Barbarians & Animals

Do you USUALLY play FFh with Raging Barbarians selected?

  • Yes

    Votes: 57 49.1%

  • No

    Votes: 59 50.9%
  • Total voters
    116
Does anyone know if there is an adjustable setting for the minimum EXP you get from a battle? I don't like having an EXP cap when I'm swarmed by barbs, but I also don't like getting any EXP from a guaranteed win.

- Niilo
 
vorshlumpf said:
In my most recent game, I moved up to Monarch difficulty from Prince. Everything else is the same: Aggressive AI, Raging Barbs (of course!), Huge map (that is the biggest, right?) - Fantasy Realm style, Marathon, and 18 civs. I must add, though, that I take off the EXP cap for barbs so I'll typically get a few units above 100 EXP before my first civ-vs-civ war.

Anyway, with this latest game I was a bit dissappointed with the Barbs. Sure, it was pretty dicey at the beginning, but I just made sure my (small) perimeter was manned at all times and I rarely had a problem. I'm in the mid-game now, and the barbs have started to step it up a bit with axemen and chariots, but it's still not a problem for most of us (just for the weaker civs that are still around).

In all my games, I have yet to see anything stronger than a barb chariot :( so I'm surprised with the constant reports. This games looks like it'll last a bit longer, though, because of the difficulty level - so perhaps I'll see them later.

As for Orthus, in all of my games I've only met the lad personally on one occassion - and he was all alone. Every other time he's killed himself attacking some AI city. Oh, wait - I think that one meeting was in the original FfH, so I guess I shouldn't count that.

Stacks of up to 30? That would be a sight! The most I've seen was 4 on one tile . . .

- Niilo

P.S.: I can't wait until Acheron gets his wings. In my current game his city is surrounded by various civ's units, almost as if he's on display and they're selling popcorn.
Click to expand...


My last game featured many Tier 3 and 4 barb units such as Lizardmen Rangers, Assassins, Druids, and Beastmasters as well as Paladins, Inquisitors, Orc Macemen, Heavy Crossbowmen, and Eidolons.

My current game has only Tier 2 units so far with plenty of Worg Riders. I have not had any stacks of 30, but some with 15-20 have appeared - and I am playing only at Noble raging barbs.

In my last game, I actually had a Ranger hit 300+ XP because of getting 100
XP fighting barbs and then being at war with 4 civs. Many of my units were in the 200+ range. My greater werewolves ran out of available promotions. :(

I think by playing with 18 AI civs on a huge map, it makes it a little easier as far as the raging barbs are concerned. The barbs are spread out thinner. I select a huge map, but with only 9 AI civs. I think you get more action that way from the open spaces.
 
Ah, yes, that would make a large difference. Often a few of the 18 are wiped out early in the game (usually the dark elves...) but that still leaves a bunch.

- Niilo
 
How do barb units get promotions?

I know we have to get promotions through civics, buildings, wonders, but especially through combat. Spawned barb units right out of the box are coming at me with Combat V and other promotions. When it is a higher level unit like a Lizard Ranger this can be pretty troublesome.

We have to earn our promotions somehow, but the AI just gives them to spawned barbs?

A little frustrating sometimes...
 
Are you sure? They could have gotten experience from the tons of scouts AI civs send out.

Myself, in my no-AI games (just me and raging barbs on deity) I never saw any promotions on barbs (i was fairly careful about my units and didnt lose them often).
 
I agree. I haven't seen any indication of free promotios for barbs. I love it when I come across a spider that has several stars - tells me that he's fed well on AI explorers and/or 'protected' settlers :)

- Niilo

P.S.: Big kudos to the team for the spider unit. I love the concept and I love the artwork. The only thing missing is seeing it wrap up its victims in webbing :D
 
vorshlumpf said:
I agree. I haven't seen any indication of free promotios for barbs. I love it when I come across a spider that has several stars - tells me that he's fed well on AI explorers and/or 'protected' settlers :)

- Niilo

P.S.: Big kudos to the team for the spider unit. I love the concept and I love the artwork. The only thing missing is seeing it wrap up its victims in webbing :D
Click to expand...

You actually have Abman to thank for the concept. The very first deisgn contest was "Design a Unit" and baman won with the Giant Spider. Chalid modeled it and C.Roland skinned it (as well as providing some neat hell spider skins for later on).
 
vorshlumpf said:
I agree. I haven't seen any indication of free promotios for barbs. I love it when I come across a spider that has several stars - tells me that he's fed well on AI explorers and/or 'protected' settlers :)

- Niilo

P.S.: Big kudos to the team for the spider unit. I love the concept and I love the artwork. The only thing missing is seeing it wrap up its victims in webbing :D
Click to expand...

I am fighting Lizardman Rangers, Chariots and Worg Riders now. Some have Combat 3 promotions. They definitely are not getting it through combat as the only civs left are Charadon and Infernal (both with BAR trait) and me. When I see 'em, I kill 'em - I don't give them a chance for promotions. ;)
 
A very strange 'barb progression' in my latest game...

Goblins/Spearmen - Lizardmen - Chariots - Lizard Rangers

The Orc Axemen, Archers and Worg Riders have been skipped, although I am starting to see some of the latter now - strange after already throwing the more powerful Chariots at me in numbers.

Also, in this game I saw my very first Orc Longbowman!:)

It was rather early in the game (around yr. 700) and I sent my Hill Giants aka Moe, Larry, and Curly out with a Disciple/Medic unit to search and destroy the plentiful barb cities. Lo and behold, there was one being defended by a lone orc Longbowman!
 
