Wfy would Maria build the Great Mosque of Djenne?

householder

householder

Lord of the Fleas
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I am playing on a giant 43 civ TSL map, King difficulty, regular speed. On turn 121, I see a notice that Maria has built the Great Mosque of Djenne.

She has three cities, but no religious buildings. The turn before she finished the wonder, she had accumulated a grand total of four faith points. She had opened the Piety tree, but had gone no further. And all religions were taken as of turn 112.

So why would she build a wonder which makes her missionaries (for a religion she didn't found) able to spread three times instead of twice?

Okay, the wonder also grants three faith points per turn and a free mosque. Plus, owning a wonder gives her two faith points from the religion she is following. So sum total, she gets: 8 faith, three culture, 1 happiness and 1 Great Engineer point.

Is that worth the effort?
 
householder said:
I am playing on a giant 43 civ TSL map, King difficulty, regular speed. On turn 121, I see a notice that Maria has built the Great Mosque of Djenne.

She has three cities, but no religious buildings. The turn before she finished the wonder, she had accumulated a grand total of four faith points. She had opened the Piety tree, but had gone no further. And all religions were taken as of turn 112.

So why would she build a wonder which makes her missionaries (for a religion she didn't found) able to spread three times instead of twice?

Okay, the wonder also grants three faith points per turn and a free mosque. Plus, owning a wonder gives her two faith points from the religion she is following. So sum total, she gets: 8 faith, three culture, 1 happiness and 1 Great Engineer point.

Is that worth the effort?
Click to expand...
She did it because she's an AI, and that means it will sometimes prioritize building things that players wouldn't. That's the simple answer.

At any rate, if you like your religion, there's no reason not to ensure that other civ's can't take it from you by spamming missionaries and prophets.
 
A. Wonders = points

B. Because she can.

C. It stops anyone else getting and using it.

I'd like to think the AI is tactically smart about C, but it isn't. The AI will hoover up wonders whether it fits their strategy or not.
 
Sometimes I build wonders just to keep other civs from getting them.

I built Petra a few times back in G&K in a city that had maybe two desert tiles. Figured it was better than letting it go to a civ that might get seriously strong from it. (Now in BNW I might build it just for the trade route.)
 
There are plenty of human players who build wonders that they don't really need, just because they can. I myself have been guilty of that. So I don't see what is wrong with Maria doing what the average human player might do.

That said, it is not entirely clear-cut that building the Great Mosque is unnecessary. I try to build every wonder I can because with the right beliefs and WC resolutions, each wonder gives you +2 faith and +2 culture out of the gate. The culture from wonders can also be converted into tourism in the late game. Those are useful benefits regardless of the wonder's own specific effects.
 
1st: Austria is a religion focus civ.
2nd: because its available to be built.
3rd: So that you will convert her city and make use of the Great Mosque of Djenne.
4th: probably, she just want to mess your game.
 
knightmare13 said:
1st: Austria is a religion focus civ.
2nd: because its available to be built.
3rd: So that you will convert her city and make use of the Great Mosque of Djenne.
4th: probably, she just want to mess your game.
Click to expand...

Key point #3, you can spread other religions and you'll have more. Why? She doesn't benefit from Founder? It adds diplomacy factors and weakens an enemy who founded a religion.
 
Luziadus said:
which maria you are refering?
Click to expand...

The real Maria, the original, Maria the First. Accept no imitations (such as that Austrian upstart.)

I am glad she built the Great Mosque, since she shares my religion, and since I had no intention of opening Piety. I just assumed she would have more important things to build than a wonder which is only of marginal benefit to her. I guess I should watch to see if she plans on going further up the Piety tree. Maybe she is investing in faith points to buy Great Persons?
 
Ironically, I asked the same question of Ramesses in my own game. He had founded Islam and, with start bias and of course Desert Folklore, was spamming missionaries left and right. I had my own religion and was sick of watching his spread like the plague, so I declared war. My city-state ally bordering him captured literally about 9 missionaries by my count, and I captured maybe 6 more. As I was going through his cities and converting them with my prophet, I had my eye on one last city: Memphis, which had Petra. I saw an Egyptian Great Engineer and moved to capture it, but then thought better of it. I put Memphis under siege and was one turn from capturing it, when...

(Wonder notification sound which I usually hate) The Great Mosque of Djenne has been built in Memphis.

Gee, thanks Ramesses!

It's a good thing I declared war. With all those missionaries, Desert Folklore and Great Mosque, it would've been just a matter of time before the whole world was his religion.
 
fyar said:
Ironically, I asked the same question of Ramesses in my own game. He had founded Islam and, with start bias and of course Desert Folklore, was spamming missionaries left and right. I had my own religion and was sick of watching his spread like the plague, so I declared war. My city-state ally bordering him captured literally about 9 missionaries by my count, and I captured maybe 6 more. As I was going through his cities and converting them with my prophet, I had my eye on one last city: Memphis, which had Petra. I saw an Egyptian Great Engineer and moved to capture it, but then thought better of it. I put Memphis under siege and was one turn from capturing it, when...

(Wonder notification sound which I usually hate) The Great Mosque of Djenne has been built in Memphis.

Gee, thanks Ramesses!

It's a good thing I declared war. With all those missionaries, Desert Folklore and Great Mosque, it would've been just a matter of time before the whole world was his religion.
Click to expand...

If you take the "get the pantheon from the second most popular" social policy, you'll have a powerful religious base.
 
JanghanHong said:
If you take the "get the pantheon from the second most popular" social policy, you'll have a powerful religious base.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did think of that. I took Goddess of Festivals because I had 7 wines. He has Desert Folklore but the cities I captured also had 5 incense, which also get the +1 culture/faith from Goddess of Festivals. So this is one of those rare cases where Free Religion is EXTREMELY powerful. By converting his cities I can also build monasteries in them.

With both pantheons and a just-purchased monastery, a flood plains with incense is giving me 2 :c5food:, 3 :c5gold:, 2 :c5culture:, 3 :c5faith:. When Memphis gets a monastery, with Petra those 2 desert incense will each yield 1 :c5food:, 1 :c5production:, 3 :c5gold:, 2 :c5culture:, 3 :c5faith:. It's just too bad neither one is on a hill! :D
 
Yes its odd, in a recent game Ahmad Al-Mansur built the Great Mosque along with Hagia Sofia after all religions had been founded. He also built Petra in a junk city with one desert tile :hammer2::hammer2:
 
ChrisTheMean said:
Yes its odd, in a recent game Ahmad Al-Mansur built the Great Mosque along with Hagia Sofia after all religions had been founded. He also built Petra in a junk city with one desert tile :hammer2::hammer2:
Click to expand...

I've had that happen 2 games ago. Morocco built Petra... The strange thing? They built it in their 2nd (or 3rd) city, which only desert tile was underneath the city, while their capital had 2 or 3 spots that was not desert not including the floodplains of which I can't remember how many there was.

Oh well, at least he got the trade route, right ?
 
8 FPT and 3 CPT is quite a lot actually. Over the course of the game that will give you a GP and aditional SP. There are way worse wonders that can be built tbh ...
 
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