Worrying review: Tom Chick says AI and Diplomacy are dumb. Has "Serious Problems"

Diplomacy in Civ games has always been a bit wonky IMO.

As for the AI I sure hope there isn't a problem. I don't think that just because one review mentioned it that means it is a non issue. Plenty of sites review Civ games but it is a complex game and IMO few put enough time into the game to discover the issues that the bigger fans will notice. Civ games often are made well enough to get high scores from the reviewers but I've found issues in the past that few if any reviewers mentioned.

As for the reviewer himself I'm not familiar with this dude either. However, I'll give more weight to the opinion of someone who has spent some time with the game and written up a proper review as opposed to some folks who haven't spent a minute with the game and just make personal attacks in response to news they don't like.
 
PC Gamer review basically says the same thing. The AI has issues with warfare. I'm certainly not going to cancel my preorder. They did give the game a 93%, so must not be that big of a deal.
 
wapamingo said:
The community has voiced concerns over Diplomacy interface. Some fears have been allayed with the 2kGreg live gameplay (history of deals, current deals, etc.).

On the AI: we can only wait to see. AI is not easy to program as it will always have limits and will not be comparable to human - so join CIV5 MP community for the real thrill.
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I can't. My wife won't let me.

Several years ago when Call to Power came out with multiplayer I went through a month of MP binging. I would stay up for six hours playing a match online and be a zombie the next day. (Obviously, this was during a break in the school year.) It was indeed the "real thrill." (I wasn't too bad, either. I got up to 4th place on the global ladder. The only guy who beat me was some dude from Spain named "H." You out there, man? I'll come back to MP just to get revenge on you!) I've never been more addicted, but when I told my wife that Civ 3 was coming out soon and it was going to have multiplayer, she forbade me.

I'm pretty sure that injunction still holds.
 
This is why I play Multiplayer. Who needs AI when I have a person on the other side who can make these decisions? :)
 
padlock said:
Tom Chick is the same reviewer who bashed Deus Ex.

Ever since then, I don't put much stock in anything he has to say.
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Of course, he's also the guy who correctly pointed out that MOO3 sucked. I remember the serious bile directed at him on the MOO3 forums (much along the lines of the defensive posters here). Of course, then the game came out and sucked so badly that some of the most offensive posters just slunk away with tails between their legs (others just stayed in denial).

And where's the panic? He says its great. AI has always sucked. (And only Civ4 of the series is a real strategy game imo).
 
Abraxis said:
The man has played Aurora, I doubt he's had any problems with Civ5's interface.

And read the manual, it does not say anything about the AI getting any better with difficulty, it only mentions bonuses, there was a video review that stated this aswell.


The only one's saying AI improves with difficulty are the marketing reps, and can anyone really prove them wrong? no, it's an easy claim to make.
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There are a number of sources that say the AI improves at higher difficulties.

Also, there's been at least one reviewer who complained about having to manually hand count resources while dealing with diplomacy, but there are display options that count for you.
 
ilmonstre said:
on what difficulty level did he play the game to review it?

since it was said by firaxis that the higher the difficulty level the better the AI will be.

so if he is playing on a easy level then the AI could act dumb.
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In the PDF manual, it says that the AI gets bonuses to production and happiness above prince level. It also gets free units and tech.

Perhaps that is a way to cover up for a substandard AI by having it cheat.

Pretty disappointing to hear that the AI and diplomacy will not be good. The designers has been trumpeting how good these features would be. Sounds like they still have a lot of work to do.

I am happy to hear a respected game reviewer state that the emperor has no clothes rather than the general OMG! Organic! ciV! 9.5! cheerleader reviews.

It's good to have some balance. I've been saying for awhile that ciV will be good. I am not so sure it will be great. Maybe after a year or two of tweaking.
 
Mergle said:
Of course, he's also the guy who correctly pointed out that MOO3 sucked. I remember the serious bile directed at him on the MOO3 forums (much along the lines of the defensive posters here). Of course, then the game came out and sucked so badly that some of the most offensive posters just slunk away with tails between their legs (others just stayed in denial).

And where's the panic? He says its great. AI has always sucked. (And only Civ4 of the series is a real strategy game imo).
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I actually liked MOO3 after the modifications fixed the glaring problems, but in the beginning it was pretty f***ed up.

If the AI is even moderately good I'll be happy, this game is so much more complex now its not funny. You can always dial up the difficulty if the battle AI isnt tough enough.

I dont think the AI is so bad it cant win or anything like that, sure we would have heard by now... or would we... anyone remember Empire:total war? That AI was disgustingly passive at release. :eek:
 
@Thor

There are several X-factors with reviews...and who is to say that they wont make a last minute release day patch to deal with AI stuff?

Keep in mind that if an AI played like an actual human, at the middle of the road difficulties (prince) people would have serrious problems and no breathing room for error as the AI would not only be smart but, clever as well.
 
Bringa said:
As far as diplomacy goes, I don't expect anything more than what we had in Civ4, which is to say next to nothing. Civ4 is an amazing game that I've sunked literally hundreds and hundreds of hours into, and neither the lobotomized AI nor the anemic diplomacy has stopped me. Basically, all that preview is saying is "here are two areas where the game hasn't been improved".
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Civ4s diplomacy was a huge improvement from Civ3, and especially in higher levels essential element of the game.
 
The combat is more tactical so it is no wonder it is not great because it is harder to program A.I for,ala Totalwar.
 
Bringa said:
Ehm, not to be a troll or anything (and this has been said before but I'll just add my voice), but the AI in Civ4 was horrible. Like, lobotomized. If the AI in Civ5 is just "dumb", that's a huge step forward.
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QFT. ;)

At the same time, I would be hard pressed to come up with an example of a game of comparable complexity with better AI. (Maybe GalCiv 2? Not sure, didn't play it enough.)
 
Dude, seriously. Thats how it always has been. If you can program an AI that is as smart as a human, Stockholm is calling with the freaking Nobel prize. Thats why the AI cheats.
 
Wuddel said:
Dude, seriously. Thats how it always has been. If you can program an AI that is as smart as a human, Stockholm is calling with the freaking Nobel prize. Thats why the AI cheats.
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Of course. No one expects human level AI.

However, Firaxis and JS had been trumpeting how great the AI was and how it didn't need to cheat at all. Sounds like they were full of hot air.
 
Thormodr said:
Of course. No one expects human level AI.

However, Firaxis and JS had been trumpeting how great the AI was and how it didn't need to cheat at all. Sounds like they were full of hot air.
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I've heard this from almost every release of a strategy game ever and in all cases it turns out to be false. Not that the A.I. isn't "good" (to the standards of the time or w/e) but that it's "So good it won't even need to cheat!".

We're still a bit a ways from that level of technology.
 
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