I've had the longbowman phenomenon, too! In a single city - happened to be in a barb city I was eying for destruction. Despite playing the game for another 800 turns, I never saw another (my heart sure sank at the time since I thought there would be more where that came from).

And I've also noticed that chariots come in large numbers for a long time before worgs start to get used regularly (excluding any created from goblin/wolf joinings).

Before I gave up on my latest game (I was so far ahead my victory was inevitable, but it would have taken me at least another 100-150 turns to accomplish any of the victory conditions), I had actually seen all of the lizardmen units (as far as I know). That was nice to see. Didn't get anything funkier than a chariot, too (no royal guards for me).

- Niilo
 
Hmm, I forgot about that... I had an orc longbowman show up absurdly early in a game once (maybe turn 100). Never saw another one that game (or any other game for that matter). I assumed I'd screwed up my scenario map somehow, but I never found anything to explain him. Weird ;-)
 
On deity raging barbs (starting from Classical for tech, around year 70) there's always goblins, orc spearmen, lizardmen, orc axemen right from the beginning, then later on lizardmen rangers, worg riders, orc adepts, chariots (the 6 strength ones) in addition to the starter ones , and later on than that come lizardmen druids, assasins, and war chariots.

There's also always skeletons, animals, and giants, but i don't usually notice them as i don't spend much time outside my borders.
 
I've just had a Worg-Rider attack my settlement, it's turn 76.
I think this is very early for a normal speed game, I only had access to strenght 2 units, I was very lucky they attacked my city & didn't go destroying my lands.
 
chocmushroom said:
I've just had a Worg-Rider attack my settlement, it's turn 76.
I think this is very early for a normal speed game, I only had access to strenght 2 units, I was very lucky they attacked my city & didn't go destroying my lands.
Click to expand...

You know, this seems to happen every game. :rolleyes:

You get that single Worg Rider who usually tries to take out an improvement (if there is one) or is easily killed by a Warrior defender in your city. Fortunately, you do not see the Worg Riders in numbers until later.
 
So here's the body count for the casualties of my last game (mostly barbs):

Lizard Assassins: 121
Orc Axemen: 837
Chariots: 710
Worg Riders: 492
Lizardmen: 1,333
Mercenaries: 93
Lizard Rangers: 388
Goblins: 1,408
Orc Spearmen: 1,476

Yes, I won before the Tier 4 barb units came rolling out.

I used some trickery in this game to win.

As I mentioned before I was sucking wind as the only (Basium went down too) Civ without the BAR trait. Charadon and Hyborem were the only 2 AI civs left on a huge Fantasy Realm map. I was taking a real pounding by the bars and managed to survive only by getting Rangers and the Baron and his snarling band of werewolves.

I finally was able to spare a few defenders (greater werewolves) and sent them off with the Three Stoogers, er, the Hill Giants to bombard and wipe out Charadon. His civ's protection was a joke.

Infernal had at least 10 cities. Looking at the score I had about 600 and he had 800. We each would score a few pts. here and there. I had to take drastic measures as all the barbs were after me now.

Here's what I did keeping my friend the 50% pt premium rule in mind:

I chose the tech with the most turns to discover (Stirrups) and set my Research to 0%. Whew, 121 turns.

I set my now 4 cities to stagnant growth.

I kept fighting off the the barb attacks as I watched Hyborem's score grow. I still managed a few pts here and there (not sure how), but after about 100 turns, SUCCESS...the barbs poured into Hyborem's civ as he had exceeded the 50% pt premium.
 
I noticed something weird about the barbs. If you block all access to your city with decent defense units, then they won't come after your city anymore.
That is to say, if they can't make a direct path to any of your cities, they find someone else to attack (and units block their paths).
If you're surrounded by plains, this doesn't exactly happen often, but on Highlands maps if you only have a few passes into a valley that your city is in, and you place a couple archers (usually 1 is fine) at each of the entrances, then barbs will ignore you.

In my experiences though, i've always put them on hill forests, which gave them great defense so any barb seeing them prolly calculated the odds as too high to attack them (which they don't do for cities, cities they attack even if its futile - because they can pillage on the way and they hope to swarm it). It's weird though for sure, because i can have lets say 10 archers in my city, then move them all out to block access to my city, then barbs go after someone else.
 
Maybe that's related to the fact that when you use the move-to command, it tries to automatically avoid all units along the way. I sent some units across a path and wondered why they deviated, it was because there was a unit on the road.
 
Sureshot said:
I noticed something weird about the barbs. If you block all access to your city with decent defense units, then they won't come after your city anymore.
That is to say, if they can't make a direct path to any of your cities, they find someone else to attack (and units block their paths).
If you're surrounded by plains, this doesn't exactly happen often, but on Highlands maps if you only have a few passes into a valley that your city is in, and you place a couple archers (usually 1 is fine) at each of the entrances, then barbs will ignore you.

In my experiences though, i've always put them on hill forests, which gave them great defense so any barb seeing them prolly calculated the odds as too high to attack them (which they don't do for cities, cities they attack even if its futile - because they can pillage on the way and they hope to swarm it). It's weird though for sure, because i can have lets say 10 archers in my city, then move them all out to block access to my city, then barbs go after someone else.
Click to expand...


Yes, I agree and that is why city placement is so important. You really have to look ahead to where the barb invasion might come from. If you can control these chokepoints, then I have noticed that the barbs will back off somewhat, but they always seem to send a few units. Your strategy is a good one for raging barbs, and, as you said, it depends a great deal on the map and the location of your cities.
 
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