Not in terms of effect, but in terms of how impractical the requirement is. Barracks' are not like Monuments, Universities, or Oprah Houses; the provide no passive yields and their benefits are entirely dependent on how many military units the city produces. It is unreasonable to assume that I would want a Barracks in every city because I will not use every city to build military units, only the ones with the highest production.
Is the Heroic Epic the worst national wonder?
- Thread starter Snes
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You are quite correct. I almost never build the Heroic Epic for that very reason.
However, now with the the ability to import production to your newer fledgeling cities with the new trade route system in BNW, it might be more attractive to construct barracks in each city.
However, now with the the ability to import production to your newer fledgeling cities with the new trade route system in BNW, it might be more attractive to construct barracks in each city.
PhilBowles
Deity
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It's certainly the hardest to use, however it was presumably designed with the intent that it would be most helpful to warmongers, who may not build many cities (maybe even just one) and would expand by conquering. It would, for instance, be good for a Venetian player.
As an early building that, in BNW, contains a Great Writing slot, it is of marginal use in that regard.
National Intelligence Agency would be number 2 on the list for a similar reason - if the requirement was for constabularies, it may just be justifiable, but enemy spies almost always focus on the capital, or if not in only one or two major cities, and needing a full set of level 2 security buildings is not feasible.
On HE, a lot depends upon WHEN you want to build your army. It's at a bad timing for those wanting to build the first melee line, horse line, or archer line units and upgrade those.
But if you're really after building Privateers; there is plenty of time to build 4 cities, build a Barracks in each, and an Armory & HE before building the first one. (Of course you generally want to scrap those surplus barracks in cities that won't see a military unit after completing.)
On the NIA, it's the only thing that in G&K finally brings spy stealing down to a reasonable rate. But it appears based on the help text that you actually need to build it in some city other than your capital.
But if you're really after building Privateers; there is plenty of time to build 4 cities, build a Barracks in each, and an Armory & HE before building the first one. (Of course you generally want to scrap those surplus barracks in cities that won't see a military unit after completing.)
On the NIA, it's the only thing that in G&K finally brings spy stealing down to a reasonable rate. But it appears based on the help text that you actually need to build it in some city other than your capital.
Unresolved
King
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NIA is the worst national wonder. The Heroic Epic at least empowers your units and barracks give 15 experience to each built unit. Constabularies are largely a waste of production to build, even in your capital.
MerchantCo
Merchant
But otherwise, it's a waste of gold and building maintenance. It needs a good buff.
Socratatus
Emperor
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Why is it unreasonable? Not everyone uses the same methods as you. I for one, use every city I got when I need military units.
Venetian Legion
Chieftain
Maybe the Heroic Epic could be triggered after the first generation of a Great General or Admiral, and could only be built in a city with a barracks? I agree that building barracks in every city is generally impractical.
I had thought something similar, where the ability to build the Epic was earned through the same points system that you acquire Great Generals OR by conquering cities. The required number of GG points earned and cities earned increases based on your civilization era. You still need a Barracks in the city.
azzaman333
meh
It's a good wonder, but rather situational.
JanghanHong
Enrico Trololo
being able to build NIA and Heroic epic is one of many perks of playing as Venice, good thing morale applies to the great galeasses too.
Falconiano
Prince
If you're going Domination victory you should build it ASAP and always.
Sure your first 7-8 archers don't get the benefits, but those will end up in garrisons anyways.
All the subsequent artillery, naval, horses etc all get it.
It takes so little time to produce that I'd feel bad for not making it.
Sure your first 7-8 archers don't get the benefits, but those will end up in garrisons anyways.
All the subsequent artillery, naval, horses etc all get it.
It takes so little time to produce that I'd feel bad for not making it.
Gyra Solune
King
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If you're playing as a warmongering civ, then you definitely want the Heroic Epic post-haste. Put work into Great Library, go down Bronze Working and use your free tech for Iron Working, and then you've got a good setup for pumping out powerful units. It's impractical if you ICS, but then all National Wonders are if you do that. Ideally you want about 4-5 cities at most early-game, and punch out Barracks in them before the GL completes.
I really cant understand how you chaps can produce the military hardware needed for a domination game with only one city. The military requirements are enormous...Then again I assume most are playing Pangea with a lot of re-rolls for good starts.
I settle at least three cities before I start my world conquest and setup barracks and all military buildings on all of them since from a certain point in time they will be producing the necessary cannon fodder. The heroic epic is one good military line wonder when you need hardy troops, the only problem I usually have is that it is on the rear lines during middle game so I usually produce/rush buy stuff in far off annexed cities.
I settle at least three cities before I start my world conquest and setup barracks and all military buildings on all of them since from a certain point in time they will be producing the necessary cannon fodder. The heroic epic is one good military line wonder when you need hardy troops, the only problem I usually have is that it is on the rear lines during middle game so I usually produce/rush buy stuff in far off annexed cities.
Ryoga
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Too be honest the Heroic Epic is only particularly useful with artillery, naval units and aircrafts. So you don't really need it as fast as possible, and you can build barracks in your cities once your economy and production are so strong that their presence will hardly have an impact in your plans.
As a conquering civ you should have most of your cities as puppets anyway, and yes the hammer cost will increase regardless, but you want to build it on a highly productive city anyway and it will hardly take you more than 5-8 turns. Still less that it would have took if you built it earlier with an undeveloped city.
As a conquering civ you should have most of your cities as puppets anyway, and yes the hammer cost will increase regardless, but you want to build it on a highly productive city anyway and it will hardly take you more than 5-8 turns. Still less that it would have took if you built it earlier with an undeveloped city.
NIA is overrated for some people and it's understandable, but i find good value in it in games where i have the money to rush some constabularies and police stations. this is b/c when you do get the NIA, that's at least one extra spy to send to a CS. and usually i feel comfortable with sending 2 or maybe 3 to CS's after building it. this helps keep your opponents in check in a diplo situation and is generally nice.
just like i've heard some people scoff at England getting that extra spy when in my mind that's fairly huge just for the CS action alone.
just like i've heard some people scoff at England getting that extra spy when in my mind that's fairly huge just for the CS action alone.
The boost from the MIA is very very strong and perhaps critical. I very much like the way that they've approached National Wonders. I wouldn't change a thing.
A small civ will get almost all national wonders, cause with good production they'd each take 2-3 turns to accomplish and are really really good. Your capitol is gonna stay your main production city pretty much no matter how you play so having the heroic epic there is pretty fine imo.
A small civ will get almost all national wonders, cause with good production they'd each take 2-3 turns to accomplish and are really really good. Your capitol is gonna stay your main production city pretty much no matter how you play so having the heroic epic there is pretty fine imo.
Having just finished my first game in BNW I can tell you this: I got stolen only two times around in the medieval era, and I had Monty of all, to coup my CS around 10 times in the whole game. I build the NIA because I wanted to sent my spy as diplomat to spread some more tourism to the final capital. Vs the AI spies now get a backseat, vs Humans though they can still prove critical.
MantaRevan
Emperor
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This. If you're hard lining military conquest, bulb iron working from the library before you settle a second city. This is particularly useful for Russia or the Zulu who get barracks replacements, who want to have a barracks up ASAP anyway. Then build the HE and watch as every unit you build from that city for the rest of the game gets a huge combat boost.
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