Submarine Clarification

There is this small question going on in the patch thread and I wanted to extract it to find the correct answer.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=82608466

Vcutag's submarine is being attacked and the reason why is being disputed. Does anyone know the correct situation here?

1. My first response, the enemy has a submarine, nuclear sub, destroyer, or missile cruiser and has spotted the sub. Later that turn it is being attacked by other units.

This does not seem the case in this game. Ethiopia does not seem to be technologically advanced enough to build these units.

2. Someone suggested submarines are ALWAYS visible while in enemy territory. I am almost positive this is wrong. I have had subs in the middle of enemy territory untouched many times.

3. Another member suggested submarines can be spotted by any naval unit when it the sub is the the tile directly touching it. I think this is also incorrect, as I've had submarines encircled by enemy ships before, with no counter attack.

4.Studying the picture, the Ethiopian melee privateer attacks first. My new idea is the AI privateer luckily ended its turn (or passed into the submarines tile) which, though it can not see the sub, has spotted it. The AI is now alert to it and attacked with the ranged frigate.

The submarine is still "invisible" but the AI has on accident found its location. Next turn it will be hidden again.

5. Vcutag, did you have any mod's downloaded while playing that game?

6. Something we have missed?

Thanks everyone.

http://www.dndjunkie.com/civilopedia/UNIT_SUBMARINE.aspx

Invisible to all Units except Destroyers, Missile Cruisers and other Submarines, or until it attacks or is adjacent to another unit. Can cause major damage to other ships if they get into range without being seen.

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A tank can be attacked if it finds itself next to a spearman.

Thanks Whyidie. I guess I've always stopped reading immediately after the list of boats

Yeah, that got answered in another thread. IMO, it's a stupid exception to the rule that makes no sense. A frigate *should not* be able to attack a submarine, under any circumstances. Even when a sub attacks, it should be visible only while it's attacking, unless it's within the line of sight of one of the units that can detect its presence. I just assumed subs worked the same way in that regard as they did in Civ 4.

Buccaneer said:

A tank can be attacked if it finds itself next to a spearman.

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Yes, but a tank isn't supposed to be invisible to most units.

Are subs spotted by being adjacent to land units as well? How about embarked units?

Also I agree that subs should only be detected by destroyers, missile cruisers and other submarines, or by attacking. Being adjacent to another unit shouldn't matter.

Personally, I think a sub should be able to be in another Civ's waters unless it is directly adjacent to another unit or the coastline. If you get found out (seen) then you'll pay a major diplo hit....

Steve

Snerk said:

Are subs spotted by being adjacent to land units as well? How about embarked units?

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"Adjacent to another unit," no ifandorbuts. Had a sub adjacent to (only) a machine-gun yesterday: my sub was attacked by it.

You don't like it? Then keep your subs at a distance, and have other units in support range in case the enemy moves adjacent to you.

Seems a bit weird. Ideally subs should be a separate class of units, and should even be able to pass under enemy ships (and hide on the same tile as your own ships). Then they should be able to be seen:
-any time in range of an enemy destroyer/sub/whatever.
-with a certain chance (maybe 5-10%) if adjacent to an enemy ship
-with a greater chance (maybe 50%) if actually sitting on the same tile as an enemy ship.

If it's visible, a frigate should still be able to attack it (although it really should not do much damage to it). But it shouldn't be visible very often.

Anybody out there know enough to write this into a mod? This, and the lack of ability for bombers to fly recon missions are my two big pet peeves with Civ 5.