspondent, is the fact that “my death would be a serious setback.” This sounds odd from an incarnation of Avalokiteshwara, the Buddha of Compassion. It is also an understatement. Lobsang Nyandak Zayul, a minister in the exile government the Dalai Lama heads in Dharamsala, is starker: “There will be chaos. We really are scared.”


- Another problem with the Dalai Lama's death is that exiled Tibetans rely too much on the Dalai Lama and have not learnt how to rely on themselves.

Most exiles in India, however—some 100,000 of them—are there for the long haul. Tsultrim Dorgee Chunang, general secretary of the Tibetan Youth Congress (TYC), loyally puts the Dalai Lama's lifespan at 110. Even so, he argues, Tibetans should be preparing for life without him, but are not. The Dalai Lama himself has, in his way, done his bit to prepare them. He has imposed a sort of democracy. There is a largely elected, 46-member, parliament and, since 2001, a directly elected prime minister.

However, there is something in Mr Chunang's charge that many exiled Tibetans refuse to take responsibility for their own futures because they rely on the Dalai Lama. The Tibetan Women's Association, for example, went through a protracted debate over its stand on the Dalai Lama's proposal of a “middle way” short of full independence. The conclusion was to follow the Dalai Lama, whatever his position may be.

- Another factor that is touched upon is, with China's increasing power, fewer countries are willing to help Tibetans. Nepal is trying to shut down the transit routes used by Tibetans to travel to India. India has essentially put the Karmapa who fled from Tibet under house arrest for fear of antagonising China.

Of course, all is not rosy for China with the Dalai Lama's death. There are factions amongst Tibetan exiles who want to use violence against the Chinese (read, 'terrorism') and have only been kept in check by their respect for the Dalai Lama. With his death, all bets are off and it is likely that China will have Tibetan terrorists attacking it.

However, in my opinion, this may not necessarily be good for Tibetans either. With the war on terror in America it will be very difficult for America or other Western countries to support the Tibetans without looking like rank hypocrites, esp. if the Tibetans appear to be religiously inspired as well. See the fuss that was made when a man accused of terrorist activities in Cuba saught asylum in the US. They may also lose their celebrity backers. It's one thing for the New Age guys to support peace-loving new age Buddhist harmony and peaceful struggle. It's another thing for Richard Gere to support blowing up Chinese civilians. It will probably give an excuse for China to crack down heavily on any Tibetan dissidents (whether violent or not) and give it the lleverage to demand that India do something about the exiled groups in its terroritory - India has a terrorist problem too involving a disputed territory so if it refuses iit will appear to be a hypocrite. Hell, India might be *happy* to crack down on the Tibetans given an excuse. What use are they to India? Good relations with China might be seen to be more beneficial to their country.
 
Well Tibet is a sad story but it least likely that anything is going to happen radically to help Tibetians. There are too many connections with China among the world powers so they least likely try to do something about it. The only hope is that after some time China will give itself some special status to Tibet or try to revive its culture. However when this happens is unknown and is way in the future.
 
An interesting and comprehensive analysis of the circumstances. Certainly it looks as if Tibet will be assimilated due to demography and a splintering of opposition. The only thing that violent resistance would accomplish would be to hasten the assimilation and lead to heavy reprisals.
 
Tibet is certainly in trouble. There's absolutely no way that the international community is going to put any real pressure on China. Tibet's only hope may lie in an accomodation with China. As I understand it Mongolian culture and language is afforded considerable protection in Inner Mongolia after what had been a serious decline. This isn't going to happen if a major insurrection starts though.
 
Colonel_here said:
Well Tibet is a sad story but it least likely that anything is going to happen radically to help Tibetians. There are too many connections with China among the world powers so they least likely try to do something about it. The only hope is that after some time China will give itself some special status to Tibet or try to revive its culture. However when this happens is unknown and is way in the future.

That won't happen . The Chinese want to destroy the Tibetans . It's racial .

As usual , India offers shelter to the persecuted , the same way we did to the Persians , a long time ago , when the forces unleashed by Moahmmed forced them out of their home .

Soon , China will be as big a scourge to the world as Islam was to Europe , once upon a time . But nobody learns from history , do they ? It seems doomed to repeat itself .
 
aneeshm said:
That won't happen . The Chinese want to destroy the Tibetans . It's racial .

As usual , India offers shelter to the persecuted , the same way we did to the Persians , a long time ago , when the forces unleashed by Moahmmed forced them out of their home .

Soon , China will be as big a scourge to the world as Islam was to Europe , once upon a time . But nobody learns from history , do they ? It seems doomed to repeat itself .
India's government policies are no longer critical of China, instead they have been better than ever. India can proceed to shelter Tibetians but that won't help to get Tibet its independence.
 
aneeshm said:
That won't happen . The Chinese want to destroy the Tibetans . It's racial .

As usual , India offers shelter to the persecuted , the same way we did to the Persians , a long time ago , when the forces unleashed by Moahmmed forced them out of their home .

Soon , China will be as big a scourge to the world as Islam was to Europe , once upon a time . But nobody learns from history , do they ? It seems doomed to repeat itself .

I feel that you are just one bitter Indian, jealous of China's new position as a world power, while your country is still left in the 3rd world.

But let's face, cultures get destroyed everyday. Did the white americans not destroy the culture of the native people? heck, we didn't just destroy their culture, we slaughtered the whole population. This world is a vile ocean, where large fish eats little fishes. If you don't like it, go piss off.
 
Tibet is insignificant and should be sacafriced to improve Sino-Indian relations if nessecary.
Also Tibet is more developed and better off under China than it was under the medevial and oppressive rule of the Lama's.

Tibet wil eventually be assimilated into China however if nessecary in the case of conflict with China, India could always stir dicontent and rebellion in Tibet using the SFF, and the Tibetan Government in exile in Darhahmarsala.
 
Well, I'd never thought of Dalai Lama's supporters using terrorism, they're rather peaceful disfidents. And China doesn't seem to demand India jail those disfidents.

My worry is on Tibetian economy, AFAIK, Tibetian economy is fully dependent on Beijing's aid, if there're accidents that could weaken the aid, Tibet will be the battlefield between Chinese and Tibetians, and lead to genocidal massacre on Tibetians, which could be very, very terrible.
 
Well, I'd never thought of Dalai Lama's supporters using terrorism, they're rather peaceful disfidents. And China doesn't seem to demand India jail those disfidents.

Lama Todgen is a supporter of violent force as is the younger generation. However Lama Todgen is currently rotting in a Chinese gaol so.....
 
silver 2039 said:
Also Tibet is more developed and better off under China than it was under the medevial and oppressive rule of the Lama's.
Im sure the British said the same when they conquered your nation...
 
I don't think this will be the end of Tibet. Also, if the Dalai Lama dies, they will seek a new one. Also, 70 isn't that old, I have relatives that are upwards of 85 years old and they are still going strong. A people can never be totally assimilated, ones parent culture will always show up in one form or another, and in varying strengths.
 
Hasn't every group of people around China invaded China at some point or other :lol:

Enkidu Warrior said:
It's somewhat ironic that many people can't imagine Tibetans resorting to force given Tibet's history of invading China.
 
Dida said:
I feel that you are just one bitter Indian, jealous of China's new position as a world power, while your country is still left in the 3rd world.


Hardly bitter or jealous . I'd rather live in a place which gives me democratic rights , and the rights to free speech and the right to hold and propagate a dissenting opinion . Their position at the top is precarious and unsustainable . The first signs are there - the retirement crisis , for one ( in about ten to twenty years , one working Chinese will support between three to four retirees ) . But I do dislike the Chinese government . They're a very devious and untrustworthy lot . Chinese people are nice enough , though .


And trust me when I say this - democracy will always win when facing a Communist dictatorship ( USA vs. USSR , upcoming India vs. China ) . That's because Communism needs to be omniscient to be successful , while democracy doesn't .
 
silver 2039 said:
Lama Todgen is a supporter of violent force as is the younger generation. However Lama Todgen is currently rotting in a Chinese gaol so.....

They threw the Lama in jail?!?! That is asinine beyond words!!! That's like locking up the Pope, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense (though I in no way agree with his ideas or beliefs). Yea, I might be a little bitter and have a call to arms if a neighboring country invaded my country, killed my people, burned most of my temples, tortured my people, threw them in jail, and on top of all that, threw me in jail. Call me crazy but I'd be a little pissed too.

Tibet has my support for its independence.
 
Tibet needs its independence as the centre of Buddist faith that is now under control of atheistic government.
However it is least likely is going to happen.
As for choosing the new Dalai Lama the Chinese could jail the new one as they did with Panchen Lama. Pachen Lama will be the one who'll choose the next Dalai Lama.
Tibetians before indroduction of Buddism were aggressive and sieged and took various cities along silk root. They are also responsible for bringing down one of the chinese dynasties.
 
silver 2039 said:
Tibet is insignificant and should be sacafriced to improve Sino-Indian relations if nessecary.
Also Tibet is more developed and better off under China than it was under the medevial and oppressive rule of the Lama's.
I would concur. As much as I dislike the dictatorship in Beijing, it was better than the Dalai Lama's rule. It annoys me that Buddhist theocracies like old feudal Tibet and Bhutan) are praised as a Shangri-La. Everybody forget they were theocracies, like Puritan England or modern Iran.
 
Tibet has been a lost cause for ages, the Chinise campaign of genocide (by assimilation, moving their population, etc) has been a sucess
 
Top Bottom